Christine Michael (and RB position in general)

[justafan]

I think Sherman Smith has some say in the situation, everyone wants to blame Cable, but Smith was also the one that was endorsing Turbin heavily last year.

I dont know if anyone is blaming cable.Its CMs fault for not doing the right things and earning playing time.If he was the more valuable player on game day he would make the active squad.

 

[LickMyNuts]

It doesn't take two years for a running back to learn how to pass block. It sometimes takes year to pick up the scheme and know who to block.

At this point if CM is healthy and he is not on the field then something else is wrong.

I also believe you figure out a way to get him on the active roster. He might only have four carries. But one of them might be a 40 yard td.

 

[RiverDog]

Turbin had a brutal pass protection breakdown in the Broncos game. It was a reminder that Turbin himself is mediocre at best in pass pro, and the gap between him and Michael in protection is probably not as big as it is in the minds of our coaches.

Michael has shown some amazing ability as a receiver, too. And he is of course a much better runner than Turbin. At this point I think it is probably about time to bump him up to the #2 RB role.

Given that our GM and Bevell have spoken so highly of Michael, you wonder why he's getting the shaft for playing time. My personal theory is that Michael is not well liked by Tom Cable. I base this on no evidence, other than Cable's long established history of playing favorites, usually in favor of less talented players who have the kind of attitude he likes. I think Cable likely has a ton of say in who starts at OL or at #2 RB.

Michael is also a victim of playing on an amazing roster that is relatively healthy. Every team has 8 inactives, and those spots are usually reserved for injured players and roster stash types. But on Seattle, you have good players getting healthy scratches every week, it's not just Michael. Most teams go into games with 3 active RBs and use them all. We've seen a few games this year where 4 different RBs took handoffs. But Seattle only runs with two, because they have so many good reserves at other positions and Lynch is just that damn good.

Do I agree with this idea? I don't. I think Seattle is leaving yards and points on the field by not playing Michael 5-10 snaps a game. I could very easily see him having the kind of impact for our offense that Ben Tate had with Arian Foster all those years. Hopefully Michael gets his day as a complimentary back, but until then I guess I'll just have to settle for having the best team in the NFL.

That play was UGLY, but I'm not sure I'd use it as an example of his ability in pass protection. Turbin looked confused and was out of position, like he wasn't sure if he was supposed to pick up that guy or not. If he had positioned himself between the defender and the QB and gotten bowled over, I'd be a lot more concerned. It looked more like a mental error that's very fixable.

I was against drafting Michael with our first available pick of that draft, for a number of reasons: Beast still has quite a bit of mileage left in his legs, and was under contract for another 3 years. We just got through drafting a RB the previous year, and Turbin looked pretty darn capable in all aspects of the position, running, receiving, and blocking. I felt that for a team who's future was now, ie our window of opportunity had arrived, that we should be spending our higher draft choices on players that can make an immediate impact, not on a 2 or 3 year project. Running back is a low value position, as evidenced by this year's draft where a RB wasn't taken until the mid 50's.

I have yet to see anything that would make me want to back off that initial assessment.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

CM is quickly approaching LaMichael James status. This is his 2nd year in the league and he is completely invisible. All the things you heard about James, you hear about CM. Has made great strides in his time here, become a better blocker, knows the offense now ect ect. CM is just looking like a straight up bad pick. Heck a RB avg Career in the NFL is only 2.5 years long. His 3rd year will be very telling. You will know real quick if its time to just cut bait.

 

[bigskydoc]

Forgot to add. The injury to Miller probably hurts CM's chances of seeing the active roster this weekend

- bsd

 

[Sgt. Largent]

CM is quickly approaching LaMichael James status. This is his 2nd year in the league and he is completely invisible. All the things you heard about James, you hear about CM. Has made great strides in his time here, become a better blocker, knows the offense now ect ect. CM is just looking like a straight up bad pick. Heck a RB avg Career in the NFL is only 2.5 years long. His 3rd year will be very telling. You will know real quick if its time to just cut bait.

James was never going to be more than a change of pace back, he's too small.

Michael has all the skill and size to be a feature back, he unfortunately got drafted by a SB contending team with a future HOF RB in his prime.

Not all a victim of circumstance though, because if there's one thing Pete's not afraid of it's playing players who have earned it......and truthfully between being dinged up and having a hard time with blocking schemes Michael hasn't forced Pete's hand. Which is disappointing because IMO Michael's got some special skills.

 

[King Dog]

Based on Michael's injury history, I don't think he's ever going to be a Lynch type of guy carries wise.

Unless you think Turbin is the answer when Lynch is done, I look for us to invest another high draft pick at the position when the time comes.

That being said, I can't wait to actually see Michael out there on the field. I can't believe Turbin is the better option. Of course once upon a time, I thought Whitehurst was the better option at qb over Tarvaris

 

[HawkWow]

Christine Michael and Robert Turbin > Eddie Lacy

And it's not all that close.

