BRADY/PATS PUNISHMENT OVER TURNED BY JUDGE. (Updated 9/3/15)

[canfan]

I wouldn't call the question of whether the balls were even low "minutia". That's the crux of the case. And it wasn't proven, not by a long shot. Goodell's punishments aren't proof of anything either, getting overturned all the time.

The league's science experiment at halftime of that game was comically flawed, and the Wells report will get ripped in court for the garbage it is. Brady won't serve a game, take that to Vegas.

The crux of the case is that the Patriots altered the balls AFTER they were inspected. Somebrady...I mean somebody, obviously felt this was enough of an advantage to risk breaking the rules not once but consistently over several years. They knowingly broke the rules, and not for the first time and need to be punished for it. Whether any real advantage was gained is the red herring all blind Patriot fans want us discussing. It takes the focus away from the fact that the Patriots cheated and then lied to cover it up. I believe the Patriot that implemented this routine breaking of the rules was Brady, as it is quite obvious from the text messages that nobody did anything to the balls without Brady's knowledge and direction. Nothing you can ever say, or do will ever convince me that the Patriots are not a stain on sportmanship and an embarrassment to the sport, the region of New England, and themselves. The majority of football fans wordwide feel exactly the same way, and the 4 SuperBowls won by the Patriots will always be mentioned with a smirk of distain anytime they are discussed by fans outside of New England. Deal with, live with and please go away.

 

[chris98251]

Jimmy Garoppolo coughs up five interceptions in practice,

This is going well especially since they have a virtual new secondary.







http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...-up-five-interceptions-in-practice/ar-BBkKfc2

 

[hawknation2015]

Jimmy Garoppolo coughs up five interceptions in practice,

This is going well especially since they have a virtual new secondary.







http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl...-up-five-interceptions-in-practice/ar-BBkKfc2

They will be lucky to be 1-3 through the first four games. Then Brady returns against the Colts, where he should receive a beautiful reaction from their fans.

:stirthepot:

 

[50yrpatsfan]

I wouldn't call the question of whether the balls were even low "minutia". That's the crux of the case. And it wasn't proven, not by a long shot. Goodell's punishments aren't proof of anything either, getting overturned all the time.

The league's science experiment at halftime of that game was comically flawed, and the Wells report will get ripped in court for the garbage it is. Brady won't serve a game, take that to Vegas.

The crux of the case is that the Patriots altered the balls AFTER they were inspected. Somebrady...I mean somebody, obviously felt this was enough of an advantage to risk breaking the rules not once but consistently over several years. They knowingly broke the rules, and not for the first time and need to be punished for it. Whether any real advantage was gained is the red herring all blind Patriot fans want us discussing. It takes the focus away from the fact that the Patriots cheated and then lied to cover it up. I believe the Patriot that implemented this routine breaking of the rules was Brady, as it is quite obvious from the text messages that nobody did anything to the balls without Brady's knowledge and direction. Nothing you can ever say, or do will ever convince me that the Patriots are not a stain on sportmanship and an embarrassment to the sport, the region of New England, and themselves. The majority of football fans wordwide feel exactly the same way, and the 4 SuperBowls won by the Patriots will always be mentioned with a smirk of distain anytime they are discussed by fans outside of New England. Deal with, live with and please go away.

"altered the balls"... but, the balls didn't measure low. You can concoct all the theories you want about before & after, but the balls weren't low, so what's your point again? They were lower than expected because nobody realized that psi goes down in cold temps. And then Wells chooses to go against the ref's testimony about which gauge he used to measure, and that's the only way those balls measure low.

A lot of doo-doo with no actual event or result at its core.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I wouldn't call the question of whether the balls were even low "minutia". That's the crux of the case. And it wasn't proven, not by a long shot. Goodell's punishments aren't proof of anything either, getting overturned all the time.

The league's science experiment at halftime of that game was comically flawed, and the Wells report will get ripped in court for the garbage it is. Brady won't serve a game, take that to Vegas.

The crux of the case is that the Patriots altered the balls AFTER they were inspected. Somebrady...I mean somebody, obviously felt this was enough of an advantage to risk breaking the rules not once but consistently over several years. They knowingly broke the rules, and not for the first time and need to be punished for it. Whether any real advantage was gained is the red herring all blind Patriot fans want us discussing. It takes the focus away from the fact that the Patriots cheated and then lied to cover it up. I believe the Patriot that implemented this routine breaking of the rules was Brady, as it is quite obvious from the text messages that nobody did anything to the balls without Brady's knowledge and direction. Nothing you can ever say, or do will ever convince me that the Patriots are not a stain on sportmanship and an embarrassment to the sport, the region of New England, and themselves. The majority of football fans wordwide feel exactly the same way, and the 4 SuperBowls won by the Patriots will always be mentioned with a smirk of distain anytime they are discussed by fans outside of New England. Deal with, live with and please go away.

