BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

[50yrpatsfan]

Well, you're talking as if someone in the NFL office has judgment, which is unfortunately not the case. Once this runaway train got loose and started careening all over the place, there was nobody at the top to say Whoa!

I agree it didn't start out as a Goodell plot to get the Patriots, but a complex investigation requires someone overseeing it who's not a half-wit and can keep it on a path of sanity. There's no checks and balances on Park Avenue. In a court, there would be a judge who'd say to Wells, what about this, what about that, I'm not going to allow this etc. Wells played the role of prosecutor, not judge.

Punishment in the NFL is in direct proportion to the amount of negative press the crime generated, not the crime itself.

It has been this way for all of our lifetimes. It is nothing interesting or new. Pats fans who've convinced themselves that the punishment is anything more than their turn as the whack-a-mole, or who have sat by and silently watched as it happened to everyone else and are now up in arms because it too happened to their team, don't get much sympathy from me.

As for the actual "crime", the whole thing is ridiculously overblown, but that doesn't mean that feigning stupidity to the metrics by which punishment has always been doled out in the NFL is that cute, either.

Basically, I don't disagree with anything you're saying, but to take what you're saying that seriously I think someone has to feign a ridiculously high level of naivete to how this whole shell game has forever worked. Instead IMO, if we're actually being straight with each other, neither you nor I are as naive as you're puporting to be in this post.

Good point about punishment and the negative press, which is why the lying leaks to Chris Mortenson about 2 psi's, which the NFL could have corrected at any time and didn't, were so damaging to NE.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

...and if it weren't for the 1st round draft choice, nobody would be taking it seriously. Brady won't serve a game, and even if he does, it will be fun to see how Belichick gets through that.

 

[Popeyejones]

For the record I think NE got off extremely light due to only reviewing the one game.

Do you know why they only reviewed one game?

Is it because the NFL only has a record of the halftime PSI check for that one game because that was the only game for which a complaint was made in advance of the game?

These are sincere questions, and we'd need to know the answers to them to know if the Patriots got off lightly or not.

And if it's true that they've been doing it for forever and that it's the competitive advantage you make it out to be, why have 31 other NFL teams spent forever not complaining about it?

Yes, I'm admittedly stirring the pot a bit with these questions, but I'm also serious about them.

 

[chris98251]

I think they were complaining, the situation where practice balls got on the field in a game.

The owners are not backing Kraft because they want to be champions also, the Patriots cheated, you never replied to the post above that I made about it. The other owners are not going to back someone who supports cheating to get an advantage against them. He would be black balled and the outsider looking in, the Al Davis of this generation.

Spygate, the player tampering, the tampering with coaches, deflategate, circumventing rules on injury reports, falsifying injury reports, purposely trying to confuse officials with plays about eligible receivers and ineligible receivers, no they don't do anything wrong in N.E.

 

[brimsalabim]

Have they been able to find a single former NFL QB to go on record that they believe Shady Brady's version of events?

 

[RichNhansom]

For the record I think NE got off extremely light due to only reviewing the one game.

Do you know why they only reviewed one game?

Is it because the NFL only has a record of the halftime PSI check for that one game because that was the only game for which a complaint was made in advance of the game?

I'm pretty confident the NFL wants this to go away. They don't want the history dredged up and for this to become bigger than it already is. I doubt it is because of lack of evidence for that Your assuming the only evidence that could be used is the air pressure. That game simply established the Patriots manipulated the football for an unfair advantage. There was also information in the report predating that game as well as a warning from 2004 for a similar event and complaints about slipping practice balls into games. If this were an actual investigation you can bet they would go through all the information and not isolate it to one game.

These are sincere questions, and we'd need to know the answers to them to know if the Patriots got off lightly or not.

And if it's true that they've been doing it for forever and that it's the competitive advantage you make it out to be, why have 31 other NFL teams spent forever not complaining about it?

There has been other complaints, it is why they took it seriously.

Yes, I'm admittedly stirring the pot a bit with these questions, but I'm also serious about them.

