Christine Michael (and RB position in general)

[Jville]

Marshawn Lynch: At this point in time, I don't see any option to Marshawn Lynch. He is a "once in a great while" running back. Take Marshawn out of the lineup and it's a completely different and lesser offense.

Robert Turbin: To my eyes, it is the feet that often get in Robert's way. Marshawn Lynch is an exceptional influence to be around for an example of how to use one's feet. I am looking for more evidence of improved feet from Turbin prior to the conclusion of this season.

Christine Michael: Maturity has an impact on my expectations with any player selection. And maturity was a factor, in my eyes, with his selection. I continue to think of Christine Michael as a two year project .... from day one. So Michael's history, to date, is well within expectations.

Derrick Coleman: I realize he is rarely a part of any running back conversation. But in Derrick, I see an affordable and dependable 23 year old back and special teams stand out whose best years are in the near future.

CBA Practice Limitations: IMHO ........ CBA limitations on team practices have slowed the development of some development projects.

I think preliminary evaluation and planning for 2015 begins in earnest sometime in December of this year. I think rosters are still primarily a year to year series of projects. And, there is a lot of additional information needed from existing players on the current roster.

 

[Basis4day]

I don't buy the stacked roster argument because Turbin hasn't been that great. Ideally, CM would improve enough in those three critical areas (durability, ball security, and blocking) to see the field as much or more than Turbin.

Last year Turbin was clearly the better blocker, which was all the more important when you look at how many Lineman got hurt and Wilson was taking too many hits (And we found out after the Super Bowl he'd been playing with a late season shoulder injury). Pete consistently said that it was Michael's pass blocking that kept him off the field. The hamstring issues haven't allowed us to see if he has improved. Even if he has, i don't think he displaces Turbin on the active roster. Someone has to sit on game-day in order to see Michael.

 

[hawknation2014]

I don't buy the stacked roster argument because Turbin hasn't been that great. Ideally, CM would improve enough in those three critical areas (durability, ball security, and blocking) to see the field as much or more than Turbin.

Last year Turbin was clearly the better blocker, which was all the more important when you look at how many Lineman got hurt and Wilson was taking too many hits (And we found out after the Super Bowl he'd been playing with a late season shoulder injury). Pete consistently said that it was Michael's pass blocking that kept him off the field. The hamstring issues haven't allowed us to see if he has improved. Even if he has, i don't think he displaces Turbin on the active roster. Someone has to sit on game-day in order to see Michael.

I'm not writing off CM; I think he has the potential to be a dynamic change of pace back. I just don't see him as having the qualities of a feature back-- durability, ball security, blocking, and most importantly for this offense, consistency between the tackles. He has shown that he needs to be given the ball in space to be successful.

CM has a chance to be a huge asset to this offense, adding the similar kind of game-breaking ability to the running game that Percy Harvin has given the passing game. Does he add more to the offense than our sixth receiver (Paul Richardson)? That's an open question.

The more obvious answer is he will never be a complete replacement for Marshawn Lynch in the running game, and neither will Turbin. To eventually replace Lynch, they will have to draft or trade for a feature back.

 

[HansGruber]

Christine Michael and Robert Turbin > Eddie Lacy

And it's not all that close. Lacy and Trent Richardson are the JakeLockers of RBs. Lots of hype about potential, no real production to back it up.

 

[hawknation2014]

Christine Michael and Robert Turbin > Eddie Lacy

And it's not all that close. Lacy and Trent Richardson are the JakeLockers of RBs. Lots of hype about potential, no real production to back it up.

Lacy has proven himself on the field to be infinitely better than Trent Richardson. That comparison is foolhardy, i.e. based solely on the fact that they attended the same school.

Lacy as a rookie:
1,178 yards, 4.1 ypc, and 11 TDs.

Michael and Turbin combined in their NFL careers:
732 yards, 3.9 ypc, 0 TDs.

Lacy does what a feature back should do-- breaks tackles consistently between the tackles. Neither Turbin nor Michael are that kind of runner. if we keep Lynch, he could continue to be that kind of runner for us for the next three years.

 

[DavidSeven]

I like Lacy, but averaging 0.2 more YPC than Turbin/Michael when he gets to play feature-back and establish a rhythm (while the other guys have to jump in and out of plays) isn't saying a whole lot . Also, the TD argument is weak because Turbin and Michael aren't going to get RZ opportunities when Marshawn Lynch is available.

