Can We Please For The Love Of God...

LTH

Active member
Joined
Dec 1, 2009
Messages
3,431
Reaction score
5
John63":384obvko said:
No, we cant only PC get that, haven't you heard we should not kick a man when is down well unless it's Wilson if it's PC we should not right LTH?

Again you don't read my posts if you do read my posts, you are not understanding WHAT I AM SAYING.

You consistently do this to me... you misrepresent what I'm saying and turn it into something that I didn't say.

Never once have I disrespected Russell Wilson, I have never kicked the man while he was down or any other time. all I have said was that he needs to make some adjustment and even you have agreed with me in other posts...oh yes, I read a lot... and I don't respond to a lot of posts frankly because they are NOT WORTH responding to.

so your addiction to creating false accusations against what I post are baseless..


LTH
 

John63

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
137
TwistedHusky":1cmivybb said:
Except if Russ does not speak out about what HE wants, then Pete will do what HE wants.

And Russ is still potentially worthwhile, whereas Pete is essentially worthless.

So you can see the problem.


This^^^
 

Jville

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
11,876
Reaction score
135
Aros":5aakfuza said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.

Landing in the right place, at the right time and most importantly in the right program ..........

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1465101624087564293[/tweet]

.................. we heard lots of noise among Patriot fans including those who wanted Bill's head just a few months ago. :229031_shrug:
 

JustTheTip

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
6,148
Reaction score
433
Jville":1nwu5cko said:
Aros":1nwu5cko said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.

Landing in the right place, at the right time and most importantly in the right program ..........

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1465101624087564293[/tweet]

.................. we heard lots of noise among Patriot fans including those who wanted Bill's head just a few months ago. :229031_shrug:

Comparing the Pete situation to the Bill situation is ridiculous. Bill has, throughout his career, adjusted to the talent he has. He evolves his schemes year to year and even week to week over the season. He makes adjustments minute to minute during the game and realizes that the 4th quarter isn't the only quarter essential to winning games. Like Pete he has brought in problem players and had them be productive. That isn't a function of Pete's be yourself rah-rah mantra, that is a function of winning. Bill also holds everybody accountable.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
22,164
Reaction score
1,654
Aros":3mmk81pg said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?.

It's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it's being realistic.

Let me ask you a question, has Russell looked good, let alone his usual great self for almost an entire year now going back to mid season last year?

I'd say very sporadic good to great, and that's being kind.

I don't see the same dynamic bail our asses out on our way to the playoffs Russell for a long time. Is that ALL Pete's fault? Or is Wilson's age and now injuries a sign of a slow regression because he can no longer do what he does best, escape and make plays?

So sorry, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend this is some aberration year and we're on our way back to the SB if we keep Russell.

And if I'm right and he has peaked and reached his potential as a dependable elite franchise QB? Then you better damn well start listening to offers for him next off season.

Or else you're looking at more sub .500 seasons for the rest of Pete and John's tenure here.
 

kf3339

Active member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
3,708
Reaction score
9
JustTheTip":3hsnz2cz said:
Jville":3hsnz2cz said:
Aros":3hsnz2cz said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.

Landing in the right place, at the right time and most importantly in the right program ..........

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1465101624087564293[/tweet]

.................. we heard lots of noise among Patriot fans including those who wanted Bill's head just a few months ago. :229031_shrug:

Comparing the Pete situation to the Bill situation is ridiculous. Bill has, throughout his career, adjusted to the talent he has. He evolves his schemes year to year and even week to week over the season. He makes adjustments minute to minute during the game and realizes that the 4th quarter isn't the only quarter essential to winning games. Like Pete he has brought in problem players and had them be productive. That isn't a function of Pete's be yourself rah-rah mantra, that is a function of winning. Bill also holds everybody accountable.

Exactly. PC is nothing like Bill. Good Lord I wish he was!
 

hoxrox

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
2,260
Reaction score
316
For the ultimate franchise success, which is to win a SB, one cannot be sentimental.

Russ was bad down the stretch in 2019 and 2020. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He needs a strong run game to succeed. He cannot carry a team by himself in the post season.

Now he's back from injury and insists the finger is NOT an issue. So will he finally be good down the stretch this year? Pete had to dumb down the offense this week. Apparently SW's offense is too complex for the players to execute? We will see if it works or not.

Russ has 7 more games to show if he's worth the next mega QB contract. And if he doesn't, you trade him while you can.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
22,164
Reaction score
1,654
hoxrox":16otyi28 said:
For the ultimate franchise success, which is to win a SB, one cannot be sentimental.