Here's the thing. So far the NFL has completely ignored what competitive advantage it may have given and there is some pretty damning evidence to support this has gone on for a long time. Looking at fumble rate, completion percentage as well as comp percentage in cold weather and QB rating to name a few. These all point to a significant change starting in 2007, the first year of the rule change that Brady and Manning lobbied for.

I seriously don't think anyone believes they only did this one time, including the NFL.

Keep in mind this is on the level of employment. Not criminal or court level at all. They need less proof than in a civil lawsuit to take action.

I'm still at work so I cannot go into as much detail as I would like. Please excuse typing.

 

[RichNhansom]

[urlTargetBlank][/urlTargetBlank]

Have they been able to find a single former NFL QB to go on record that they believe Shady Brady's version of events?

That's pretty funny. You have heard a few throw him under the bus but most have been pretty quiet. I guess if you don't anything nice to say.

 

[vonstout]

All the things I stated about the measuring, gauges, and the leaks/lies are all documented facts. The part about a conspiracy is a question, not a fact.

The Patriots fumble rate is no better or worse than many teams. Stories to the contrary are false. They have a good record on this, but have rarely led the league in this stat - in fact I'm not sure they ever

When you say "documented fact" for leaks and lies, please refer me to the documents or links where the person admits that he/she admits to your claims.

For turnovers:

Brady fumbles (total) first 6 years: 59; last 8years with deflated balls 36.
Brady picks first 6 years: 68; last 8 years with deflated balls 65
Kevin Faulk fumbles first 8 years: 23; his last 3 years with deflated balls 3
Wes Welker fumbles first 3 years:12; his last 6 years with deflated balls 12
BJ Green Ellis 0 fumbles in 4 years with deflated balls; 5 fumbles in 2 years with Cincy.
Amendola 10 fumbles in 4 years with Rams; 0 fumbles in 2 years with flat balls.

What are you basing your claim that NE's TOs are no better than other teams? I looked all the numbers above up. Are there other players that didn't have these huge changes? Yes. Are there any position players that had more TOs after 2007 than they did before 2007? Not that I found. I looked up total fumbles per team per year for the last 7 years on NFL.com. In 2010, the Pats LEAD THE LEAGUE WITH ONLY 9 TOTAL FUMBLES. They were 29th, 27th, 31st, 29th, and 27th in 5 other seasons and in 2013 were 9th. Maybe the deflator was sick a lot that year :sarcasm_on:. The teams that were better were typically dome teams. The articles that you claim are false we're based on plays/fumble. NE runs more plays than almost every NFL team and they play in some of the worst weather so based on the fumble rankings I showed above (fact), I believe the article. Guess how many times NE was 25th or better from 2000-2006? ONE. Now you provide your "facts" to prove the articles are false. There were some criticisms about the original data presented, but if I remember correctly, those were corrected with an update. Please don't submit the articles by actual statisticians that are Pats fans trying to dispute the statistical relevance.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

Here you go on the fumble statistics: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463 ... -advantage

 

[vonstout]

Here you go on the fumble statistics: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463 ... -advantage

Interesting that he only used three years. Notice in my note above that NE had a lot of fumbles in ONE YEAR out of the past eight. Surprise. That was in 2013. And even with that they were third best in the league. Add in the other 5 years where they were 29th, 32nd, 29th, 29th, and 32nd (the first year the new rule was implemented) nstead of just two and guess what, they are a statistical outlier like the original article said. Be careful when you claim things are false when the FACTS don't back you up. I don't know the guy that wrote the article, but I bet he's a Pats fan. I look things up myself. And the facts back up the statement that NE's fumble rate dropped dramatically after 2007. Go look it up yourself instead of taking everything you read as gospel.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

Here's Yahoo sports on the lies and leaks by the league. I don't agree with his (Dan Wetzel) assumption that the Patriots did something, but his article's main points are about the league's deceptive acts:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-ho ... 59796.html

Here's some detail from Mike Florio of PFT about the suspect measuring process at halftime:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -halftime/

From the Washington Post on the gauges and lack of proof that any balls were deflated:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

 

[50yrpatsfan]

Here you go on the fumble statistics: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463 ... -advantage

Interesting that he only used three years. Notice in my note above that NE had a lot of fumbles in ONE YEAR out of the past eight. Surprise. That was in 2013. And even with that they were third best in the league. Add in the other 5 years instead of just two and guess what, they are a statistical outlier like the original article said. Be careful when you claim things are false when the FACTS don't back you up. I don't know the guy that wrote the article, but I bet he's a Pats fan. I look things up myself. And the facts back up the statement that NE's fumble rate dropped dramatically after 2007. Go look it up yourself instead of taking everything you read as gospel.

