Does anyone else think Seattle won the trade?

[TwistedHusky]

Overrated is relative.

Would we have won without Wilson? No.
Would we have even gone to the SB with Matt Flynn instead? Of course not.
Would we have won in the past 5 years and been a consistent playoff participant without Wilson? Nope.
Most of the success came from Wilson.

Initially, Lynch and the LOB powered this team, and maybe another QB could have driven success here. But once the LOB folded, few other QBs could have succeeded and could have managed to make up for Carroll as Wilson did.

As for Seattle making the playoffs this year? That is hilarious. It IS possible. But the wheels have to fall off (literally...ie serious injuries) to 2 other teams in our division for that to happen. VERY unlikely. Far beyond improbable.

 

[scutterhawk]

That's odd, in 2015 Seahawks had 4th best offense in the NFL. That was the first time they actually let Russ cook.

2010 - ranked 23rd
2011- ranked 23rd
2012- ranked 9th (Wilson rookie year)
2013- ranked 8th
2014- ranked 10th
2015- ranked 4th (Lynch barely played)
2016- ranked 18th(Wilson was banged up that year w/ his ankle and his pectoral
2017- ranked 13th (Wilson had like 95% of the offense points, led in rushing too.
2018- ranked 6th Let Russ cook
2019- ranked 9th Let Russ cook
2020- ranked 8th Let Rus cook

Looking at the stats, having a top 10 offense in pretty much every season he played seem like your nitpicking.

And how many "One & Done's" INCLUDING "Let Russ Cook" in all those Play-offs.
In 2017, & him leading in the Rushing category, only points to the necessity of having a Running Attack to compliment his style of sandlot play, & help put him over the top.
Y'all have to admit that Wilson by himself, was not as effective as when he and Marshawn Lynch were working together & tearing Defenses up.
I mean like.."Pick Your Poison"

 

[toffee]

A team with great defense and overall good offense can go deep into playoff, those team did not need an elite QB or a QB playing at elite level. Nice to have but hardly must have, just see Jimmy and GOff:

	2021	2020	2019	2018
Jimmy	74.9 NFC champ	67.5 playoff	77.9 superbowl	62.6
Lock	60	63.5	58.1	-
Geno	73.9	62.2	-	-
Goff	60.7	71.4 playoff	72.4	85.5 superbowl
Rodgers	89.6 playoff	94.5 nfc champ	81.4 nfc champ	89

Based solely on PFF, it seems like a GOOD team can win with a QB playing above 70PFF, both Goff and Jimmy did it.

If Geno or Lock could play at PFF's 70+ grades, we just might do OK, which means if Geno could play a whole season at his last season's 73.9?

 

[keasley45]

And how many "One & Done's" INCLUDING "Let Russ Cook" in all those Play-offs.
In 2017, & him leading in the Rushing category, only points to the necessity of having a Running Attack to compliment his style of sandlot play, & help put him over the top.
Y'all have to admit that Wilson by himself, was not as effective as when he and Marshawn Lynch were working together & tearing Defenses up.
I mean like.."Pick Your Poison"

Exactly. This was the definition of a marriage between Pete and Russ. Pete managed the run through Cable early on and obviously the defense. Russ and Bevell and then Schotty and then Shane, ran the pass game.

The flaw in the 'Russ couldn't overcome Pete and got tired of it' narrative is that you can't escape the xs and os. You can run your win and you can pass to win. Most often, offenses that are balanced see the most sustained success for a myriad of reasons, one being that running protects a defense.

The flaw in this offense from the day Wilson suited up was running the plays as they were scripted, seeing the entire field from a standard drop, and reading defenses well enough to beat coverages and rushes. Literally everything else a qb could do, he did at a 11/10 level. Elite. But when that part of his game that he was good at was stopped... the other aspects of qb'ing weren't there to overcome the obstacles. So the only other tool you have is the side of thr ball that Pete wields. Run, and defense.

Put another, its like being given a sledgehammer and a scalpel to do a job. The sledgehammer is a powerful tool, but not overly nuanced. So, when you need nuance, you lean on the scalpel. But if the scalpel overall does a great job, but can't manage some of the finer responsibilities, and proves that it can't over a period, you either stop work, or go about getting the job done in a messier way with the tools at hand.