"altered the balls"... but, the balls didn't measure low. You can concoct all the theories you want about before & after, but the balls weren't low, so what's your point again? They were lower than expected because nobody realized that psi goes down in cold temps. And then Wells chooses to go against the ref's testimony about which gauge he used to measure, and that's the only way those balls measure low.

A lot of doo-doo with no actual event or result at its core.

Sorry but you've been believing a lot of "doo doo" coming from Cheatriots nation and their propagandists.

 

[ringless]

I wouldn't call the question of whether the balls were even low "minutia". That's the crux of the case. And it wasn't proven, not by a long shot. Goodell's punishments aren't proof of anything either, getting overturned all the time.

The league's science experiment at halftime of that game was comically flawed, and the Wells report will get ripped in court for the garbage it is. Brady won't serve a game, take that to Vegas.

The crux of the case is that the Patriots altered the balls AFTER they were inspected. Somebrady...I mean somebody, obviously felt this was enough of an advantage to risk breaking the rules not once but consistently over several years. They knowingly broke the rules, and not for the first time and need to be punished for it. Whether any real advantage was gained is the red herring all blind Patriot fans want us discussing. It takes the focus away from the fact that the Patriots cheated and then lied to cover it up. I believe the Patriot that implemented this routine breaking of the rules was Brady, as it is quite obvious from the text messages that nobody did anything to the balls without Brady's knowledge and direction. Nothing you can ever say, or do will ever convince me that the Patriots are not a stain on sportmanship and an embarrassment to the sport, the region of New England, and themselves. The majority of football fans wordwide feel exactly the same way, and the 4 SuperBowls won by the Patriots will always be mentioned with a smirk of distain anytime they are discussed by fans outside of New England. Deal with, live with and please go away.

"altered the balls"... but, the balls didn't measure low. You can concoct all the theories you want about before & after, but the balls weren't low, so what's your point again? They were lower than expected because nobody realized that psi goes down in cold temps. And then Wells chooses to go against the ref's testimony about which gauge he used to measure, and that's the only way those balls measure low.

A lot of doo-doo with no actual event or result at its core.

Not nobody knew that balls deflated. I could tell you that from driving my car in Winter and seeing the tire pressure light on. However it still ldoesnt explain why the Pats balls dropped more than the Colts. In addition shouldn't the Colts Balls should have dropped more than the pats? I mean since they were inflated more if both loss 20% then there should've been a great overall drop in the Colts balls than the Pats but that wasn't the case.... The Pats Balls lost a greater percentage of PSI... You know that to be true.... If I have a ball at 100 PSI and someone else has one thats 90PSI and we both lose 10%. Then The Colts balls who were at the example of 100 should have lost 10 PSI while the Pats would have lost 9. That didn't happen. The Pats also lost a greater percentage of PSI? Does that really make sense to you?


the Patriots’ footballs had a standard deviation of .402 psi compared to .165 psi for the Colts’ balls. With Prioleau’s pressures, the standard deviations for the two teams are .410 psi and .144 respectively. So the Patriots balls had a standard deviation of pressure more than double that of the Colts. How can one explain that? Think about it. If you weren't a Pats fan, and just someone looking at the facts that alone would make it clear

Also the Patriots balls measurements were all over the place AFTER they were initially measured as compared to the Colts balls that stayed within a much closer range....

 

[pmedic920]

Thanks to all for minding your manners.
I'm impressed :{)

 

[rideaducati]

Where the hell is this 50yearpatsfan getting his information? I can't find anything he has posted to be true and all of it seems to be speculation. How the hell does he seem to know EVERYTHING that helps the Cheatriots case, but none of the rest of us can find those things ANYWHERE? He must be getting his news from Donnie in Southie.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Where the hell is this 50yearpatsfan getting his information? I can't find anything he has posted to be true and all of it seems to be speculation. How the hell does he seem to know EVERYTHING that helps the Cheatriots case, but none of the rest of us can find those things ANYWHERE? He must be getting his news from Donnie in Southie.

CPN.

Cheatriots Propaganda Network. 8)

 

[Sports Hernia]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/i ... lb-brandon

Maybe the mythical deer deflated the footballs?????

 

[rideaducati]

http://espn.go.com/boston/nfl/story/_/id/13031848/car-registered-new-england-patriots-lb-brandon

Maybe the mythical deer deflated the footballs?????

After he ran through the auto paint shop and got the exact same paint on him of an SUV that was hit just minutes earlier.