The article puts the fumble rates bs in perspective. In no one year did they have the lowest fumbles, fumble stats are based on very low volumes so can be very misleading, and no teams have been as consistently good as NE year in and year out. And it was in 2007 that NE became primarily a passing offense.

Admit it, the low fumble theory is a load of crap.

 

[vonstout]

Here's Yahoo sports on the lies and leaks by the league. I don't agree with his (Dan Wetzel) assumption that the Patriots did something, but his article's main points are about the league's deceptive acts:
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-ho ... 59796.html

Here's some detail from Mike Florio of PFT about the suspect measuring process at halftime:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -halftime/

From the Washington Post on the gauges and lack of proof that any balls were deflated:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

I read articles about the Gage's before so I didn't look at that one. The one talking about the order of things doesn't prove or disprove anything. It's speculation that you latched onto as a means to discredit the officials. This article tries to paint the officials as idiots but then you think their memory is perfect when they say they think they used a specific gage several weeks before. The last article started of saying there is no proof of competitive advantage. I stopped at that point. I think my last two fumble posts show that there has been a drastic competitive advantage in the last 7 years. There is so much circumstantial evidence (texts, taking balls in to the bathroom, deflator nickname in the preseason, etc) that would convincingly return a guilty verdict in a civil court.

Dan Wetzel went to college in Mass, so there's a good chance he's a Pats fan.

 

[Sports Hernia]

@50yrs.........Admit it, Tommy Brady, Bill Bilichick, and Bob Kraft are cheaters and liars..... And like 95% of the rubes that are the Cheatriots fan base, you are drinking the Shady Brady Kool-aid and went back for 2nds and 3rds.

 

[vonstout]

Here you go on the fumble statistics: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2463 ... -advantage

Interesting that he only used three years. Notice in my note above that NE had a lot of fumbles in ONE YEAR out of the past eight. Surprise. That was in 2013. And even with that they were third best in the league. Add in the other 5 years instead of just two and guess what, they are a statistical outlier like the original article said. Be careful when you claim things are false when the FACTS don't back you up. I don't know the guy that wrote the article, but I bet he's a Pats fan. I look things up myself. And the facts back up the statement that NE's fumble rate dropped dramatically after 2007. Go look it up yourself instead of taking everything you read as gospel.

The article puts the fumble rates bs in perspective. In no one year did they have the lowest fumbles, fumble stats are based on very low volumes so can be very misleading, and no teams have been as consistently good as NE year in and year out. And it was in 2007 that NE became primarily a passing offense.

Admit it, the low fumble theory is a load of crap.

Once again, you are wrong. You make this way too easy. NE lead the league in fewest fumbles in 2007 and 2010. And the only perspective he gave is that he chose 3 years to try to make the numbers look good. You're proving that you'll believe whatever makes NE look innocent. I proved my points with facts.

The "low fumble theory" is the biggest part of deflategate. The deflated balls didn't impact the AFCCG, but the weather wasn't bad. But the deflator did it anyway. Brady obviously thought it gave him an advantage. Ne Played in a lot of bad weather playoff games since 2007. How many fumbles did they prevent with deflated balls?

WRs fumble balls too, except when they come to NE (see Amendola and Welker in previous post). And Tommy's interception dropped after 2007 too. You obviously didn't look at the stats I posted. And your statement that NE has always had low TO numbers is false too. Go look up their numbers for each year since 2000 when Belicheat took over. They were middle of the pack from 00-06. They've been way better than everyone since 2007. Coincidence? I think not.