Russ was bad down the stretch in 2019 and 2020. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He needs a strong run game to succeed. He cannot carry a team by himself in the post season.

Now he's back from injury and insists the finger is NOT an issue. So will he finally be good down the stretch this year? Pete had to dumb down the offense this week. Apparently SW's offense is too complex for the players to execute? We will see if it works or not.

Russ has 7 more games to show if he's worth the next mega QB contract. And if he doesn't, you trade him while you can.

I'd be willing to give Russ one more year to prove he's not regressing as a franchise QB worth 35M, but not with Pete.

Seen this movie for 2-3 years now, not going to get better. Probably will get worse.

But if Jody and the brass in the Hawk organization give Pete their stamp of approval before the end of this year or during the off season? Nope. Trade Russell for as many players and picks you can get to try to rebuild.

I want no part of more Pete and Russ years. Something has to change.
 

JustTheTip

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 3, 2010
Messages
6,148
Reaction score
433
Sgt. Largent":2wcaiayt said:
hoxrox":2wcaiayt said:
For the ultimate franchise success, which is to win a SB, one cannot be sentimental.

Russ was bad down the stretch in 2019 and 2020. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He needs a strong run game to succeed. He cannot carry a team by himself in the post season.

Now he's back from injury and insists the finger is NOT an issue. So will he finally be good down the stretch this year? Pete had to dumb down the offense this week. Apparently SW's offense is too complex for the players to execute? We will see if it works or not.

Russ has 7 more games to show if he's worth the next mega QB contract. And if he doesn't, you trade him while you can.

I'd be willing to give Russ one more year to prove he's not regressing as a franchise QB worth 35M, but not with Pete.

Seen this movie for 2-3 years now, not going to get better. Probably will get worse.

But if Jody and the brass in the Hawk organization give Pete their stamp of approval before the end of this year or during the off season? Nope. Trade Russell for as many players and picks you can get to try to rebuild.

I want no part of more Pete and Russ years. Something has to change.


That something may or may not need to include Wilson, but it needs to include Pete. I am 99% convinced at this point shit continue to get worse until Pete is gone.
 

John63

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
137
JustTheTip":edfwcvrp said:
Jville":edfwcvrp said:
Aros":edfwcvrp said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.

Landing in the right place, at the right time and most importantly in the right program ..........

[tweet]https://twitter.com/MikeReiss/status/1465101624087564293[/tweet]

.................. we heard lots of noise among Patriot fans including those who wanted Bill's head just a few months ago. :229031_shrug:

Comparing the Pete situation to the Bill situation is ridiculous. Bill has, throughout his career, adjusted to the talent he has. He evolves his schemes year to year and even week to week over the season. He makes adjustments minute to minute during the game and realizes that the 4th quarter isn't the only quarter essential to winning games. Like Pete he has brought in problem players and had them be productive. That isn't a function of Pete's be yourself rah-rah mantra, that is a function of winning. Bill also holds everybody accountable.



This^^^
 

John63

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
137
hoxrox":1f0cn3cj said:
For the ultimate franchise success, which is to win a SB, one cannot be sentimental.

Russ was bad down the stretch in 2019 and 2020. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He needs a strong run game to succeed. He cannot carry a team by himself in the post season.

Now he's back from injury and insists the finger is NOT an issue. So will he finally be good down the stretch this year? Pete had to dumb down the offense this week. Apparently SW's offense is too complex for the players to execute? We will see if it works or not.

Russ has 7 more games to show if he's worth the next mega QB contract. And if he doesn't, you trade him while you can.


So most of what you say is wrong
lets start with 2019 Down the stretch let say last 7 games
avg 230 YPG 7.5 ypa, 8 tds, 3 ints, 93 passer rating far from bad.
In the playoffs he avg 300 yards, 2 tds, 9.8 ypa, 107 passer rating, again far from bad

2020
204 ypg, 12 tsa, 3 ints, 69% comply, 97 passer rating
in playoffs now you have something he was bad,


So summation

he was not bad down the stretch a tall. and in the playoffs, he played very well in 2 of the 3.

As to PC dumbing down the Offense now all you need to do is prove it was because of Wilson which you cant you are assuming, As I pointed out in other threads there have been mistakes by every member of the offense. So again you are assuming a lot and of course assuming the negative as it relates to wilson.
 

John63

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
137
JustTheTip":1fsklm5r said:
Sgt. Largent":1fsklm5r said:
hoxrox":1fsklm5r said:
For the ultimate franchise success, which is to win a SB, one cannot be sentimental.

Russ was bad down the stretch in 2019 and 2020. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He needs a strong run game to succeed. He cannot carry a team by himself in the post season.

