Daayyyammm...Kenneth Walker III

[GemCity]

I support BPA. Redundancy in the NFL shouldn’t have a negative connotation attached for positions like RB.

If they were targeting Benton, the pick makes a bit more sense.

I’m ecstatic about our two new backs.

Definitely not a knock on Walker. He’s now one of my favorite ‘Hawks. I want to see this kid healthy and a Seahawk for many more years to come.

Relieving a bit of that mileage is going to do wonders for both his production and longevity.

 

[AgentDib]

As others have said, Hawks fans didn't mind taking more RBs because they knew we were shorthanded at the position with Penny and Homer leaving. We've also had two seasons out of the last five that were effectively sunk after we ran out of RBs.

All modern offenses dabble in both zone blocking and angle blocking. The outside zone runs with Walker should be just as effective, or more so with JSN drawing linebackers away. High average YPC with high variance (8, 0, -1, 14, 0, 2, 0, 22).

However, Bradford was best as the pulling guard in college when he was given the chance to build up some momentum. We should have an improved effective short yardage game to the left B and C gaps this year with a TE kicking out on the OLB, Bradford pulling across to the block/flatten the SAM LB and then Charbonnet hitting the gap hard and fighting for YAC. Lower average YPC but much higher floors (5, 1, 4, 3, 0, 6, 4).

 

[Jerhawk]

@AgentDib I love your posts and how much effort you consistently put into them.

Question: what are the YPC numbers you've provided affiliated to? Is this from college or something else? Forgive my ignorance.

 

[AgentDib]

Just an example of high variance/high YPC vs. low variance/moderate YPC.

Here are Kenneth Walker's actual carries from the first Arizona Game:
+17 yards (right guard)
+34 yards (right guard)
+3 yards (left end)
-2 yards (left tackle)
+3 yards (right tackle)
+4 yards (left tackle)
+2 yards (middle)
-2 yards (middle)
+0 yards (middle)
+21 yards (right end)
+1 yard (left guard)
-2 yards (left end)
+11 yards (middle)
-3 yards (middle)
+2 yards (middle)
+1 yard (middle)
+3 yards (right tackle)
+0 yards (right tackle)
+1 yard (left tackle)
+0 yards (left end)
+3 yards (middle)

That's 97 yards on 21 carries for a very respectable 4.62 YPC. However, that is split into 3 explosive carries and then the other 18 were at just 1.5 YPC.

What I expect to see out of Charbonnet is much higher minimums across the board even if it doesn't include the big gains that Walker gets occasionally.

 

[Jerhawk]

Just an example of high variance/high YPC vs. low variance/moderate YPC.

Here are Kenneth Walker's actual carries from the first Arizona Game:
+17 yards (right guard)
+34 yards (right guard)
+3 yards (left end)
-2 yards (left tackle)
+3 yards (right tackle)
+4 yards (left tackle)
+2 yards (middle)
-2 yards (middle)
+0 yards (middle)
+21 yards (right end)
+1 yard (left guard)
-2 yards (left end)
+11 yards (middle)
-3 yards (middle)
+2 yards (middle)
+1 yard (middle)
+3 yards (right tackle)
+0 yards (right tackle)
+1 yard (left tackle)
+0 yards (left end)
+3 yards (middle)

That's 97 yards on 21 carries for a very respectable 4.62 YPC. However, that is split into 3 explosive carries and then the other 18 were at just 1.5 YPC.

What I expect to see out of Charbonnet is much higher minimums across the board even if it doesn't include the big gains that Walker gets occasionally.

Oh I get it now. Thank you!

I honestly never looked at that kind of stat before. Learning something new everyday. Appreciate it

 

[bsuhawk]

A great example of a high variance/high YPC RB is the great Barry Sanders. He averaged 5 yards per carry for his career. However, if you look closely at his numbers, a typical game for him would be 20+ carries for 120+ yards with 100 of those yards on two or three carries. I think Walker is very similar. Most of his carries are for minimal gains but he'll have two or three big chunk plays per game. As such, I think Charbonnet is the perfect complement to Walker. While Walker is a big play threat every time he touches the ball, he's not the kind of RB you can hand the ball to 12 times in the fourth quarter and have him ice the game. However, Charbonnet may be that kind of back. Time will tell.

