Bruce Irvin was a reach

[Happypuppy]

He is what we wanted. I have seen one player with his speed...Fred Dean. He was about the same size too. In San Diego they traded him to the 49ers as he was one dimensional. It seemed to workout pretty good for SF.

 

[thegreeninyoureye]

For those of you that worry about his size look how big he was in college compared to now. He got a lot bigger! Hell be alright give the dude some time. He was never that stout against the run that will improve.

 

[HawkHack]

Hindsight is 20/20. Wilson was taken in the 3rd and played like a 1st rounder. Irvin was taken mid 1st round and played like a late 1st round rookie. Add to that how solid BWagz has been and I can't complain about our draft at all.

:13:

Once the guys are playing for us, who cares where they were drafted?

In last year's draft, we got Wilson, Wagner, Irvin, Turbin, Lane, Sweezy, Scruggs and Winston Guy. We also got Jaye Howard and Korey Toomer (I don't even know if they're still Seahawks).

Just pretend we got Wilson in the 1st, Wagner in the 2nd, Turbin and Irvin in the 3rd and 4th (in some order), and so on ...

Then all will seem right with the cosmos again.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

I said this after the Redskins game, he's not yet ready for the Leo role. As good of a pass rusher as he is, Clem is extremely good at holding up against the run, Sam Baker appeared to have his way with Irvin in the run game.

He's going to be a 7-10 sack guy on 3rd down, the long-term goal is that he can learn to be stout against the run. JPP had 4.5 sacks for New York as rookie then exploded with 16.5.

Let's see if Irvin can become an everydown guy.

 

[scutterhawk]

Isn't it time for the doom and gloom bandwagoners to go back into hiding?

How can you be a doom and gloom bandwagoner? Aren't those two separate concepts?

No, just two different bandwagons..One wagon gets it's wheels greased, while the other doesn't have wheels. :16:

 

[kobebryant]

9 sacks is a very solid rookie season.

But sacks don't tell the whole story. Pressure itself, is very important.

Irvin keeps some pretty good company in the pressure category: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2 ... ductivity/

 

[SonicHawk]

Calling a 1st round pick after 1 year reach is 100% acceptable. This isn't a 3rd rounder, this is the first pick of the draft. This guy is supposed to be a starter day 1 and show significant improvement all year long.

There is no question he got absolutely lit up vs. Atlanta. They ran to his side and he had no control of it. He's not an every down end and that's tough when you spent your 15th overall on him. He may never be an every down end.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Irvin is now 26 years old, so it's not like he's going to add a bunch of size or speed. He had 8 sacks, but 2 each came against the Packers, Panthers, and Jets. There was only one other game in which he had a whole sack, and that was Arizona. Other than that, he disappeared, and only had 18 total tackles all year, which is atrocious.

The #15 overall pick needs to be more than a situational pass rusher who only has success against bad offensive lines, in order to justify being selected that high.

He's not 26 until November, please don't exaggerate to make a point.

*Edit - I didn't see that ESPN posted that he's 26, sorry.

 

[The Battle #83]

i have hope for him

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Unless this kid grows a ton in the off season he will never be anything but a situational pass rusher. he has none of the run stopping skills Clemons has. He had a good season but he is very limited. We need an every down guy. We need a INTERIOR pass rush. Biggest need in the offseason.

Don't forget this is Clem's 5th (?) stop in the NFL. he was only a situational player who "couldn't play the run" before he got here. If you are saying Irvin is a reach because he is very raw and has a lot to learn yet, I would agree. I also think he has a chance to grow into the role of every down back, but if he doesn't, he is still a damn good situational player. If he can bring 8 to 10 sacks a year thats all good. Going forward, I agree we need interior push. Irvin and Clem will both be more effective once QB's know they can't just step up into a clean pocket to avoid the outside rush.

You bring up a very good point, Clem has a similar skill set (stronger, not as athletic) and didn't break out until he was 29.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Calling a 1st round pick after 1 year reach is 100% acceptable. This isn't a 3rd rounder, this is the first pick of the draft. This guy is supposed to be a starter day 1 and show significant improvement all year long.

There is no question he got absolutely lit up vs. Atlanta. They ran to his side and he had no control of it. He's not an every down end and that's tough when you spent your 15th overall on him. He may never be an every down end.

Here are the other DE/OLB types that went in the first round. So using your logic, who wasn't a reach?

perry 18 tackles 2 sacks
brockers 31 tackles 4 sacks
coples 30 tackles 5.5 sacks
Ingram 41 tackles 1 sack
McClellin 14 tackles 1.5 sacks
Jones 45 tackles 6 sacks
Mercilus 25 tackles 6 sacks

Just because a guy goes in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to be a star right away.

 

[kobebryant]

Calling a 1st round pick after 1 year reach is 100% acceptable. This isn't a 3rd rounder, this is the first pick of the draft. This guy is supposed to be a starter day 1 and show significant improvement all year long.

There is no question he got absolutely lit up vs. Atlanta. They ran to his side and he had no control of it. He's not an every down end and that's tough when you spent your 15th overall on him. He may never be an every down end.

The notion that he is supposed to be a starter day 1 is faulty. Off the top of my head; Jason Pierre-Paul, Aldon Smith, Nate Solder and Jay Cutler are amongst solid first rounders that didn't start day 1.

DE was our biggest need and there wasn't a DE in the entire draft that would start over Clem or Red day 1.

 

[kobebryant]

Calling a 1st round pick after 1 year reach is 100% acceptable. This isn't a 3rd rounder, this is the first pick of the draft. This guy is supposed to be a starter day 1 and show significant improvement all year long.

