Did benching Malcolm Butler lose the game for the Pats?

[uncle fester]

If Butler were in the dog house over curfew violation/drug possession, he would have been in street clothes at kickoff.

If curfew/drugs violations normally get someone traded/cut, but you can't afford to play without them, then that player sees the field at some stage.

If his illness and (drop in) recent form were solely to blame, Rowe would've been given more notice than day-of-the-Super-Bowl to get himself ready. Rowe said he was shocked and surprised on game day morning to get the promotion news. If Rowe found out days/a week prior, why was Butler suited/in tears?

If Butler was deemed to weak from illness to play, he wouldn't have been playing on special teams on Sunday.

So a player who played 90+% of the previous games defensive snaps is in pads on the sideline as the rest of the CBs are turned to toast by a backup QB.

Something doesn't add up.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

If Butler were in the dog house over curfew violation/drug possession, he would have been in street clothes at kickoff.

If curfew/drugs violations normally get someone traded/cut, but you can't afford to play without them, then that player sees the field at some stage.

If his illness and (drop in) recent form were solely to blame, Rowe would've been given more notice than day-of-the-Super-Bowl to get himself ready. Rowe said he was shocked and surprised on game day morning to get the promotion news. If Rowe found out days/a week prior, why was Butler suited/in tears?

If Butler was deemed to weak from illness to play, he wouldn't have been playing on special teams on Sunday.

So a player who played 90+% of the previous games defensive snaps is in pads on the sideline as the rest of the CBs are turned to toast by a backup QB.

Something doesn't add up.

I'm not positive, but I think you have to submit your roster 24 hrs ahead of game time. So Butler had to dress, and I imagine Belichick would have used him as an emergency DB if needed.

I admire Belichick, he did what a lot of coaches wouldn't in the biggest game of the year, stuck by his rules. You put yourself ahead of the team? You don't play. Period.

Maybe our own coach who likes to bend the rules for his better players could learn a thing or two about how important it is to be strict about putting yourself ahead of team.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Butler's rebuttal

https://twitter.com/Mac_BZ/status/960984223652941826

 

[hawknation2018]

Eric Rowe was New England's 4th highest graded player on PFF from the Super Bowl:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... atriots-33

 

[seahawkfreak]

Eric Rowe was New England's 4th highest graded player on PFF from the Super Bowl:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... atriots-33

I don't think the question is necessarily about Eric starting over Butler but why NE was using less qualified safeties covering the slot as opposed to Butler. Probably a lot we don't know.

 

[original poster]

Eric Rowe was New England's 4th highest graded player on PFF from the Super Bowl:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... atriots-33

I don't think the question is necessarily about Eric starting over Butler but why NE was using less qualified safeties covering the slot as opposed to Butler. Probably a lot we don't know.

Absolutely. I doubt we will ever know, either.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

I say no, and I would argue it’s because Butler is overrated. All of the Eagles wrs were good enough to beat the Eagles secondary, especially with the play calls and Foles finding his inner Kurt Warner.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

It still doesn't add up. So if Butler is over-rated and not that good, then why was he playing ahead of these guys all year, to the point where he took 97 or so percent of the snaps? It was right before the Super Bowl that Belichick and Patricia suddenly dial up some new schemes that requires them to bench a guy they used all year? Well in that case, both those coaches wear huge goat horns for that reason cause the schemes and game plan they came up with were absolute failures.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

It still doesn't add up. So if Butler is over-rated and not that good, then why was he playing ahead of these guys all year, to the point where he took 97 or so percent of the snaps? It was right before the Super Bowl that Belichick and Patricia suddenly dial up some new schemes that requires them to bench a guy they used all year? Well in that case, both those coaches wear huge goat horns for that reason cause the schemes and game plan they came up with were absolute failures.

Not only 97% or 98% of regular season snaps, 100% of playoff snaps as well.

Rowe played well after getting roasted in the first quarter, but Foles was 6/7 for 137 yards when targeting Butler's replacements (Rowe, Bademosi and Richards) on third down alone. I think it's pretty disingenuous to suggest Butler wouldn't increase the chances of making another stop or two in that game, no matter how "average" people want to say he is.

