Can We Please For The Love Of God...

Aros

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Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.
 

jammerhawk

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What has happened here is a belief that somehow it’s easy to find franchise QBs, so we can trade Wilson for rolls of the dice to find a winner. Additionally, that perpetual All Pro MLBs are easy to replace, look around there aren’t many in the league. The latest favourite is to trade Metcalf when the team has spent year after year trying to find him and basically lucked in as he was suspected to have health issues with his neck.

The same folks complain about the team’s choices in the draft which points out how difficult it has been for the team to find young players who can make a difference or are special or they complain the team just sucks at drafting good players early in the draft. The latter 2 points make the trade for draft picks of a known high quality player for rolls of the dice or equivalent lottery tickets to hopefully acquire some winners to transform the team which seems logically flawed.

What is also apparent that through injury or poor draft or trade choices the team has had bad luck replacing the older players with younger players so the team is aging out of competitive leadership due to a lack of depth or new blood. The league has caught up and figured out what the Hawks do or can’t do and are taking advantage of that insight. New direction has been slow to come or simply hasn’t been found.

This year the hoped for new approach from the new OC hasn’t materialized, there is no effective running attack, the intermediate passing game is non-existent; and the D is still weak at preventing the conversion of 3rd downs thus preventing the weak O from even being on the field. In short the schemes are both ineffective and there isn’t the personnel here to consistently or effectively run what the staff wants to be run. Perhaps the time has truly come for some real coaching changes as the present staff isn’t getting it done.

Sadly the efforts to find bodies through at times apparent seemingly ill advised trades simply haven’t panned out and the team has depreciated from a quality competitor to a team on the cusp of a free fall to the basement of the league.The band-aids acquired through trades have fallen off or aren’t helping enough and the new capable younger players just aren’t there.

I truly can’t see the wisdom of trading away a genuine franchise QB, and I accept it may take the team a few seasons to re-establish their competitive quality as a winner. How that happens may involve a wholesale change of coaching personnel and some improved success in acquiring quality talent.

Completely blowing it up though is a mistake.
 

toffee

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jammerhawk":36tsilv2 said:
What has happened here is a belief that somehow it’s easy to find franchise QBs, so we can trade Wilson for rolls of the dice to find a winner. Additionally, that perpetual All Pro MLBs are easy to replace, look around there aren’t many in the league. The latest favourite is to trade Metcalf when the team has spent year after year trying to find him and basically lucked in as he was suspected to have health issues with his neck.

The same folks complain about the team’s choices in the draft which points out how difficult it has been for the team to find young players who can make a difference or are special or they complain the team just sucks at drafting good players early in the draft. The latter 2 points make the trade for draft picks of a known high quality player for rolls of the dice or equivalent lottery tickets to hopefully acquire some winners to transform the team which seems logically flawed.

What is also apparent that through injury or poor draft or trade choices the team has had bad luck replacing the older players with younger players so the team is aging out of competitive leadership due to a lack of depth or new blood. The league has caught up and figured out what the Hawks do or can’t do and are taking advantage of that insight. New direction has been slow to come or simply hasn’t been found.

This year the hoped for new approach from the new OC hasn’t materialized, there is no effective running attack, the intermediate passing game is non-existent; and the D is still weak at preventing the conversion of 3rd downs thus preventing the weak O from even being on the field. In short the schemes are both ineffective and there isn’t the personnel here to consistently or effectively run what the staff wants to be run. Perhaps the time has truly come for some real coaching changes as the present staff isn’t getting it done.

Sadly the efforts to find bodies through at times apparent seemingly ill advised trades simply haven’t panned out and the team has depreciated from a quality competitor to a team on the cusp of a free fall to the basement of the league.The band-aids acquired through trades have fallen off or aren’t helping enough and the new capable younger players just aren’t there.

I truly can’t see the wisdom of trading away a genuine franchise QB, and I accept it may take the team a few seasons to re-establish their competitive quality as a winner. How that happens may involve a wholesale change of coaching personnel and some improved success in acquiring quality talent.

Completely blowing it up though is a mistake.
Somehow Russ named four teams he wanted to go?

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk
 

massari

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Trading Wilson shouldn't, and won't happen, unless they get Deshaun Watson.

They need draft picks, and DK is due for the megadeal. Personally hoping for moves like this:

Metcalf for two 1sts
Adams for a 1st
Wagner for 3rd
Poona for 3rd
Collier for Clelin Ferrell
 

HomerJHawk

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"Somehow Russ named four teams he wanted to go?"

And this following a 12-4 season. Russ is not happy here and was trying to force some sort of change. And now we sit at 3-7.

We'll see what happens next season. Not like anyone here has any influence on that. If Russ leaves, he leaves. Hopefully the deal presents us with some great personnel opportunities.
 