Now he's back from injury and insists the finger is NOT an issue. So will he finally be good down the stretch this year? Pete had to dumb down the offense this week. Apparently SW's offense is too complex for the players to execute? We will see if it works or not.

Russ has 7 more games to show if he's worth the next mega QB contract. And if he doesn't, you trade him while you can.

I'd be willing to give Russ one more year to prove he's not regressing as a franchise QB worth 35M, but not with Pete.

Seen this movie for 2-3 years now, not going to get better. Probably will get worse.

But if Jody and the brass in the Hawk organization give Pete their stamp of approval before the end of this year or during the off season? Nope. Trade Russell for as many players and picks you can get to try to rebuild.

I want no part of more Pete and Russ years. Something has to change.


That something may or may not need to include Wilson, but it needs to include Pete. I am 99% convinced at this point $h!t continue to get worse until Pete is gone.


This^^^
 
OP
OP
Aros

Aros

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
15,877
Reaction score
731
Location
Sultan, WA
Sgt. Largent":1atdtad3 said:
Aros":1atdtad3 said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?.

It's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it's being realistic.

Let me ask you a question, has Russell looked good, let alone his usual great self for almost an entire year now going back to mid season last year?

I'd say very sporadic good to great, and that's being kind.

I don't see the same dynamic bail our asses out on our way to the playoffs Russell for a long time. Is that ALL Pete's fault? Or is Wilson's age and now injuries a sign of a slow regression because he can no longer do what he does best, escape and make plays?

So sorry, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend this is some aberration year and we're on our way back to the SB if we keep Russell.

And if I'm right and he has peaked and reached his potential as a dependable elite franchise QB? Then you better damn well start listening to offers for him next off season.

Or else you're looking at more sub .500 seasons for the rest of Pete and John's tenure here.

I agree he hasn't been that same dynamic player consistently these past two seasons but I have to believe there are other factors involved and not simply a regression in talent and skill. Is that scheme? Protection issues? Of course some of his often discussed discrepencies should not be discounted whether that is not taking what the defense is giving him, going for hero ball instrad of check downs, etc...

I just feel that this is a once a generational talent that still has several really good years ahead of him. I would like to see at least one more season with him before trade talks ramp up for real.
 

John63

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2018
Messages
6,651
Reaction score
137
Aros":y0061xgx said:
I agree he hasn't been that same dynamic player consistently these past two seasons but I have to believe there are other factors involved and not simply a regression in talent and skill. Is that scheme? Protection issues? Of course some of his often discussed discrepencies should not be discounted whether that is not taking what the defense is giving him, going for hero ball instrad of check downs, etc...

I just feel that this is a once a generational talent that still has several really good years ahead of him. I would like to see at least one more season with him before trade talks ramp up for real.


So I disagree with some of what is said here and have laid out why it is not true. That said as long as PC is here nothing will change.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
22,164
Reaction score
1,654
Aros":30v2085k said:
Sgt. Largent":30v2085k said:
Aros":30v2085k said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?.

It's not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, it's being realistic.

Let me ask you a question, has Russell looked good, let alone his usual great self for almost an entire year now going back to mid season last year?

I'd say very sporadic good to great, and that's being kind.

I don't see the same dynamic bail our asses out on our way to the playoffs Russell for a long time. Is that ALL Pete's fault? Or is Wilson's age and now injuries a sign of a slow regression because he can no longer do what he does best, escape and make plays?

So sorry, I'm not going to bury my head in the sand and pretend this is some aberration year and we're on our way back to the SB if we keep Russell.

And if I'm right and he has peaked and reached his potential as a dependable elite franchise QB? Then you better damn well start listening to offers for him next off season.

Or else you're looking at more sub .500 seasons for the rest of Pete and John's tenure here.

I agree he hasn't been that same dynamic player consistently these past two seasons but I have to believe there are other factors involved and not simply a regression in talent and skill. Is that scheme? Protection issues? Of course some of his often discussed discrepencies should not be discounted whether that is not taking what the defense is giving him, going for hero ball instrad of check downs, etc...

I just feel that this is a once a generational talent that still has several really good years ahead of him. I would like to see at least one more season with him before trade talks ramp up for real.

Like I said, I'm OK with one more year with Russell. But not with Pete. IMO that relationship is fractured beyond repair, as much as Pete's talking like they're still besties.

If I had to bet, Russell will force their hand this next off season anyway if Pete's not fired, regardless of what we want.
 

RiverDog

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2013
Messages
2,936
Reaction score
196
Location
Kennewick, WA
Russell has a no trade clause in his contract, and unless or until he decides he wants out, it's pointless to talk about trading him. If he wants to leave, then fine, trade him. If he wants to stay and be a key part of what looks like a couple year rebuild, then I'd welcome him with open arms.