LOL. "Not all that close" until reality enters the picture. Then it looks a bit more like:

Lacy > Turbin
Turbin > Richardson
Michael > towel boy

After the scouting reports on Michael, Pete and JS gambled on him anyway. One of their lets get cute with this pick moves. Fortunately there's not been many of those, but both Irvin and Michael fall under that category, for sure. Who here actually believes Michael is (still) seen by the staff as some sort of secret weapon, soon to be unleashed to terrify the league? The only thing terrifying about CM is that he's a high rd back that fumbles, can't block or play ST. Pretty much living up to his reputation, actually. The scouting report also questioned his character and noted that Michael appeared to be "unwilling to learn" these things.

Pete saying "Michael is most improved" is Pete-speak. Period. "Most improved"?...well, just how bad was he when we drafted him, Pete? Michael, as of now, is a wasted pick and quickly entering the bust zone. You don't intentionally save 2nd rd RBs for 2 years. SF is in the same boat with Lattimore, but for MUCH different reasons. The Beast and Turbin are doing fine and that is our saving grace (right now). Gore and Hyde doing similar for SF.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Christine Michael and Robert Turbin > Eddie Lacy

And it's not all that close.

LOL. "Not all that close" until reality enters the picture. Then it looks a bit more like:

Lacy > Turbin
Turbin > Richardson
Michael > towel boy

After the scouting reports on Michael, Pete and JS gambled on him anyway. One of their lets get cute with this pick moves. Fortunately there's not been many of those, but both Irvin and Michael fall under that category, for sure. Who here actually believes Michael is (still) seen by the staff as some sort of secret weapon, soon to be unleashed to terrify the league? The only thing terrifying about CM is that he's a high rd back that fumbles, can't block or play ST. Pretty much living up to his reputation, actually. The scouting report also questioned his character and noted that Michael appeared to be "unwilling to learn" these things.

Pete saying "Michael is most improved" is Pete-speak. Period. "Most improved"?...well, just how bad was he when we drafted him, Pete? Michael, as of now, is a wasted pick and quickly entering the bust zone. You don't intentionally save 2nd rd RBs for 2 years. SF is in the same boat with Lattimore, but for MUCH different reasons. The Beast and Turbin are doing fine and that is our saving grace (right now). Gore and Hyde doing similar for SF.

Water boy is ticked off that you chose Towel Boy over him..... :mrgreen:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

That being said, I can't wait to actually see Michael out there on the field. I can't believe Turbin is the better option.

Depends on what your definition of "better" is.

Michael might be more talented and have a higher upside than Turbin, but right now Turbin is more dependable, which is why he's still ahead of Michael on the depth chart.

Bottom line, unless something happens to Lynch, we're not going to get our answers on Michael until next year, and even then only if we don't extend Lynch or we do resign Lynch and trade Michael. Just not enough carries in 2014 to get a big enough sample set of what Michael can do.

 

[hawknation2014]

If Michael doesn't play this year, that would seem to me to be a real waste. This offense could use another dynamic, change of pace back to pair with Harvin. Imagine the defense having to account for Harvin in the slot and Michael in the backfield. It would be another way to open up the offense.

 

[DavidSeven]

If Lynch had gotten hurt last year and CM/Turbo had filled in adequately, then we'd all be singing the praises of this pick. Think of last year -- Okung and Breno get hurt; everyone is pissed we didn't spend high draft capital on back-up tackles to address the potential for injury. There are likely multiple factors contributing to CM's lack of playing time, but being a victim of Seattle's healthy RB stable is certainly one of the primary ones. Ultimately, that's a good thing.

Just because you don't use your insurance doesn't mean you were stupid for buying the policy.

 

[brimsalabim]

I'm sure once CM's healthy, he'll get a few snaps here and there. I don't mind having talent developing and waiting in the wings and I don't condemn or diminish CM for not beating out an incredible running back that is still at the top of his game not to mention one that has also built a substantial amount of equity with this team and its fanbase...

What running backs drafted in the last two years would you have taken, not just over Christine Michael, but that you think would have beat out the Beast for a starting job or even taken away a substantial number of snaps??

Starting job? whoa there partier.... CM hasn't even worked himself into the #2 position yet.

 

[Jville]

I am reminded that much of what we see and discuss is fed by visual impressions and measurables. In contrast, our insight into what is typically described as intangibles is rather limited. There are real differences among those we discuss with regards to their maturity and their ability to learn and adapt. Some are quicker students than others.

NFL and NCAA workweek restrictions have most certainly had an impact on "learn by doing" style and method. Those dependent on that style simply demand more calendar time to develop and mature.

I am also reminded that there is some variation, from year to year, in trade offs between so called tangibles and intangibles. And, that each season tends to have it's own theme. The 2013 draft theme emphasized size and athletic potential. Remember Chris Harper the raw prospect and body catcher? He has been thru 3 teams already and is currently a free agent chasing tryouts and asking for more time. When the 2014 draft came around, more polished and mature receivers with better learning skills were chosen.

