Carroll said "doubting fans need to “do their homework”

[RolandDeschain]

Regardless of the score? I think outside of that fumble on the FG returned for a TD, we could say we dominated all the phases of the game on Sunday.

Scores are often misleading. How do you figure we dominated on offense? Wilson had 0 TDs. Same as Fitzpatrick. More yards and no interceptions, obviously the interception thing is huge and totally matters, but I don't see how you can say any offense in the NFL dominated when the QB had no TDs and the offense as a whole only had two on the day. Two TDs loses you the game, more often than not.

You have a very soft definition of "dominated", in my opinion.

We had five fumbles, two of which we lost.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

The Saints are playing well in all three phases consistently, loss last weekend aside.

Actually, the Saints are giving up TONS of yardage, and the defense is living off of turnovers.

The Saints lost the TO battle against the Patriots, and lost the game.

The Saints were even with the winless Bucs in the TO battle and escaped with a 2 point win.

The Saints are pretty much still doing it all with offense.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/ ... on/defense

Point in your favor: They are 17th in total yardage. But they're only giving up 338 yds/gm, which is average. Combine that with 12 takeaways so far, and I think that, while you have a point, I'm comfortable in pegging them as a consistently good defense - not great, but good.

 

[formido]

* The offensive line has been bad at times but was better last week.
* Even when the offensive line is average, like last year, Wilson will scramble a lot. This is by design. Pete Carroll does not agree with you that this is bad.
* Wilson is not "running for his life". He is calculatedly using his vastly superior speed and lateral quickness to gain a huge advantage for the offense. He's built like a running back, with a higher ypc than a running back, and takes far less abuse. He's a nightmare for opposing defenses.
* Russell Wilson could make the offense look more efficient by taking more risks with the ball. We shouldn't want him to do that. Ever notice how lots of QBs look great against us for long stretches, until they lose the game?
* Seattle's highest priority is explosive plays, NOT 3rd down and red zone percentage. If he had to choose one or the other, Carroll would choose explosive plays. We are 5-1 because his model of winning is right. If your model of what winning football looks like is broken, you must update your model.
* Just because we have some areas to work on, 3rd down and red zone percentage, does not mean we aren't very good right now. We are very good.
* Some people want to discuss areas of improvement. Some people are claiming we almost lost to Tennessee. Those are two different things. One is a fun discussion, the other is wrong.
* Football teams have limited resources. If we'd overspent on the offensive line this off-season, we'd have had to take from elsewhere. Instead, by knowing what Wilson can do and knowing that explosive plays are the thing, we have allocated resources properly and have an elite team from top to bottom.
* It's fascinating that Carroll has a different model for winning than what talking heads and many fans are used to and expect. We should spend more time acknowledging how Carroll's unique insight into what's important in football allows him to take advantage of our players' defining traits. Nowhere is this more true than Russell Wilson. We have an offense where scrambling from designed passes is encouraged. It's working and it's awesome.
* Seattle has the highest point differential in the NFC. That's about as close as you can get to the statistical definition of "looking like a Super Bowl team". If we play just like we've played so far, and have the highest point differential in the NFC at the end of the season, we will be in the Super Bowl.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I'm with Smelly on that, the Saints defense is doing a decent job, which is a MASSIVE improvement over their defense last year.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

The Saints are playing well in all three phases consistently, loss last weekend aside.

According to Football Outsiders, Saints are just above-average on Defense and ST. SEA is top-10 in all three phases (only team in the NFL that can claim that).

FO calls us a top-ten offense? Geez, man. I don't know if I agree, but I would need to look at how they are calculating that. I'll have to pop over there when I need to procrastinate some more.

Believe me, FG screw-ups aside, I'm thinking we are very good on ST, and defensively, we've been elite, but the offense, man.

 

[RolandDeschain]

FO calls us a top-ten offense?

Football Outsiders has not updated for week 6 yet. That should come late this afternoon/early evening. Through week 5, they have our offense ranked 9th. The Titans do have a pretty good defense this year, so I'm not sure we'll drop in ranking despite getting below the league average points scored on offense.

 

[Hawknight]

The Saints are playing well in all three phases consistently, loss last weekend aside.

According to Football Outsiders, Saints are just above-average on Defense and ST. SEA is top-10 in all three phases (only team in the NFL that can claim that).