Is the hammer ideal? No. But it's disenguous for the guy wielding the scalpel to complain that his work isn't as beautiful as it could be when the reason the hammer, as boring as it is, was used in the first place was because the scalpel wasn't working.

And it's completely understandable to look at the job from the outside and wonder why the hell the job was done with a hammer when you had this scalpel that, from what's visible to the eye, does remarkable work.

You can't rely on a passing game that can't reliably run plays as called... or execute the finer details of a play that require vision, timing and anticipation. Those are the elements that allow guys like Brady to play into their 40s and Rodgers to single handedly win games at times. It's that nuance that moves the chains.

We haven't had that ability since Hass was here. That's nit my opinion. It's fact, save for the years Russ was manufacturing with his legs as much as his arm and keeping defenses off balance.

Pete brought the hammer. Russ brought the scalpel. You can get angry that we built was often dirty and not beautiful, but it got the job done. It wasn't Pete's fault that the hammer had to do the work the scalpel should have.

And as to the notion that that's just his philosophy. It is also just plain factual and proven by Pete in Seattle that even when you have a QB that can't function optimally in every setting, if you have a complete team and build it on something that relies on other aspects of the team and not just the qb, you can win championships.

That DOESNT mean you can't bring in a qb that CAN wield a more complete game. Just means there's more of a chance to succeed regardless.

 

[Own The West]

That's why he's on the team. In a season with an offseason to prep, in a scheme he was familiar with and a staff that helped him, this is what he looked like.

Everything changed after this season. What he's stepping into with the Hawks is similar to what he had then.

I love how compact his throwing motion is. Just to the ear, then a flick forward like throwing darts. He's got some zip too!

 

[toffee]

I love how compact his throwing motion is. Just to the ear, then a flick forward like throwing darts. He's got some zip too!

Hoping that he could be as good as JimmyG for this season, then improve further as years go by.

 

[olyfan63]

Roethlisberger was very much reliant on his escapability and ability to make plays on the run. He might not be as elusive as Russ, but their styles are pretty comparable IMO.

Big Ben did have a certain escapability, partly because of his size and strength, but I don't recall seeing any Roethlisberger scramble highlight reels. Got a link to that?

 

[Rosco]

Big Ben did have a certain escapability, partly because of his size and strength, but I don't recall seeing any Roethlisberger scramble highlight reels. Got a link to that?

Big Ben was a tank. He wasn’t a Elway by no means but he was nearly impossible to take down

 

[Dismas]

I think we did well.

The way I see it, if you fire the coach to keep a player, you poison the locker room.

Yhe next coach has to do a complete rebuild to get a unified locker room.

 

[BlueTalon]

I think we did well.

The way I see it, if you fire the coach to keep a player, you poison the locker room.

Yhe next coach has to do a complete rebuild to get a unified locker room.

You should have stopped after the first two sentences (with which I agree).
The last sentence makes no sense at all.

 

[jammerhawk]

Well the 9ers fans are more know for front running and brining up ancient history with their Chardonnay rather than being loud and proud for their team, noise upsets their karma.

 

[LeaveLynchAlone]

The reason I complain is because I am a fan.

In the many years I've read your posts, I have deduced that you complain because that is what you do.

You certainly have that right and take every opportunity to do so.

The funny thing about the incessant complaining with a blowhorn is that it is easy to dismiss every word from those who beat their persecution drum ad infinitum. You may even have a good point on occasion, but you've followed a path of complaining so long, even those points have a taint to them.

This is not only you of course - the complaining crew here never disappoints.

This season will be fun whatever the outcome of the individual games are or the season record is unless you belong to the complainers.

Competition is truly back and every week will provide great entertainment and fun as a direct result of the culture Pete Carroll has built in Seattle.

 

[pittpnthrs]

In the many years I've read your posts, I have deduced that you complain because that is what you do.

You certainly have that right and take every opportunity to do so.