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Aros

Aros

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HomerJHawk":2iwwzjc7 said:
We'll see what happens next season. Not like anyone here has any influence on that. If Russ leaves, he leaves. Hopefully the deal presents us with some great personnel opportunities.

If Russ leaves it would be because the team allowed it. He is under contract and unless he pulled a Watson and refused to play another down, he's stuck here until we decide to trade him or he finishes out his contract.
 

pinksheets

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I'd be fine keeping Russ, if he acknowledges he's best as a point guard/game manager type who can do some explosivexstuff, as opposed to him thinking he's a Manning/Brady/Rodgers who can dissect defenses. He's not that tier.

I don't think he's easy to replace, but if he won't acknowledge his limitations, you're not going to win with him anyways. Pete here or not.
 

jamescasey1124

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sutz":jtee3rmv said:
I blame Fantasy Footaball. :twisted:

I blame people's parents. Parents who didn't teach their kidsds to lose and work harder instead of quitting and being a bitch. I also blame media for giving people's opinions too much spotlight.

I would love for people to stop talking about trading our best players. It would be awesome.
 

JustTheTip

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pinksheets":1s4w13lj said:
I'd be fine keeping Russ, if he acknowledges he's best as a point guard/game manager type who can do some explosivexstuff, as opposed to him thinking he's a Manning/Brady/Rodgers who can dissect defenses. He's not that tier.

I don't think he's easy to replace, but if he won't acknowledge his limitations, you're not going to win with him anyways. Pete here or not.

This is probably the fairest assessment of Russ's situation I have seen. And it surprises me a little as well.

I remember an interview Gruden had with Russ before he was drafted where Gruden was essentially giving him a pop-quiz on video sequences of defenses and was impressed with how quickly and concisely Russ responded.

I don't think it is so much that Russ can't do this as Pete's mandates have dulled the ability. I don't know how many times we saw Russ diagnose the defense only to not have enough time to make adjustments because he didn't even have the play until under 20 seconds left on the play clock.

Defenses don't buy his snap count fakes because what he is going to do is clockwork (not snap the ball until under 5 seconds left.)

The under 5 seconds left snaps hold many benefits for the defense. Rest, not having to rely on Russ's snap count, a jump on rushing Russ or getting a push to stop runs. All of this works against Russ even if he successfully diagnoses plays.

Now that Russ has lost some of his physical tools who knows how hard it would be to polish off some of the mental tools that Pete's system has tarnished over time.
 

evergreen

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The problem with not doing anything is our HOF middle linebacker is passing his peak but still costing peak $. Same with our qb who is not playing elite and hasn’t consistently for a long time. We have them and we suck. I agree that Pete should ride off into the sunset as our best coach ever. We have squandered our capital and it’s time to cut our losses. Yes you can point to stats that show Russ was great before the finger. But my eyes don’t tell me that. And playoffs??! He’s been very unclutch since the glory years…. Time catches up to everyone but Brady. We’ll see if he can get great again. Even when he was hot he was still hard on the D. Boom or bust. Either three and out or tw minute four play scoring drive. Somebody should research how many three and outs qbs have had per season. That could be interesting. It was easy to overlook his flaws when he was still awesome. Not so much anymore. Remember when he was the number one or two player in the top 100?
 

John63

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Aros":9gsmfuta said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.


This^^^
 

John63

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HomerJHawk":2gclio1p said:
"Somehow Russ named four teams he wanted to go?"

And this following a 12-4 season. Russ is not happy here and was trying to force some sort of change. And now we sit at 3-7.

We'll see what happens next season. Not like anyone here has any influence on that. If Russ leaves, he leaves. Hopefully the deal presents us with some great personnel opportunities.

except Wilson did not supply anything, you are once again assuming, and once again his agent said it in response to a question.
 

pinksheets

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John63":e52fsac8 said:
HomerJHawk":e52fsac8 said:
"Somehow Russ named four teams he wanted to go?"

And this following a 12-4 season. Russ is not happy here and was trying to force some sort of change. And now we sit at 3-7.

We'll see what happens next season. Not like anyone here has any influence on that. If Russ leaves, he leaves. Hopefully the deal presents us with some great personnel opportunities.

except Wilson did not supply anything, you are once again assuming, and once again his agent said it in response to a question.
Russ didn't fire his agent, so sounds like the leak was totally fine and intentional.
 

John63

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pinksheets":alnfikvi said:
John63":alnfikvi said:
HomerJHawk":alnfikvi said:
"Somehow Russ named four teams he wanted to go?"

And this following a 12-4 season. Russ is not happy here and was trying to force some sort of change. And now we sit at 3-7.