But yes, they're all better than Trent Richardson.

 

[Ozzy]

I think Michael is definitely more talented than Lacy but still has to put it together. He has all the tools to be a feature back IMO and not sure why some are saying change of pace only. He's a special talent.....I just hope he can put it all together. Time will tell.

 

[Largent80]

Michael hasn't helped himself one bit by being injured. To me, he was the surprise pick in that draft, and I'm still scratching my head on it.

However, the dude looks good when he is out there, but he isn't out there for a host of reasons and times.

To me, if Lynch keeps doing what he is currently doing, C.M. would be lucky to get 3 carries a game.

 

[bigwrm]

I think it's too early to start panicking about Michael. He hasn't gotten a chance to play yet because of the hamstring, which is an injury that can hang around for a while. Coming off the bye I expect he'll get some carries. If he isn't active within the next few games, then there might be cause for concern.

 

[hawknation2014]

Michael hasn't helped himself one bit by being injured. To me, he was the surprise pick in that draft, and I'm still scratching my head on it.

However, the dude looks good when he is out there, but he isn't out there for a host of reasons and times.

To me, if Lynch keeps doing what he is currently doing, C.M. would be lucky to get 3 carries a game.

Even though I don't see him as an every-down-between-the-tackles runner, CM would likely make more plays (and keep the defense on its toes) with three carries per game than Turbin has.

 

[Basis4day]

I'm not writing off CM; I think he has the potential to be a dynamic change of pace back. I just don't see him as having the qualities of a feature back-- durability, ball security, blocking, and most importantly for this offense, consistency between the tackles. He has shown that he needs to be given the ball in space to be successful.

CM has a chance to be a huge asset to this offense, adding the similar kind of game-breaking ability to the running game that Percy Harvin has given the passing game. Does he add more to the offense than our sixth receiver (Paul Richardson)? That's an open question.

The more obvious answer is he will never be a complete replacement for Marshawn Lynch in the running game, and neither will Turbin. To eventually replace Lynch, they will have to draft or trade for a feature back.

Richardson, to me, is the most obvious choice to sit to make room for Michael if they want him active on gameday. Though i'd expect the exact same response to Richardson not playing as Michael did last year (high draft pick, deep position group, i don't believe he plays special teams?). Any touch you give him is one other player that doesn't suit up.

For your other points, i think it's far too early to say what Michael will or won't be. He's only been active for four games in his career and only had 18 rushing attempts. That's less than what Lynch had against GB this year in one game. If he was on any other team i'd be concerned. But hes a 2nd year player stuck behind one of the best running backs to play in the past decade. That's a lot to live up to, but not something that is necessary for continued success in this league. Every team has to move on from their best players eventually. It's definitely premature to think we need to draft another RB to replace Lynch or trade for someone.

 

[keatonisballin]

Let me preface this by saying I like Turbin and he has looked good at times, but how hard is it to beat out a back who regularly falls down for no gain or gets 2 yards then gets arm tackled? I find it hard to believe that Michael couldn't do better than Turbin. Give CM some of Turbin's carries and see what happens.

 

[Basis4day]

I think it's too early to start panicking about Michael. He hasn't gotten a chance to play yet because of the hamstring, which is an injury that can hang around for a while. Coming off the bye I expect he'll get some carries. If he isn't active within the next few games, then there might be cause for concern.

As we continue this discussion, can we start suggesting who sits for Michael if hes healthy enough to to be on the 46 game day roster? I'd prefer people name a player and not a position group. We may have 7 Wide Receivers, but there are reasons to want each one active.

If Michael is active on game day, i think Richardson is the most logical choice to sit. They like the D-Line rotation, there are injuries to the DBs, and O-Line health is always a historical concern.

But then if Richardson did sit, i think we would be seeing the same threads about him as we have about Michael. The 46 man roster is vexing when you have a deep team.

 

[hawknation2014]

Let me preface this by saying I like Turbin and he has looked good at times, but how hard is it to beat out a back who regularly falls down for no gain or gets 2 yards then gets arm tackled? I find it hard to believe that Michael couldn't do better than Turbin. Give CM some of Turbin's carries and see what happens.