 

[BlackandGolden]

Just give me a live video feed on any bridge in the NE area the day after the appeal. I'll swig a beer for every jumper in a Brady jersey.

The appeal with Goodell is a foregone conclusion, nobody expects relief there. Goodell may offer to reduce it to 2 games but Brady won't accept that. He and the NFLPA will bring it to Judge Doty's federal court in Minnesota, and Doty will overturn the whole suspension just like he did for Jonathan Vilma, who Goodell suspended for 16 games.

The Wells report is so full of holes that the judge will have no choice but to trash it. Brady won't serve any suspension at all, of that I'm 100% certain. And I'll be back to take my medicine if I'm wrong about it.

Apples to oranges..

Vilma fought that suspension and won since it was Godell who did it.

In this case, Troy Vincent handed out the Pats' suspension, not Godell.

But even if Brady did go to court, he has no choice but to surrender his phone. If he believe he's innocent, he'd do it. After all, the saints players swore under oath in court for their innocence.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Just give me a live video feed on any bridge in the NE area the day after the appeal. I'll swig a beer for every jumper in a Brady jersey.

The appeal with Goodell is a foregone conclusion, nobody expects relief there. Goodell may offer to reduce it to 2 games but Brady won't accept that. He and the NFLPA will bring it to Judge Doty's federal court in Minnesota, and Doty will overturn the whole suspension just like he did for Jonathan Vilma, who Goodell suspended for 16 games.

The Wells report is so full of holes that the judge will have no choice but to trash it. Brady won't serve any suspension at all, of that I'm 100% certain. And I'll be back to take my medicine if I'm wrong about it.

Apples to oranges..

Vilma fought that suspension and won since it was Godell who did it.

In this case, Troy Vincent handed out the Pats' suspension, not Godell.

But even if Brady did go to court, he has no choice but to surrender his phone. If he believe he's innocent, he'd do it. After all, the saints players swore under oath in court for their innocence.

Facts are not the Cheatriots fanbase's friend. "In general", they have problems with reality.

 

[BlackandGolden]

Just give me a live video feed on any bridge in the NE area the day after the appeal. I'll swig a beer for every jumper in a Brady jersey.

The appeal with Goodell is a foregone conclusion, nobody expects relief there. Goodell may offer to reduce it to 2 games but Brady won't accept that. He and the NFLPA will bring it to Judge Doty's federal court in Minnesota, and Doty will overturn the whole suspension just like he did for Jonathan Vilma, who Goodell suspended for 16 games.

The Wells report is so full of holes that the judge will have no choice but to trash it. Brady won't serve any suspension at all, of that I'm 100% certain. And I'll be back to take my medicine if I'm wrong about it.

Apples to oranges..

Vilma fought that suspension and won since it was Godell who did it.

In this case, Troy Vincent handed out the Pats' suspension, not Godell.

But even if Brady did go to court, he has no choice but to surrender his phone. If he believe he's innocent, he'd do it. After all, the saints players swore under oath in court for their innocence.

Facts are not the Cheatriots fanbase's friend. "In general", they have problems with reality.

With the extreme amounts of evidence we see in this thread, it's quite difficult to be in the pats' defense. Their fumbling numbers in past years were so historically low that it looks nearly inhumane.

 

[Vetamur]

Looking at events these days..I now have changed my mind.

Brady will get off.

Goodell put the word out he needed other information, new information.. for the appeal to be successful. Now we have a report released saying the Wells report basically is trash.

And in a sense it is. Objectively, the science of it is. Not that I dont believe they werent deflating. But the NFL did a piss poor job of testing the balls...to the degree that one guy doesnt even know which of two needles he used.

In a court of law, a CIVIL lawsuit, Brady loses. There is far , far too much circumstantial evidence. Jurors and judges are allowed to use their own judgement.. they would see right through things like saying a guy is called Deflator because of his weight, or Brady not knowing who a certain person was who he has worked with for a decade..

But since Kraft accepted his punishment, its been looking more and more obvious that the feared back room deal did happen. Kraft fell on his sword in exchange for Brady getting to play. Stinks. But Brady is going to have his punishment either reduced to a fine only or to nothing at all.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Ok....a stupid question......Has anyone here done the deflation concept in a controlled environment with a ball? I would even ask for a basketball for the concept. I have thought about this a bit too. The reason I ask is my quad says that I need 7 lbs pressure on my tires. So Overfilling them would push them up too high for the shock absorber in theory to work properly. Just a suggestion. I may do it with my WSU fake baxketball.

Oh and by the way...







GO HAWKS. :thirishdrinkers:

 

[athanas]

Ok....a stupid question......Has anyone here done the deflation concept in a controlled environment with a ball?