FO calls us a top-ten offense? Geez, man. I don't know if I agree, but I would need to look at how they are calculating that. I'll have to pop over there when I need to procrastinate some more.

Believe me, FG screw-ups aside, I'm thinking we are very good on ST, and defensively, we've been elite, but the offense, man.

And a side note: the only reason we had a FG screw up is because Hausch was hurt , reason why I thought this was just a fluke.....

 

[DavidSeven]

The Saints are playing well in all three phases consistently, loss last weekend aside.

According to Football Outsiders, Saints are just above-average on Defense and ST. SEA is top-10 in all three phases (only team in the NFL that can claim that).

FO calls us a top-ten offense? Geez, man. I don't know if I agree, but I would need to look at how they are calculating that. I'll have to pop over there when I need to procrastinate some more.

Personally, I don't see why that's so shocking. We're top-10 in both yardage and points. Don't even need advanced metrics to justify calling this team a top-10 offense.

 

[DavidSeven]

FO calls us a top-ten offense?

Football Outsiders has not updated for week 6 yet. That should come late this afternoon/early evening.

Our offense is not falling out of the top-10 after gaining over 400 yards on Sunday. Our ST ranking might take a hit, but it will still probably be top-10.

 

[formido]

The Saints are playing well in all three phases consistently, loss last weekend aside.

According to Football Outsiders, Saints are just above-average on Defense and ST. SEA is top-10 in all three phases (only team in the NFL that can claim that).

FO calls us a top-ten offense? Geez, man. I don't know if I agree, but I would need to look at how they are calculating that. I'll have to pop over there when I need to procrastinate some more.

Believe me, FG screw-ups aside, I'm thinking we are very good on ST, and defensively, we've been elite, but the offense, man.

Before this last game, Seattle's pass offense was ranked #6 by DVOA. (It hasn't been updated for this week.) This is why I encourage anyone who disagrees with that to check their premises about what constitutes a winning passing offense.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Our offense is not falling out of the top-10 after gaining over 400 yards on Sunday. Our ST ranking might take a hit, but it will still probably be top-10.

Didn't say it will. We might even go up, because the Titans have a pretty good defense this year. Just saying it's not updated for this week yet, is all.

 

[Scottemojo]

My homework says we almost lost at home to Ryan Fitzpatrick.

Two field goals Fitz? You get a D-, teacher.

 

[Cartire]

I would like a list of all the complete teams playing in the NFL right now. And before anyone mentions Denver, stop. That defense is anything but complete. Its an Achilles heal right now and getting trampled by bad teams. Peyton and the offense alone have been winning games.

I'm not sure that your point does much for your argument. I'm not arguing that there are other teams playing to their potential. I'm simply stating that our team is not playing to their potential. Do you disagree with that?

If so, we disagree. If not, I'm not sure what you're trying to get at.

My point is that everyone keeps looking for this holy grail of a team. No team is going to be consistently amazing on all 3 phases. It just doesnt happen. But we keep being disappointed each week before for some reason, were not.

We have been above average in all 3 phases, while being stellar in 1 of them. That right there is the recipe for success. You dont have to be the best in all 3, you just have to be better then the other guy.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Really?

The critics are right. There are clearly problems.

Why criticize? It is a cathartic release for worry. So do people have a reason to be worried?

I would think so.

We have the NFC Defending champion breathing down our necks, which we have a slim one game lead on. They are playing better than us thus far and getting healthier while we still have key guys out.

We have two games coming up which are clearly not going to be easy. One is AZ on a short week with memories of being ridiculed after the debacle last year. They have a very good defense and probably want payback. The other STL is a team that we struggle with anyway, that fields a DL that gives our STARTING defensive line fits when we currently have one of the worst OL in football right now.

And given all that coming up, after a loss, the Seahawks come out and play a sloppy game AT HOME, flush with mistakes and stupid decisions. I would say the criticism is warranted. They have a lot to clean up and fix.

The fact of the matter is that unless the Seahawks fix their problems with the passing game (whether by getting Harvin back or getting the OL healthy or sacrificing goats on the rooftop) we aren't winning a SB. And if we get stuck on the road in the playoffs (due to SF passing us because I don't see another loss on their schedule unless it is us and that is barely 50/50 in their house) we will be lucky to make it there.