I didn't mean to turn this into a bash fest about Turbin. He can block, he doesn't fumble, and if he gets a hole, that's a possible 30-yard gain until someone in the secondary gets a hand on him. The problem is Turbin is totally incapable of breaking a tackle. He does so much right, but that is not enough to be a feature back in this offense if he can't break a tackle for a first down.

 

[Basis4day]

Let me preface this by saying I like Turbin and he has looked good at times, but how hard is it to beat out a back who regularly falls down for no gain or gets 2 yards then gets arm tackled? I find it hard to believe that Michael couldn't do better than Turbin. Give CM some of Turbin's carries and see what happens.

It's never been Michael's rushing that has been a reason Pete gives for Michael's lack of playing time last year. It was always pass protection. Don't forget the O-Line injuries and Wilson's shoulder injury that was kept pretty well under wraps. They had more belief in Turbin's pass protection.

Now that Miller is out, you may see the same thing.

 

[MysterMatt]

Michael won't get many snaps if he doesn't earn them, and that's what sort of troubles me. It's certainly too early to tell for a few guys, but our early round pics, the ones we've had of late at least, haven't made much impact. I love John and Pete's innovative approach to the draft, but still...

If you look at it from that point of view then you ignore the impact of the players that are on the field. Who do you sit to play Richardson? It's not like anyone ahead of him is stinking it up. Lynch is the most reliable, Turbin knows the blocking schemes and Coleman is the only fullback. Michael doesn't play special teams. Hard to have an impact there. Irvin and Britt are Both Starters. Wagner and Wilson are two of our best players.

PC/JS have shown your draft position means nothing. I think it's greatly overlooked just how little talent was on this team when Pete and John were hitting it out of the park with their late round draft picks.

This goes back to my point about the game day roster. In order to have an impact and get on the field, someone else needs to leave the field.

I'm not ignoring anything and appreciate that in order to play in our system a player has to make his case...against a lot of other good players. You and I are on the same page, mostly. I just think its odd and mildly troubling that a lot of our early round picks of late, the guys who you'd think would have the best chance, have failed to make much of an impact...SO FAR. Pete doesn't show a lot of reluctance when it comes to playing younger players so I don't think he's just favoring veterans. With that in mind, I have to wonder if some of these guys will ever make an impact one expects of younger players.

In a way, my concern is more academic that alarm...so long as we keep winning and those guys get on the field a lot more by year 2 or 3.

Michael is a question mark, Richardson is way to early to tell, Wagner is quite good (especially if his discipline is better), Wilson has a lot of growing to do (not really an early pick, though), and Irvin leave a lot to be desired in terms of being an impact player who was picked in the first round. Coleman, nor Britt, are not early round picks and I daresay they've both made more significant contributions than guys picked 4-7 rounds ahead of them. Again, I'm not bitching about our later round picks, just observing that some of our early ones aren't making the kind of impact we might like to see.

 

[Hawks46]

None, and that's the centerpiece of my confusion over the Michael draft pick. I assume they thought he would bump Turbin down the chart and be Beast's primary back-up, but someone forgot to ask Turbo about that idea because he has entrenched himself as the #2.

I don't think they assumed anything when they drafted Michael. I think there was an open spot on the RB depth chart after they cut Leon Washington and that they tried to fill it with the best player possible. Obviously, they probably wanted him to provide competition for both Marshawn and Turbin, but I really don't think they presumed Michael would overtake either of them in either Year 1 or Year 2.

This team has built up a philosophy around the idea of filling the back-end roster with guys who can compete and push the guys ahead of them. No different with Michael.

In regard to your OP, I think Marshawn is here next year. I think we draft yet another RB in 2015 and keep the competition pressing forward. If there's one thing you can bet on, it's that Pete isn't going to let his run game dip. That means bringing in talented backs on a continuous basis and letting the rest sort itself out through competition.

Pretty much agree with everything here.

First off, you ride Lynch until he can't carry you anymore. Not only is he the spirit of our offense, but his style works with what we do and you won't find another back to replicate what he brings. I don't see anyone paying him 10 mil/year after he's 30, so he won't be able to command that from us. 5-6 mil/year and mostly guaranteed will probably get this done. We seriously can't afford a 3 year 16 million contract even with Russ's contract looming ?