Metcalf is a different story. He has one more year on his rookie deal then he's a free agent. He's going to command top dollar, in the neighborhood of $25M or more. If we're not willing to pay him that much money, then it makes sense to trade him this offseason before he becomes a free agent. I simply do not feel that it is wise to pay a wide receiver that kind of scratch. Combine his potential salary with Russell's and the two of them would be drawing in 25% of our salary cap.

Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. We won a Super Bowl with Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, but the high paid guy, Percy Harvin, nearly destroyed the team. I say trade Metcalf. Next to Russell, he's the only player on our roster that could garner multiple high draft picks/Pro Bowl players. We're in for a couple year rebuild and you start in places like the offensive and defensive lines, not wide receivers. Good ones are literally a dime a dozen.
 

chris98251

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 27, 2007
Messages
38,469
Reaction score
159
Location
Renton Wa.
RiverDog":37tanbka said:
Russell has a no trade clause in his contract, and unless or until he decides he wants out, it's pointless to talk about trading him. If he wants to leave, then fine, trade him. If he wants to stay and be a key part of what looks like a couple year rebuild, then I'd welcome him with open arms.

Metcalf is a different story. He has one more year on his rookie deal then he's a free agent. He's going to command top dollar, in the neighborhood of $25M or more. If we're not willing to pay him that much money, then it makes sense to trade him this offseason before he becomes a free agent. I simply do not feel that it is wise to pay a wide receiver that kind of scratch. Combine his potential salary with Russell's and the two of them would be drawing in 25% of our salary cap.

Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. We won a Super Bowl with Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, but the high paid guy, Percy Harvin, nearly destroyed the team. I say trade Metcalf. Next to Russell, he's the only player on our roster that could garner multiple high draft picks/Pro Bowl players. We're in for a couple year rebuild and you start in places like the offensive and defensive lines, not wide receivers. Good ones are literally a dime a dozen.

Wilson, Adams, Metcalf , thats a lot of cap for three guys.

Wilson and Metcalf both are in Contract years next season, if both play it through without extensions you lose them and get comp picks seemingly because few want to pay them. Wilson will be looking at a 300 - 350 Million deal, Metcalf yes agree around 25 million for probably 4 years so 100 Million.

I also think that Diggs will be up as well, don't think he is going to give a discount.
 

Sgt. Largent

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2012
Messages
22,164
Reaction score
1,654
RiverDog":skvo5csr said:
Russell has a no trade clause in his contract, and unless or until he decides he wants out, it's pointless to talk about trading him. If he wants to leave, then fine, trade him. If he wants to stay and be a key part of what looks like a couple year rebuild, then I'd welcome him with open arms.

Metcalf is a different story. He has one more year on his rookie deal then he's a free agent. He's going to command top dollar, in the neighborhood of $25M or more. If we're not willing to pay him that much money, then it makes sense to trade him this offseason before he becomes a free agent. I simply do not feel that it is wise to pay a wide receiver that kind of scratch. Combine his potential salary with Russell's and the two of them would be drawing in 25% of our salary cap.

Wide receivers are a dime a dozen. We won a Super Bowl with Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse, but the high paid guy, Percy Harvin, nearly destroyed the team. I say trade Metcalf. Next to Russell, he's the only player on our roster that could garner multiple high draft picks/Pro Bowl players. We're in for a couple year rebuild and you start in places like the offensive and defensive lines, not wide receivers. Good ones are literally a dime a dozen.

If Russell wanted to not be traded but I kinda do want to be traded last off season after going 12-4, I highly doubt he wouldn't expand his list of teams to make it easier for John to trade him because he'll REALLY want out come January after this disastrous season.

Only way I see Russell as part of the future of the Hawks is if Pete's fired and Russell's a major part of hiring the next coach and coordinator.

No way Russell's going to be OK with playing out the remainder of his deal or signing an extension at the end of 2022 if Pete's still here.
 

johnnyfever

Active member
Joined
Oct 12, 2014
Messages
1,389
Reaction score
4
Location
Spokane
massari":up79hxne said:
Trading Wilson shouldn't, and won't happen, unless they get Deshaun Watson.

They need draft picks, and DK is due for the megadeal. Personally hoping for moves like this:

Metcalf for two 1sts
Adams for a 1st
Wagner for 3rd
Poona for 3rd
Collier for Clelin Ferrell

So you want to trade known quantities, 4 of which are good to great players. To roll the dice? Look at how many drafted players work out, not many.
 

Latest posts

Top