P.S. Just to be clear, I'm not claiming Walker is the next Barry Sanders. Sanders was a unicorn. If you're not familiar with him do yourself a favor and pull his career highlights up on YouTube.

 

[BlueTalon]

A great example of a high variance/high YPC RB is the great Barry Sanders. He averaged 5 yards per carry for his career. However, if you look closely at his numbers, a typical game for him would be 20+ carries for 120+ yards with 100 of those yards on two or three carries. I think Walker is very similar. Most of his carries are for minimal gains but he'll have two or three big chunk plays per game. As such, I think Charbonnet is the perfect complement to Walker. While Walker is a big play threat every time he touches the ball, he's not the kind of RB you can hand the ball to 12 times in the fourth quarter and have him ice the game. However, Charbonnet may be that kind of back. Time will tell.

P.S. Just to be clear, I'm not claiming Walker is the next Barry Sanders. Sanders was a unicorn. If you're not familiar with him do yourself a favor and pull his career highlights up on YouTube.

IIRC, Barry Sanders led the league being on the receiving end of TFLs. It's not a good stat, but it was part of his running style, part of what made him who he was. Like with any other player, you take the good with the bad.

 

[bsuhawk]

IIRC, Barry Sanders led the league being on the receiving end of TFLs. It's not a good stat, but it was part of his running style, part of what made him who he was. Like with any other player, you take the good with the bad.

Sanders actually took a lot of criticism for that, unfairly in my opinion. Part of it was definitely his running style, but it was also because of his offensive line, which wasn't very good.

 

[Kaurna Hawk]

Loving the Charbonnet pick
Our run game is going to be fun to watch

 

[RiverDog]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I just don't like spending high draft picks, ie 1st and 2nd rounders, on running backs for the following reasons:

1. RB is the most injury prone position on the field.

2. RB's are almost always 2 down backs. Very few are complete backs that can run, catch, and block, and thus come out on critical third downs.

3. Very good serviceable running backs can be found in the lower rounds.
Chris Carson is a great example.

4. It's no longer a running back's league. Last season, the top 3 running backs in rushing yardage, i.e. Josh Jacobs, Derrick Henry, and Nick Chubb, all played for losing teams that did not qualify for the playoffs. Does anyone remember the last time a player that won the rushing crown appeared in a Super Bowl? I went back 10 years and couldn't find one.

Edit: It would appear that the last time that season's rushing champ played in a Super Bowl was in 2005 and our very own Shaun Alexander.

There, I said it. Now let me get the hell out of here before I get pelted with fruit salad.

 

[Jerhawk]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I just don't like spending high draft picks, ie 1st and 2nd rounders, on running backs for the following reasons:

1. RB is the most injury prone position on the field.

2. RB's are almost always 2 down backs. Very few are complete backs that can run, catch, and block, and thus come out on critical third downs.

3. Very good serviceable running backs can be found in the lower rounds.
Chris Carson is a great example.

4. It's no longer a running back's league. Last season, the top 3 running backs in rushing yardage, i.e. Josh Jacobs, Derrick Henry, and Nick Chubb, all played for losing teams that did not qualify for the playoffs. Does anyone remember the last time a player that won the rushing crown appeared in a Super Bowl? I went back 10 years and couldn't find one.

Edit: It would appear that the last time that season's rushing champ played in a Super Bowl was in 2005 and our very own Shaun Alexander.

There, I said it. Now let me get the hell out of here before I get pelted with fruit salad.

1. Is it? I'd be curious to see stats on that.
2. That's why it's good to spend a high pick on then. Marshawn Lynch was the 12th overall pick by the Bills for a reason
3. Yeah but we need consistent superstars, not serviceable
4. Completely disagree. If you can pound the rock consistently, it sets up play action, tilts TOP in your favor, and helps win in cold weather/rainy or snowy conditions.

 

[Year of The Hawk]

I guess I'm in the minority here, but I just don't like spending high draft picks, ie 1st and 2nd rounders, on running backs for the following reasons:

1. RB is the most injury prone position on the field.

2. RB's are almost always 2 down backs. Very few are complete backs that can run, catch, and block, and thus come out on critical third downs.