I think CMike is not seeing the field due to poor blocking. Our OL obviously has it's blocking issues so we really need the RB's to block well. Michael doesn't do that so far and it's holding him back. Turbin is solid, but unspectacular; he doesn't make enough guys miss, but he's the perfect change of pace back: he has good hands and great inline speed for his size. The defense gets worn down by Lynch, then Turbin blows by them with fresh legs.

Then there's the injuries. I think CMike would've seen some time so far this year, but then he got hurt. The coaches drool over his elite athleticism, and there's no way they don't want to at least try that on the field for a few snaps, but it's hard to justify that roster spot to a guy that doesn't block well and can't stay healthy. At this poing, I'd be leary of granting him that workhorse status that Lynch has, and relying on him to be the heir apparent.

 

[Basis4day]

Michael won't get many snaps if he doesn't earn them, and that's what sort of troubles me. It's certainly too early to tell for a few guys, but our early round pics, the ones we've had of late at least, haven't made much impact. I love John and Pete's innovative approach to the draft, but still...

If you look at it from that point of view then you ignore the impact of the players that are on the field. Who do you sit to play Richardson? It's not like anyone ahead of him is stinking it up. Lynch is the most reliable, Turbin knows the blocking schemes and Coleman is the only fullback. Michael doesn't play special teams. Hard to have an impact there. Irvin and Britt are Both Starters. Wagner and Wilson are two of our best players.

PC/JS have shown your draft position means nothing. I think it's greatly overlooked just how little talent was on this team when Pete and John were hitting it out of the park with their late round draft picks.

This goes back to my point about the game day roster. In order to have an impact and get on the field, someone else needs to leave the field.

I'm not ignoring anything and appreciate that in order to play in our system a player has to make his case...against a lot of other good players. You and I are on the same page, mostly. I just think its odd and mildly troubling that a lot of our early round picks of late, the guys who you'd think would have the best chance, have failed to make much of an impact...SO FAR. Pete doesn't show a lot of reluctance when it comes to playing younger players so I don't think he's just favoring veterans. With that in mind, I have to wonder if some of these guys will ever make an impact one expects of younger players.

In a way, my concern is more academic that alarm...so long as we keep winning and those guys get on the field a lot more by year 2 or 3.

Michael is a question mark, Richardson is way to early to tell, Wagner is quite good (especially if his discipline is better), Wilson has a lot of growing to do (not really an early pick, though), and Irvin leave a lot to be desired in terms of being an impact player who was picked in the first round. Coleman, nor Britt, are not early round picks and I daresay they've both made more significant contributions than guys picked 4-7 rounds ahead of them. Again, I'm not bitching about our later round picks, just observing that some of our early ones aren't making the kind of impact we might like to see.

To clarify, I mentioned Coleman because he is the only FB and thus taking up a spot on the 46 man roster from one of the other high picks. Britt was a 2nd rd pick, so i would call that high and they did get a starter out of it.

So we covered Irvin, Wagner, Wilson, Britt, Michael and Richardson. You generally spoke of our recent picks of late and i was trying to cover the ones in the past 2 drafts.

I guess what i'm asking is who specifically are the high round draft picks that aren't having an impact?

 

[hawknation2014]

I think Michael is definitely more talented than Lacy but still has to put it together. He has all the tools to be a feature back IMO and not sure why some are saying change of pace only. He's a special talent.....I just hope he can put it all together. Time will tell.

Michael is more of a finesse runner than Lacy is . . . he relies on juking defenders, spinning, and generally using his innate quickness to put himself at an angle where it is harder to tackle him. Lacy is the most similar current RB in the NFL to Lynch to the extent that he breaks a ton of tackles with a combination of power and balance. Lacy was top five in broken tackles as a rookie, and is currently No. 8 this season despite dealing with some injuries.

 

[LawlessHawk]

I get a big kick out of some who make big, bold, confident judgements about what a particular player is or isn't or what they can and can't do, etc. when that player has a total career stat line of 18 attempts for 79 yards in 4 career games. Hell, I've "heard" he's a pretty good pass catcher in space yada yada yada, he's got none of those.

I'm looking forward to seeing CM hit the N2O button at some point, but I'm fine with where he's at. At the moment I'm still enamored with feeding the Beast, it's just so fun.