The fact of the matter is he is (was) the 2nd or 3rd best corner on that roster and he didn't see a defensive snap.

 

[Vpk0718]

The Eagles were missing their starting QB, pro bowl LT, and numerous other players.

Even taking away Butler, the Eagles were missing more key players

So no, this is not a valid excuse for them

 

[Uncle Si]

It still doesn't add up. So if Butler is over-rated and not that good, then why was he playing ahead of these guys all year, to the point where he took 97 or so percent of the snaps? It was right before the Super Bowl that Belichick and Patricia suddenly dial up some new schemes that requires them to bench a guy they used all year? Well in that case, both those coaches wear huge goat horns for that reason cause the schemes and game plan they came up with were absolute failures.

But isnt this typical BB, and part of what he gets so much credit for doing?

 

[Uncle Si]

If Butler were in the dog house over curfew violation/drug possession, he would have been in street clothes at kickoff.

If curfew/drugs violations normally get someone traded/cut, but you can't afford to play without them, then that player sees the field at some stage.

If his illness and (drop in) recent form were solely to blame, Rowe would've been given more notice than day-of-the-Super-Bowl to get himself ready. Rowe said he was shocked and surprised on game day morning to get the promotion news. If Rowe found out days/a week prior, why was Butler suited/in tears?

If Butler was deemed to weak from illness to play, he wouldn't have been playing on special teams on Sunday.

So a player who played 90+% of the previous games defensive snaps is in pads on the sideline as the rest of the CBs are turned to toast by a backup QB.

Something doesn't add up.

I'm not positive, but I think you have to submit your roster 24 hrs ahead of game time. So Butler had to dress, and I imagine Belichick would have used him as an emergency DB if needed.

I admire Belichick, he did what a lot of coaches wouldn't in the biggest game of the year, stuck by his rules. You put yourself ahead of the team? You don't play. Period.

Maybe our own coach who likes to bend the rules for his better players could learn a thing or two about how important it is to be strict about putting yourself ahead of team.

so you're going to assume this is what happened, praise the losing coach for doing it and chastise the coach here.. all based on a twitter rumor?

 

[HawkRiderFan]

It still doesn't add up. So if Butler is over-rated and not that good, then why was he playing ahead of these guys all year, to the point where he took 97 or so percent of the snaps? It was right before the Super Bowl that Belichick and Patricia suddenly dial up some new schemes that requires them to bench a guy they used all year? Well in that case, both those coaches wear huge goat horns for that reason cause the schemes and game plan they came up with were absolute failures.

But isnt this typical BB, and part of what he gets so much credit for doing?

True, but this time he might have gone too far in trying to be cute. The say I see it, I give BB credit for what he has accomplished in the past and how these moves tend to work out. But at the same time I don't think that makes him above criticism and in this case, suddenly benching a stating defensive back in a game where your pass D got torched looks like a bad move. Proves he's human and even the great Bellichick can make mistakes.

 

[Uncle Si]

It still doesn't add up. So if Butler is over-rated and not that good, then why was he playing ahead of these guys all year, to the point where he took 97 or so percent of the snaps? It was right before the Super Bowl that Belichick and Patricia suddenly dial up some new schemes that requires them to bench a guy they used all year? Well in that case, both those coaches wear huge goat horns for that reason cause the schemes and game plan they came up with were absolute failures.

But isnt this typical BB, and part of what he gets so much credit for doing?

True, but this time he might have gone too far in trying to be cute. The say I see it, I give BB credit for what he has accomplished in the past and how these moves tend to work out. But at the same time I don't think that makes him above criticism and in this case, suddenly benching a stating defensive back in a game where your pass D got torched looks like a bad move. Proves he's human and even the great Bellichick can make mistakes.

Dont get me wrong, he certainly deserves criticism. He's made questionable tactical moves in the past and lost the gamble. It fails to get noticed because they have won 5 super bowls, but only one didnt come down to the last play of the game. His teams have ridden the edge for 17 years, and come out 5-3. a play here or there and they aren't so shiny... or elite.

Good with the bad. I think he and Brady deserve for more criticism than they get. this may be the start