There is no question he got absolutely lit up vs. Atlanta. They ran to his side and he had no control of it. He's not an every down end and that's tough when you spent your 15th overall on him. He may never be an every down end.

Here are the other DE/OLB types that went in the first round. So using your logic, who wasn't a reach?

perry 18 tackles 2 sacks
brockers 31 tackles 4 sacks
coples 30 tackles 5.5 sacks
Ingram 41 tackles 1 sack
McClellin 14 tackles 1.5 sacks
Jones 45 tackles 6 sacks
Mercilus 25 tackles 6 sacks

Just because a guy goes in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to be a star right away.

To be fair to Brockers, thats a damn fine rookie season for an interior DL. But I hear what you are saying.

 

[SonicHawk]

Calling a 1st round pick after 1 year reach is 100% acceptable. This isn't a 3rd rounder, this is the first pick of the draft. This guy is supposed to be a starter day 1 and show significant improvement all year long.

There is no question he got absolutely lit up vs. Atlanta. They ran to his side and he had no control of it. He's not an every down end and that's tough when you spent your 15th overall on him. He may never be an every down end.

Here are the other DE/OLB types that went in the first round. So using your logic, who wasn't a reach?

perry 18 tackles 2 sacks
brockers 31 tackles 4 sacks
coples 30 tackles 5.5 sacks
Ingram 41 tackles 1 sack
McClellin 14 tackles 1.5 sacks
Jones 45 tackles 6 sacks
Mercilus 25 tackles 6 sacks

Just because a guy goes in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to be a star right away.

Nick Perry played 6 games.

Irvin had 17 tackles, is awful against the run and if doesn't get a great jump or blown assignment to get around someone with his speed he's been relatively ineffective.

He's still young and this offseason will be HUGE for him. He needs to bulk up and become something other than a 3rd and long threat.

I don't expect a first rounder to be a star, but a starter? Yes.

 

[scutterhawk]

Just because Aldon Smith became a force (thanks to Justin Smith) doesn't mean every rookie DE is going to come into the league and make hay. Irvin will continue to work and develop.

It isn't just because of Justin Smith, Aldon benefits from that whole Defensive line,,The Seahawks aren't there yet, Not even close.
Once Irvin gets a better supporting cast, he's tooled up and going to be a bastard to deal with.
I trust that Schneider and Co. know what they're doing.

 

[WestcoastSteve]

Calling a 1st round pick after 1 year reach is 100% acceptable. This isn't a 3rd rounder, this is the first pick of the draft. This guy is supposed to be a starter day 1 and show significant improvement all year long.

There is no question he got absolutely lit up vs. Atlanta. They ran to his side and he had no control of it. He's not an every down end and that's tough when you spent your 15th overall on him. He may never be an every down end.

Here are the other DE/OLB types that went in the first round. So using your logic, who wasn't a reach?

perry 18 tackles 2 sacks
brockers 31 tackles 4 sacks
coples 30 tackles 5.5 sacks
Ingram 41 tackles 1 sack
McClellin 14 tackles 1.5 sacks
Jones 45 tackles 6 sacks
Mercilus 25 tackles 6 sacks

Just because a guy goes in round 1 doesn't mean he's going to be a star right away.

To be fair to Brockers, thats a damn fine rookie season for an interior DL. But I hear what you are saying.

He plays inside? I shouldn't have included him then, Fletcher Cox had a monster season inside too with 5.5 sacks, but we signed Jason Jones to help the interior pass rush. We wanted a speed guy to take Raheem's Brock's spot and I think it's clear Irvin was the best guy to do that.

 

[Torris]

I wish we had Bruce Irvin. John Abraham was our only pass rusher to have more than 5 sacks.

 

[themunn]

He plays inside? I shouldn't have included him then, Fletcher Cox had a monster season inside too with 5.5 sacks, but we signed Jason Jones to help the interior pass rush. We wanted a speed guy to take Raheem's Brock's spot and I think it's clear Irvin was the best guy to do that.

Fletcher Cox was who I wanted with the number 12 pick, I didn't keep tabs on him at all this season so didn't realise he had that sort of production. That he was available to us at number 12 and we didn't take him makes me quite upset right now#

But indeed, it wasn't a DT we were looking for (though in retrospect I was interested in Dontari Poe too, as a raw but athletic possibility in the middle, as far as I'm aware he had an Irvin-type season, flashes of a high ceiling, but certainly not quite there yet).

 

[BASF]

How many times do we have to hear that he needs to bulk up before people realize he is the size Pete Carroll wants him. He has a specific role, same as Chris Clemons. Clemons is only 6 pounds heavier than Irvin. Irvin's birthday is Nov 1, 1987 as posted by West Virginia that actually had access to his birth records. Danny O'Neil has written about this question and that the Seahawks front office knew he was 24 when they drafted him. The incorrect birth date came from someone in the Seahawks media department who made a mistake.

For those who are so attuned to his draft position, I will point to you a quote from Pete Carroll, "It doesn't matter how we got them, once they are here, they are ours." Draft position means nothing to the better front offices in the league. Only the bad front offices concern themselves on their draft capital. So, the question is, why do you?

He is still learning how to play the position in the NFL, and has been pointed out it took Clemons a long time to learn how to play against the run, and the only coaching staff that got him there is this one. The question I ask myself about this is whether or not it was Dan Quinn, who has moved on, that was mostly responsible for Clemons light bulb going off. If that is the case, Irvin's learning curve may be a little longer than any of us would like.

 

[SonicHawk]

Bad teams have time for Irvin to learn to play against the run.