Any Carroll defenders now?

[Elemas]

Jeez. Hope everyone was right. But, let’s be fair. Even if we get this mystical game manger QB and end up 5-12, there will be more excuses.

Personally, I’m all for 2-3 seasons of straight suckage with Drew Lock at the helm. Tear this thing down as you’re not going to compete with the Niners or Rams.

Spilt milk at this point. I hope they make the right decisions.

 

[ivotuk]

D. “Rub my D*ck” Watson? From $40M to $40M QB?

I’m doubting this. Here’s where I actually agree with PC (left with no choice as he dumped my favorite player). I think he’s looking to get that old thing back. If he’s smart, he’ll shy away from QBs in this draft. Stay away from high priced FAs, and nab us a good old top 5 pick next year.

Yeah, nit to be confused with Robert "sit on my d¡€k" Craft. There's a hearing Friday to determine to a degree Watson's fate. I think the NFL doesn't want to step into a well of hypocrisy and sit Watson again after he already sat one season, when R Craft 'took a dip' in a house for human trafficking and got a slap on the ass for the crime.

Watson gets off Friday. A determination is issued ny the NFL on his suspension ( if he does miss time, it won't be the whole season) , and by next weekend, he's in seahawks blue.

https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/news/hous ... ell-wilson

Don't forget "dog killing Vick," and "Never go anywhere without your Date Rape Drug Ben."

 

[Mase]

—. First, I know Wilson is good, very good, but to be honest when I heard the icon remark a year or so ago, i was done. I rolled my eyes, and frankly I haven’t stopped rolling them since. Best deep ball thrower I have seen, but for the love of god, can you hit a crossing route. People forget that this whole “acquire a good QB and Super Bowl is yours” motif is one dropped interception by Tartt from not existing. Montana couldn’t do it, Farve couldn’t do it, Manning didn’t do it, the Denver defense did.

—. If we stayed ultra healthy, we could win the division next year standing pat, but we wouldn’t have gone anywhere. And rebuilding with limited resources would take way longer than Wilson will be good. So why wait. I am much more “ upset” about losing Wagner, someone who actually was one of the greatest ever at his position. But I knew it was coming. I think Brooks slides in seamlessly, but it will be harder to watch Wags in another uniform than it will Wilson.

— We can try to resurrect a Mariota some other average QB, or acquire a good vet like Matt Ryan. Or draft a Willis. But at least we are building now, instead of just watching decay and the same old same old.

— So I say calm down. Let’s let the offseason unfold a little more. You might be surprised. Having said all that, if the idea is to start Geno, then I want everyone fired. Even the ticket takers

Mase

 

[TwistedHusky]

Ivotuk,

You don't think that Carroll's borderline incompetent gameplans contributed to this?

That the simplistic and pedestrian nature of our schemes did not lead our QB to wish for greener pastures?

And if that was the driver, then why begrudge that QB for wanting coaching that helps not hinders?

There is an interview with Greg Olsen where he was essentially ridiculing our gameplans.

You don't think Wilson notices that himself if Greg noticed in 1 year?

Of course, he would want to leave.

 

[keasley45]

Ivotuk,

You don't think that Carroll's borderline incompetent gameplans contributed to this?

That the simplistic and pedestrian nature of our schemes did not lead our QB to wish for greener pastures?

And if that was the driver, then why begrudge that QB for wanting coaching that helps not hinders?

There is an interview with Greg Olsen where he was essentially ridiculing our gameplans.

You don't think Wilson notices that himself if Greg noticed in 1 year?

Of course, he would want to leave.

Not answering for Ivotuk, but I don't see what in Wilson's performance, or his struggles reading straightforward coverages would lead anyone to believe that if things became more complex, that THAT would solve things for him.

OR

watching him miss reads constantly, how one could guve credence to the idea that Russ couldn't hit the simple patterns that were wide open, but somehow if there was more presnap motion that led to that same player being wide open, that he would have flourished.

It's like a 'musician' who can improv the hell out of a song, but who isn't capable of reading chopstix sheet music, claiming if it was beethoven's 5th that was in front of him, that the challenge would pull the best out of him...

 

[John63]

Ivotuk,

You don't think that Carroll's borderline incompetent gameplans contributed to this?

That the simplistic and pedestrian nature of our schemes did not lead our QB to wish for greener pastures?

And if that was the driver, then why begrudge that QB for wanting coaching that helps not hinders?

There is an interview with Greg Olsen where he was essentially ridiculing our gameplans.

You don't think Wilson notices that himself if Greg noticed in 1 year?

Of course, he would want to leave.

Let's add in that the media had said they were looking at other Qbs back in 2015. And we know for a fact that JS went to several QB pro days. Now I know it is okay for the team to do this well then it's okay for the Qb to question if the team really wants him.

Part of the problem with most fans is they demand the player be loyal to them and the team but don't give the same to expect the same from the team.

IF I knew my company was looking to replace me ai would be gone. So would anyone.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

John, he's gone. He wanted to leave. It sucks, but get over it and move on.

 

[NJlargent]

Twisted

You mentioned earlier that PC is a terrible game day coach who offset it with player development. Where’s that development been for the past 8 years??