3. Very good serviceable running backs can be found in the lower rounds.
Chris Carson is a great example.

4. It's no longer a running back's league. Last season, the top 3 running backs in rushing yardage, i.e. Josh Jacobs, Derrick Henry, and Nick Chubb, all played for losing teams that did not qualify for the playoffs.

There, I said it. Now let me get the hell out of here before I get pelted with fruit salad.

Agree somewhat. Pete’s core philosophy is run based to control ball and clock.

Running backs do get dinged up frequently. We have seen what happens when we get one dinged (every year it seems) up and the run game falls off. Right now the running back room looks to be stacked. I am very excited about this.

The offense is now more versatile and with more depth we have more sustainability for the long season.

The losing teams with top tier running back probably relied on them much more than a team with the Hawks talent across the board. Running back by committee should keep the injury bug off more and keep them fresher for a playoff run.

 

[RiverDog]

There's super star RB's that haven't gotten a whiff of a SB strewn all over the league: LaDanian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Derrick Henry, Zeke Elliot, Saquon Barkley, Todd Gurley, LeSean McCoy, the list goes on forever. We talked about Beast. In our Lombardi year of 2013 under Pete's run-first offense, Beast ranked just 6th in the league in rushing.

At least statistically speaking, a star running back is absolutely not essential to a championship team, might even be considered detrimental to a team's chances in that running teams don't often win championships.

 

[bsuhawk]

There's super star RB's that haven't gotten a whiff of a SB strewn all over the league: LaDanian Tomlinson, Adrian Peterson, Derrick Henry, Zeke Elliot, Saquon Barkley, Todd Gurley, LeSean McCoy, the list goes on forever. We talked about Beast. In our Lombardi year of 2013 under Pete's run-first offense, Beast ranked just 6th in the league in rushing.

At least statistically speaking, a star running back is absolutely not essential to a championship team, might even be considered detrimental to a team's chances in that running teams don't often win championships.

You can cherry-pick a list of very good players who have not played in a Super Bowl for any position, including QB. As for Marshawn Lynch, he was probably the Seahawks' 2013 offensive MVP. As for a star running back not being essential for a championship team, without Marshawn Lynch the 2013 Seahawks don't make it to the Super Bowl let alone win it. Had the Hawks handed the ball to their nonessential RB in 2014 the Hawks would probably have two Super Bowl wins instead of one.

 

[RiverDog]

You can cherry-pick a list of very good players who have not played in a Super Bowl for any position, including QB. As for Marshawn Lynch, he was probably the Seahawks' 2013 offensive MVP. As for a star running back not being essential for a championship team, without Marshawn Lynch the 2013 Seahawks don't make it to the Super Bowl let alone win it. Had the Hawks handed the ball to their nonessential RB in 2014 the Hawks would probably have two Super Bowl wins instead of one.

You didn't acknowledge this important qualifier in my statement about star running backs not being essential for a championship team:

At least statistically speaking

And as far as star quarterbacks not having gotten to a SB, there aren't very many that haven't, certainly a lot less than star RB's. But I'll wait for you to compile your list.

 

[MORGULON]

FIXED IT!

Aren't all of them on rookie deals?

 

[bsuhawk]

You didn't acknowledge this important qualifier in my statement about star running backs not being essential for a championship team:

At least statistically speaking

And as far as star quarterbacks not having gotten to a SB, there aren't very many that haven't, certainly a lot less than star RB's. But I'll wait for you to compile your list.

Since the qualifier "At least statistically speaking" is nonsensical without providing actual (not made up) statistical values (things like medians, means, variances, standard deviations; I would even accept a correlation although that doesn't show causality) I ignored it. If your point had been that QB is more important than RB then I would agree with that. However, making a blanket statement that RBs are nonessential to championship teams is false.

 

[nwHawk]

Aren't all of them on rookie deals?

Yeah, I was too lazy to change the second half of the original post.

 

[toffee]

@AgentDib I love your posts and how much effort you consistently put into them.

I second that! Keep up the good work @AgentDib !