You cannot rely on your defense to win anymore unless you are the old Baltimore Ravens. The NFL just gives too much advantage to the passing game with the current rule structure. And if the calls do not go our way we simply do not have an offense that can carry the defense this year, as Baltimore clearly indicates. Even if we did, a heralded QB is going to be impossible to stop (see Tom Brady and every referee in the NFL employ against the Saints) because they are going to get the benefit of the doubt in almost every situation.

That does not mean I will not enjoy the games but lets not pretend that 5-1 means anything more than what it is, a 1 game lead against a division rival with a lot of games left to go. What we have going for us is that everything that could have gone wrong has, and we still have a good record. Atlanta has it worse. But we still have a way to go and host of problems to resolve.

 

[Smelly McUgly]

The Saints are playing well in all three phases consistently, loss last weekend aside.

According to Football Outsiders, Saints are just above-average on Defense and ST. SEA is top-10 in all three phases (only team in the NFL that can claim that).

FO calls us a top-ten offense? Geez, man. I don't know if I agree, but I would need to look at how they are calculating that. I'll have to pop over there when I need to procrastinate some more.

Personally, I don't see why that's so shocking. We're top-10 in both yardage and points. Don't even need advanced metrics to justify calling this team a top-10 offense.

And tenth when adjusted for YPG.

Man, I think you guys have convinced me that our offense is better than I thought it was. Sure, we're mid-twenties in passing offense, but we're run-first, which has to be factored in. I'm going to go ahead and move my position more toward DavidSeven and Volsung on this. They have made some great points with stats in this thread.

Still concerned about our RZ offense and third-down conversions, but we can chew up yards and move the ball just fine, it looks like.

 

[ImTheScientist]

ITT: Pete Carroll owns.

 

[Starrman44]

OK, Montana, ya got me. Fitz had nothing to do with the Titan's being in that game. If you re-watch the game, it's pretty much the Seahawks dominating and having a comedy of errors to overcome at the same time.

This game reminded me of when I used to play Madden and the computer would make crazy stuff happen after I won about 10 straight games. It was comical.

Someone said "IF Fitz threw two balls better so we didn't intercept" we could have lost. Well, the Sherman INT was simply just a bad decision. There wasn't much he could have done, he should have went somewhere else, but that's the Fitz we know and love. The near INT by Thurmond was as simple an INT as you will ever get. I don't know why Thurmond didn't make that play. I think Fitz should have thrown about 4 INT's this game, but Thurmond missed two.

Our D gave up 6 points. That's it. Game felt more in doubt because we fumbled 4 times. I'm more worried about ball security at this point than anything else.

 

[KARAVARUS]

Regardless of the score? I think outside of that fumble on the FG returned for a TD, we could say we dominated all the phases of the game on Sunday.

Scores are often misleading. How do you figure we dominated on offense? Wilson had 0 TDs. Same as Fitzpatrick. More yards and no interceptions, obviously the interception thing is huge and totally matters, but I don't see how you can say any offense in the NFL dominated when the QB had no TDs and the offense as a whole only had two on the day. Two TDs loses you the game, more often than not.

You have a very soft definition of "dominated", in my opinion.

We had five fumbles, two of which we lost.

Your point is fair, but we DID score two touchdowns and we had three other drives that resulted in FG's if you give us back that blocked one. I think it's naive to think a team can't dominate on offense if they don't have a passing TD. Do the Broncos not dominate on offense when they don't have a rushing TD? You're looking at a phase within a phase of the game in my opinion. We had almost 100 more yards than they did both rushing AND passing. We were even on turnovers, so that's a wash. I'm not including fumbles that came back to us in the discussion.

404 yards to 223, won TOP, 24 first downs to 13. The score doesn't reflect domination. I believe you know all of this, but my counter point was that you said "regardless of the score", which now you seem to be picking up like an erroneous flag with the "we only scored two touchdowns" thing.

Aside of this, if you are expecting to outgain an opponent by more than 200 yards every game or you're let down, then perhaps my definition of domination isn't what truly needs looked at.

 

[seahawk 17]

There is a whole lot of dumb in here this week.

 

[DavidSeven]

Still concerned about our RZ offense and third-down conversions, but we can chew up yards and move the ball just fine, it looks like.

This is fair. We got a little better with Unger, and I think we'll see another bump with Miller returning. Miller has been a fantastic RZ and 3rd-down target for us in the past. Only question is if we'll have to keep using him as a bonus-tackle due to O-line issues.