Indeed.
A friend and I picked up an NFL regulation football, a gauge, and pump and did a few tests ourselves.
First, we did a "feel" test at 13.5/12.5/11.5/10.5 and while you could start to feel your fingers dig in more the less and less air the ball had, to be honest, it was only very apparent when you got below 11.
Until we went out and played catch in the rain.

I was an offensive lineman in school and I have the catching abilty to back it up. That being said, the less air in the ball, the easier it was to catch, ESPECIALLY in the rain. Fully inflated, it was dinging off my hands left and right. Below 11, I was hauling it in on a fairly regular basis, (and no, I wasn't sandbagging on the full tests while going for the lighter ones,).

After the ball was inflated to a specific PSI at room temperature, we tossed it in the fridge for an hour. Took it out, it was about a pound low. Tested it every minute and within 5 minutes, it was back to pre-fridge PSI range, (give or take a little due to gauge leakage,).

My friend, who is a big numbers guy, is planning on running some tests when he gets some free time to see the bounce pattern of a fully inflated ball vs. under inflated ball to see how that might play into a lost fumble after a strip.

The striking thing that I realized, though, that regardless of cheating or not, if this was something done intentionally by Brady or the Patriots organization, it was truly a stroke of genius. If someone tosses you a 12.5 PSI ball and a 11.0 PSI ball, the chances of you actually noticing it being that out of whack would be slim, (which is why I can see the refs not catching on to it while handling the balls in play,). BUT, the thing that stuck out the most is how my stone hands were bringing in soaking wet passes with ease on a ball inflated between 10.5/11psi.
The Pats had the golden goose until they got too sloppy with protocol and didn't watch how much air they were losing.

 

[253hawk]

It's not rocket science and it's no wonder that almost every flag team I've played on and against uses a softer ball with less air pressure. It also helps that there's no rules against what kind of ball (short of a NERF or something) or any kind of inflation specs.

Is it a huge advantage? Tough to say, because these are pros that can probably make the same catches more often than not irregardless of ball shenanigans, but all it takes is one dropped ball on a 3rd down, and suddenly that possession turns into a punt instead of a scoring drive which changes that #1 seed to a wild card if it ends up as a loss (I think the Cheats had 3 single-possession wins.) So now they have to play all of their playoff games on the road plus the extra wild card game.

 

[rideaducati]

This is going to be a hot topic at the end of this season WHEN the pats plays/fumble stats crash back to Earth.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Ok....a stupid question......Has anyone here done the deflation concept in a controlled environment with a ball?

Indeed.
A friend and I picked up an NFL regulation football, a gauge, and pump and did a few tests ourselves.
First, we did a "feel" test at 13.5/12.5/11.5/10.5 and while you could start to feel your fingers dig in more the less and less air the ball had, to be honest, it was only very apparent when you got below 11.
Until we went out and played catch in the rain.

I was an offensive lineman in school and I have the catching abilty to back it up. That being said, the less air in the ball, the easier it was to catch, ESPECIALLY in the rain. Fully inflated, it was dinging off my hands left and right. Below 11, I was hauling it in on a fairly regular basis, (and no, I wasn't sandbagging on the full tests while going for the lighter ones,).

After the ball was inflated to a specific PSI at room temperature, we tossed it in the fridge for an hour. Took it out, it was about a pound low. Tested it every minute and within 5 minutes, it was back to pre-fridge PSI range, (give or take a little due to gauge leakage,).

My friend, who is a big numbers guy, is planning on running some tests when he gets some free time to see the bounce pattern of a fully inflated ball vs. under inflated ball to see how that might play into a lost fumble after a strip.

The striking thing that I realized, though, that regardless of cheating or not, if this was something done intentionally by Brady or the Patriots organization, it was truly a stroke of genius. If someone tosses you a 12.5 PSI ball and a 11.0 PSI ball, the chances of you actually noticing it being that out of whack would be slim, (which is why I can see the refs not catching on to it while handling the balls in play,). BUT, the thing that stuck out the most is how my stone hands were bringing in soaking wet passes with ease on a ball inflated between 10.5/11psi.
The Pats had the golden goose until they got too sloppy with protocol and didn't watch how much air they were losing.

Thank you. You did not prove or disprove the point...but added leverage. The reason for the prove/disprove is the fact that in a vacuum, you can not make all assertions without imperfections. Second, we dont know what the ball scuff or the other determining factors may have been or will be. I would not presume you would scuff the football to make it better for yourself or better for the test. For that to take place, you would need one perfect ball and several unknowns. I do appreciate the work that you all are doing and I am so impressed. THANKS from the bottom of me heart. Peace.