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... lost/2014/

 

[ringless]

50 Years....

So just so I can understand. You are saying this is a very unfortunate series of coincidences

1. Brady himself lobbies for a rule change
2. When the rule goes into affect the fumble rates drop
3. The text messages back from May with the "Low life" as you put it ball boys calling himself the deflator.
4. That the Deflator messages and PSI really had to do with weight loss
5. That the Colts noticed earlier in the season the balls were too low
6. That the Colts notified the league before hand.
7. That the balls were actually tested and in another strike of luck they were well below
8. That the Patriots Balls deflated more than the Colts balls
9. That the ball boy went into the bathroom with the balls and changed his story several times
10. That Brady refused to turn over his text messages
11. That the league is out to ruin the face of the NFL because he is good looking and successful
13. That their had been several discussions about deflating/inflating balls and the only thing deflating would be brady rating
14. That Brady said he had never seen said Ball boy in his life (Yes there are pictures of them together, and he had been with the team since Before Brady)


At what point are those no longer coincidences and just might have some weight to them?

Is Aaron Hernandez guilty?

Did you know that in North Korea there are people that believe their Dear Leader is actually a divine God? If you tried to tell them differently or show them evidence there would be no way to convince them otherwise because its all they have none, and its what they want to believe. Despite the evidence that suggests otherwise - The more you Know

 

[Jville]

Isn't there a nursery rhyme that sums all of this up?

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall,
Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.
All the king's horses and all the king's men
Couldn't put Humpty together again

 

[Maulbert]

50 Years....

So just so I can understand. You are saying this is a very unfortunate series of coincidences

1. Brady himself lobbies for a rule change
2. When the rule goes into affect the fumble rates drop
3. The text messages back from May with the "Low life" as you put it ball boys calling himself the deflator.
4. That the Deflator messages and PSI really had to do with weight loss
5. That the Colts noticed earlier in the season the balls were too low
6. That the Colts notified the league before hand.
7. That the balls were actually tested and in another strike of luck they were well below
8. That the Patriots Balls deflated more than the Colts balls
9. That the ball boy went into the bathroom with the balls and changed his story several times
10. That Brady refused to turn over his text messages
11. That the league is out to ruin the face of the NFL because he is good looking and successful
13. That their had been several discussions about deflating/inflating balls and the only thing deflating would be brady rating
14. That Brady said he had never seen said Ball boy in his life (Yes there are pictures of them together, and he had been with the team since Before Brady)


At what point are those no longer coincidences and just might have some weight to them?

Is Aaron Hernandez guilty?

Did you know that in North Korea there are people that believe their Dear Leader is actually a divine God? If you tried to tell them differently or show them evidence there would be no way to convince them otherwise because its all they have none, and its what they want to believe. Despite the evidence that suggests otherwise - The more you Know

 

[Sports Hernia]

50 Years....

So just so I can understand. You are saying this is a very unfortunate series of coincidences

1. Brady himself lobbies for a rule change
2. When the rule goes into affect the fumble rates drop
3. The text messages back from May with the "Low life" as you put it ball boys calling himself the deflator.
4. That the Deflator messages and PSI really had to do with weight loss
5. That the Colts noticed earlier in the season the balls were too low
6. That the Colts notified the league before hand.
7. That the balls were actually tested and in another strike of luck they were well below
8. That the Patriots Balls deflated more than the Colts balls
9. That the ball boy went into the bathroom with the balls and changed his story several times
10. That Brady refused to turn over his text messages
11. That the league is out to ruin the face of the NFL because he is good looking and successful
13. That their had been several discussions about deflating/inflating balls and the only thing deflating would be brady rating
14. That Brady said he had never seen said Ball boy in his life (Yes there are pictures of them together, and he had been with the team since Before Brady)


At what point are those no longer coincidences and just might have some weight to them?

Is Aaron Hernandez guilty?

Did you know that in North Korea there are people that believe their Dear Leader is actually a divine God? If you tried to tell them differently or show them evidence there would be no way to convince them otherwise because its all they have none, and its what they want to believe. Despite the evidence that suggests otherwise - The more you Know

Game, set, and match go to our favorite Cards fan Ringless! :th2thumbs:

 

[chris98251]