The funny thing about the incessant complaining with a blowhorn is that it is easy to dismiss every word from those who beat their persecution drum ad infinitum. You may even have a good point on occasion, but you've followed a path of complaining so long, even those points have a taint to them.

This is not only you of course - the complaining crew here never disappoints.

This season will be fun whatever the outcome of the individual games are or the season record is unless you belong to the complainers.

Competition is truly back and every week will provide great entertainment and fun as a direct result of the culture Pete Carroll has built in Seattle.

I get it, but i've been saying Carroll has been the issue for years now and he continues to be the problem. Sure he built a monster of a team, but he squandered it even faster than he built it and there is next to zero chance that he'll build another one. Wilson masked so many of his shortcomings and now there isnt a Wilson to do that anymore.

I dont see how a season of 5 to 6 wins will be fun. Especially when it didnt have to be this way. The Seahawks will be fun again when they move onto the next chapter without Pete.

 

[Superbowl 48]

Seahawks won the Wilson trade in my opinion, no doubt about it, if we are just considering the actual transaction.



"The blockbuster deal sends from Denver to Seattle two first-round picks, No. 9 overall this year and a 2023 first-rounder; two second-round picks, No. 40 overall pick this year and a 2023 second-rounder, this year's fifth-round pick, tight end Noah Fant, quarterback Drew Lock and defensive end Shelby Harris. In addition to Wilson, the Seahawks will send a 2022 fourth-round pick to Denver."

Russell Wilson Traded To Denver Broncos

Seattle receives:

Two first round picks
Two second round picks
A fifth round pick
Noah Fant. (83 rating on Madden)
Drew Lock. (70 Madden rating)
Shelby Harris. (79 Madden rating)

Denver receives:

Russel Wilson. (89 Madden rating)
A fourth round pick.

Seattle gets eight players (5 picks, 3 players), while Denver gets two (A pick and a player). What universe does Seattle lose this trade? lol If Denver wins the Super Bowl for the next ten years straight, Seattle still won this trade from my perspective. That's how I feel about it.

I think the NFL has learned how to contain Russel Wilson, so the Seahawks were lucky to get a truck load for number 3 (and out). It seems the Tampa 2 defense shuts down Wilson, teams have figured this out, that's why offense has been lacking.

Now if Russel has a top 10 O-line, world class running back, good wide receivers, then Russel could show some of his old form again, but with such a huge capital investment, it will be pretty hard to make that happen. Not to mention Wilson needs a top 10 defense also. Denver needs the front office of the Rams to make that happen some how.

How Seattle was able to pull this trade off is beyond understanding. Great job Seattle ownership, management, and coaches! Simply put, Wilson was great on his rookie deal, but considering the cost on later contracts, he is average at best.

I think the moral victory will be decided on in the first game of regular season. Who ever wins that game, will feel like they won the trade, but feelings are sometimes misleading.

Conclusion: My opinion the Seahawks won the trade, but most likely the majority will have their verdict by Spring 2025.

 

[BlueTalon]

Conclusion: My opinion the Seahawks won the trade, but most likely the majority will have their verdict by Spring 2025.

I agree with this. I'm quite happy with the trade, but as the conventional wisdom for judging drafts is to wait three years before they can truly be judged accurately, I expect the same will be true of judging this trade. I fully expect the Seahawks will look better in three years than the Broncos, but time will tell.

 

[Jac]

I agree with this. I'm quite happy with the trade, but as the conventional wisdom for judging drafts is to wait three years before they can truly be judged accurately, I expect the same will be true of judging this trade. I fully expect the Seahawks will look better in three years than the Broncos, but time will tell.

The Broncos need to win the SB in the next two years to make this worth it. It's an almost impossible proposition. So many things have to go just right to run that gauntlet, and they'd have to do it in a stacked division/conference. After that, they're stuck with a late 30's QB and a $50M contract, while Seattle hopefully picks up one of the exciting QB prospects next year. The two teams could be on very different trajectories by then.

 

[rcaido]

Seahawks won the Wilson trade in my opinion, no doubt about it, if we are just considering the actual transaction.