We'll see what happens next season. Not like anyone here has any influence on that. If Russ leaves, he leaves. Hopefully the deal presents us with some great personnel opportunities.

except Wilson did not supply anything, you are once again assuming, and once again his agent said it in response to a question.
Russ didn't fire his agent, so sounds like the leak was totally fine and intentional.


OR maybe he admonished his agent but chose not to fire him. once again you are assuming.
 

pinksheets

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John63":101897hi said:
pinksheets":101897hi said:
John63":101897hi said:
HomerJHawk":101897hi said:
"Somehow Russ named four teams he wanted to go?"

And this following a 12-4 season. Russ is not happy here and was trying to force some sort of change. And now we sit at 3-7.

We'll see what happens next season. Not like anyone here has any influence on that. If Russ leaves, he leaves. Hopefully the deal presents us with some great personnel opportunities.

except Wilson did not supply anything, you are once again assuming, and once again his agent said it in response to a question.
Russ didn't fire his agent, so sounds like the leak was totally fine and intentional.


OR maybe he admonished his agent but chose not to fire him. once again you are assuming.
He didn't do so publicly, which is telling if his agent is publicly pushing misinformation.

That'd mean Russ is as ineffective as managing his public relations as he is utilizing the middle of the field.
 

Sports Hernia

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Aros":224ovuze said:
Stop talking about trading Russell and DK and any of our top talent?

Ever hear the saying don't throw the baby out with the bathwater? Oh sure, I get where the notion is coming from. Get all you can!! Surplus Sale!

It's short sighted. Don't fall victim to emotion. Use your intellect. Message boards are synonymous with hyperbole. I am not saying there aren't some specific cases to debate where it could seem logical to deal a player here or there but let's all settle down, cool it and realize most of us are not in our right minds dealing with a 3-7 season we all expected would be 7-3 at this stage.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

There's no perfect solution here. I am not trying to provide that easy answer but if you press me, I am going to tell you that it's time to let Pete walk. Not John. Not Russ. Not DK. Not Lockett. I am convinced none of them are the problem. But Pete? He's been figured out, and he refuses to change philosophy even in the face of obviousness.

If only I had my crystal ball clear enough to see who we should select as the successor to Pete AND be equally as successful. Sadly, that crystal ball doesn't exist. So all I can do is hope and pray whomever is the next HC for this team can have half the success Pete did because that would still be a ton of success.
I’m normally with you in situations like this, but I think this situation is unfixable.
Band-aid solutions won’t work in my opinion. I think they need to clean out the front office and coaching staff at the bare minimum, and only stop there if you bring in proven names you know can fix it. Think a move like when the originally brought in Holmgren back in the day.

Other that that blow the whole thing up and start over. That’s something I never thought I’d say.
 

toffee

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I think we could all agree on

1. Russell Wilson wasn't happy with Hawk's offense philosophy and offense personnel which he announced publicly.
2. A very seasoned professional agent representing Russell named four teams that Russell will go if a trade with one of those four could be formulated. Russ didn't publicly deny his agent's announcement.
3. Wilson's camp leaked that Wilson stormed out of a meeting with Pete, Schotty on wanting more say on all offense matters. When he didn't get what he wanted, he stormed out. Pete didn't deny this event.
4. Russell voiced that he had no confidence on Hawks coaching staffs shortly after Waldron was hired.
5. We could also agree that during those months when Russell was complaining from show to show, Pete and John was very quiet, no public rebuttal.
6. None of us should doubt that John did reviewed offers on Russell, but couldn't make deals.

Based on the chain of events last off season, I like to think that Russell identified Pete as the problem of his struggle just like some folks in dot net, Russell tried to get Pete fired. Pete responded with firing of Schotty, hiring of Waldron. But somehow in all of these movements, Jody picked to let Pete stay which I think surprised Wilson.

What intrigued me was:
1. the hiring of Shane, Pete's idea without Russ's input? or Russ's idea Pete had no choice? did Pete even interviewed other OC candidates?
2. did Jody gave Pete a timeline, like if team sucked in 2021, he will be out? If so, Pete's on borrowed time.

I like to think there's an understanding between Jody and Pete, a timeline. I also like to think there's an understand between ownership and Russ that Pete was on borrowed time, a completely new coaching will come take over so Russ can cook. I think none, foresee that Russ's performance regressed so much, and his shortcoming were magnified so large.

I suspect Jody and her people are having sleepless nights, they tried to please everyone, Pete for a last dance, Russ just have to give Shane a chance, their decision may come back to bite them.
 

Jville

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The demise of the Seattle Seahawks is greatly exaggerated.

In the very simplest terms, 2021 is a rare year in which the team building process got hung up along the way and is late to the party.
 

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