We are fortunate to enjoy the benefits of a staff that learns and adapts from from both it's successes and disappointments.

 

[Smellyman]

I think the coaches have been more inclined to play rooks and young guys on D than O when not absolutely necessary. (Britt/Sweezy)

So Turbin plays more than Michael, almost the same reason Miller plays more than Willson. They have trust in the old guys. I realize Turbin isn't much older, but he was the only option his first year as backup and got to play a lot thus earning trust

Now if Miller didn't take a pay cut and Lynch sat out the year, they would have a whole lot of trust in Willson and Michael.

 

[IrishNW]

Turbin had a brutal pass protection breakdown in the Broncos game. It was a reminder that Turbin himself is mediocre at best in pass pro, and the gap between him and Michael in protection is probably not as big as it is in the minds of our coaches.

Michael has shown some amazing ability as a receiver, too. And he is of course a much better runner than Turbin. At this point I think it is probably about time to bump him up to the #2 RB role.

Given that our GM and Bevell have spoken so highly of Michael, you wonder why he's getting the shaft for playing time. My personal theory is that Michael is not well liked by Tom Cable. I base this on no evidence, other than Cable's long established history of playing favorites, usually in favor of less talented players who have the kind of attitude he likes. I think Cable likely has a ton of say in who starts at OL or at #2 RB.

Michael is also a victim of playing on an amazing roster that is relatively healthy. Every team has 8 inactives, and those spots are usually reserved for injured players and roster stash types. But on Seattle, you have good players getting healthy scratches every week, it's not just Michael. Most teams go into games with 3 active RBs and use them all. We've seen a few games this year where 4 different RBs took handoffs. But Seattle only runs with two, because they have so many good reserves at other positions and Lynch is just that damn good.

Do I agree with this idea? I don't. I think Seattle is leaving yards and points on the field by not playing Michael 5-10 snaps a game. I could very easily see him having the kind of impact for our offense that Ben Tate had with Arian Foster all those years. Hopefully Michael gets his day as a complimentary back, but until then I guess I'll just have to settle for having the best team in the NFL.

I agree 100%. I think Turbo was a Cable pick and Tom is playing favorites.

 

[Basis4day]

Turbin had a brutal pass protection breakdown in the Broncos game. It was a reminder that Turbin himself is mediocre at best in pass pro, and the gap between him and Michael in protection is probably not as big as it is in the minds of our coaches.

Michael has shown some amazing ability as a receiver, too. And he is of course a much better runner than Turbin. At this point I think it is probably about time to bump him up to the #2 RB role.

Given that our GM and Bevell have spoken so highly of Michael, you wonder why he's getting the shaft for playing time. My personal theory is that Michael is not well liked by Tom Cable. I base this on no evidence, other than Cable's long established history of playing favorites, usually in favor of less talented players who have the kind of attitude he likes. I think Cable likely has a ton of say in who starts at OL or at #2 RB.

Michael is also a victim of playing on an amazing roster that is relatively healthy. Every team has 8 inactives, and those spots are usually reserved for injured players and roster stash types. But on Seattle, you have good players getting healthy scratches every week, it's not just Michael. Most teams go into games with 3 active RBs and use them all. We've seen a few games this year where 4 different RBs took handoffs. But Seattle only runs with two, because they have so many good reserves at other positions and Lynch is just that damn good.

Do I agree with this idea? I don't. I think Seattle is leaving yards and points on the field by not playing Michael 5-10 snaps a game. I could very easily see him having the kind of impact for our offense that Ben Tate had with Arian Foster all those years. Hopefully Michael gets his day as a complimentary back, but until then I guess I'll just have to settle for having the best team in the NFL.

I agree 100%. I think Turbo was a Cable pick and Tom is playing favorites.

Except hes been hurt this year, so we're really talking about last year. And last year Pete consistently said Michael struggled in pass protection where Turbin was better. Whether that is still true this year is yet to be seen due to the hamstring injury.

 

[IrishNW]

Except hes been hurt this year, so we're really talking about last year. And last year Pete consistently said Michael struggled in pass protection where Turbin was better. Whether that is still true this year is yet to be seen due to the hamstring injury.

I understand that and I still think Tom Cable is playing favorites.

 

[DavidSeven]

During preseason, Michael looked good but didn't outshine Turbin in such a way that made the decision easy. He also fumbled twice in limited opps (tough fumbles, but fumbles nonetheless). Many of us speculated at that time that he lost the RB2 job right then. Add in the fact that he had a hamstring injury to start this season, and his standing behind Lynch and Turbin isn't much of a mystery to me.

I don't really think anyone is playing favorites. Michael had a shot to compete in preseason and wasn't able to grab the bull (or the ball) by the horns. I still think he's a promising player who could one day be a feature back. But he still has to fight for it.

 

[Sac]

CMike also has to take a Semester of Tiki Barber's "How not to fumble"