View attachment 53536

"The blockbuster deal sends from Denver to Seattle two first-round picks, No. 9 overall this year and a 2023 first-rounder; two second-round picks, No. 40 overall pick this year and a 2023 second-rounder, this year's fifth-round pick, tight end Noah Fant, quarterback Drew Lock and defensive end Shelby Harris. In addition to Wilson, the Seahawks will send a 2022 fourth-round pick to Denver."

Russell Wilson Traded To Denver Broncos

Seattle receives:

Two first round picks
Two second round picks
A fifth round pick
Noah Fant. (83 rating on Madden)
Drew Lock. (70 Madden rating)
Shelby Harris. (79 Madden rating)

Denver receives:

Russel Wilson. (89 Madden rating)
A fourth round pick.

Seattle gets eight players (5 picks, 3 players), while Denver gets two (A pick and a player). What universe does Seattle lose this trade? lol If Denver wins the Super Bowl for the next ten years straight, Seattle still won this trade from my perspective. That's how I feel about it.

I think the NFL has learned how to contain Russel Wilson, so the Seahawks were lucky to get a truck load for number 3 (and out). It seems the Tampa 2 defense shuts down Wilson, teams have figured this out, that's why offense has been lacking.

Now if Russel has a top 10 O-line, world class running back, good wide receivers, then Russel could show some of his old form again, but with such a huge capital investment, it will be pretty hard to make that happen. Not to mention Wilson needs a top 10 defense also. Denver needs the front office of the Rams to make that happen some how.

How Seattle was able to pull this trade off is beyond understanding. Great job Seattle ownership, management, and coaches! Simply put, Wilson was great on his rookie deal, but considering the cost on later contracts, he is average at best.

I think the moral victory will be decided on in the first game of regular season. Who ever wins that game, will feel like they won the trade, but feelings are sometimes misleading.

Conclusion: My opinion the Seahawks won the trade, but most likely the majority will have their verdict by Spring 2025.

wow going by Madden ratings...As for the offense lacking, if you take out the Greenbay game when Wilson came back, the Seahawks would have been ranked 6th in scoring last year. The year before the Seahawks were ranked 7th. Majority of Wilson's career he provided a top 10 offense despite having less offensive possession by like 3 games. Wilson has always been the most efficient QB in NFL history. Which really works great w/ Pete's system of play. Im not exactly sure how they will be with Geno or Lock. I think we will be a bottom tier offense but w/ a top 10 defense the coming years.

 

[BlueTalon]

Which really works great w/ Pete's system of play.

At this point, how would you know what Pete's style of play even is?

I expect that neither Lock nor Geno are or will be great. I do, however, expect that one of them will be good enough. And by that I mean one of them will be able to function within the designed schemes of the offense -- and not ad-lib as a matter of course.

 

[OrangeGravy]

In the many years I've read your posts, I have deduced that you complain because that is what you do.

You certainly have that right and take every opportunity to do so.

The funny thing about the incessant complaining with a blowhorn is that it is easy to dismiss every word from those who beat their persecution drum ad infinitum. You may even have a good point on occasion, but you've followed a path of complaining so long, even those points have a taint to them.

This is not only you of course - the complaining crew here never disappoints.

This season will be fun whatever the outcome of the individual games are or the season record is unless you belong to the complainers.

Competition is truly back and every week will provide great entertainment and fun as a direct result of the culture Pete Carroll has built in Seattle.

Much more diplomatic phrasing than I would have used!

 

[John63]

Overrated is relative.

Would we have won without Wilson? No.
Would we have even gone to the SB with Matt Flynn instead? Of course not.
Would we have won in the past 5 years and been a consistent playoff participant without Wilson? Nope.
Most of the success came from Wilson.

Initially, Lynch and the LOB powered this team, and maybe another QB could have driven success here. But once the LOB folded, few other QBs could have succeeded and could have managed to make up for Carroll as Wilson did.

As for Seattle making the playoffs this year? That is hilarious. It IS possible. But the wheels have to fall off (literally...ie serious injuries) to 2 other teams in our division for that to happen. VERY unlikely. Far beyond improbable.

This is exactly right.