My take is PC just bought himself a couple of years of excuses while he positions for his kid to take over. He’s not rebuilding at 70. Lol

 

[pittpnthrs]

To all the people saying all the team needed was a game manager type QB, you are about to get your wish. Enjoy the 4 to 6 win seasons for the next 10 years. At least the answer of 'was it Russ or Pete' will be answered.

What the team needs is a player that can move the chains consistently within the plays called on offense. Absent that, you can't plan, scheme or make logical adjustments.

The FO saw what they had in Russ and didn't value him the same way he valued himself. There are a lot of fans that see it the same way.

Again, we are about to see if your theory is correct.

Russ was good enough to get teams to 10-12 wins when they had no business getting that many wins. We'll see how that dink and donk QB you think the team needs works out.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Jeez. Hope everyone was right. But, let’s be fair. Even if we get this mystical game manger QB and end up 5-12, there will be more excuses.

Exactly. The blame will be pointed in every direction except for the person actually responsible for it and thats Pete Carroll.

 

[pittpnthrs]

My take is PC just bought himself a couple of years of excuses while he positions for his kid to take over. He’s not rebuilding at 70. Lol

His kid taking over is my worst nightmare. If that actually happens, I would have to seriously reevaluate my fandom.

 

[LTH]

I think that Pete Carroll does his best work with a young team. Young players buy into his philosophy of coaching... at some point it seems players stop buying in and it becomes a problem. I think Russ stopped buying in just like Sherm, just like a long list of players that ended up with huge ego's and left the team not realizing the impact that Carroll had on their careers. So many times these players go to other teams and they just don't have the success they had with the Seahawks . It seems at some point they all ways want to come back to the Seahawks. I think it's because they miss the culture that they stopped buying into in the first place. I think this will be the case with Wilson. For ten years Wilson has been in a system that has catered to him, built him up, and put him in the position to be successful... Not saying that he won't have success in Denver, but I guarantee that in a few years he will miss the Seahawks just like everybody else who leaves because other teams are not going to have the support system that the Seahawks give their players and this system is what brings success to these players.

I think the Hawks are going to be fine. they have some draft capital like they have not had for a VERY long time. It's been what 9-10 years since they have had a top ten draft? They will find a QB and they will get that QB to buy into what they are doing and be successful just like they always have done. This team works because of Carroll... because of the culture of the team, that is the key getting players to play beyond what they think they are capable of playing. Pete Carroll is a master at player development and player psychology and i think this will define his career one way or another.


LTH

 

[Elemas]

Against my doom and gloom outlook, I’ll happily admit being wrong if what you’re saying is right LTH.

One things for certain, things just got a lot more exciting!

 

[LTH]

Against my doom and gloom outlook, I’ll happily admit being wrong if what you’re saying is right LTH.

One things for certain, things just got a lot more exciting!

It absolutely did get more exciting... It's a tough thing to lose a player like Wilson. Wilson is a special player but one of the reasons he is special is because of Carroll. Carroll isn't the only reason Wilson is special but Carroll IMO was a huge influence on Wilson . If he can do it with Wilson he can do it with another QB. after all when wilson was drafted who thought he was going to be the QB he turned out to be?


LTH

 

[White Devil]

I'm fully behind Pete Carroll and John Schneider.

This whole situation was created by Russell Wilson, and his idiot Agent, Mark Rodgers setting him up with the Dan Patrick Interview. That violated Rule #1, "Always Protect the Team." Instead. RW put the Seahawks, and his offensive line on blast.

All the other players on the team have short NFL careers, yet here's the guy making more money than they'll ever see, complaining about their play, and worrying about his Legacy.

When Matthew Stafford and Aaron Donald were asked about their Legacy, they basically said "I don't worry about that stuff, it's all about working hard and playing hard for your teammates."

Wilson in the meantime is talking about all the great stuff he's going to do, putting out his cologne, a clothing line, wanting to own a team, etc etc.

Don't get me wrong, I love Russell, and I'm glad he's that ambitious, but he and his agent never took the thoughts and feelings of his teammates and all the assistant coaches in to consideration.

I think he's sincerely going to regret going to Denver. They're in flux, newish GM., new Head Coach, ownership is unsettled. What if they get a Mike Brown (Bengals) or Houston Texans type owner?

Lat year after the Dan Patrick issue, Carson Palmer was interviewed about Russell giving the Seahawks 4 teams that he'd be willing to be traded to. (Absolutely foolish picks!) Carson said "You have to be careful about thinking that the Grass is Greener on the other side of the fence, because a lot of times when you get over there, it's all manure"

I was angry yesterday because my feelings were hurt. But after getting through all that, I wish Russell Wilson the best, but I'm a Seahawks fan. And after Aaron Rodgers contract came out, it's easy to see why Pete and John had to move on.

I'm sure they have some ideas about our next QB, just as long as it isn't Jordan Love, aka Charlie Whitehurst.

Good luck Russell Wilson, and Go Hawks!

+1

 

[TwistedHusky]

NJ,

I said Carroll's strength WAS player development. (It was also defense)

Carroll conducted a system of football arbitrage paired with a focus on upside instead of skill/ability. This meant more raw prospects, some that did not pan out (like Simon), and some that did (like Carson).

Carroll's greatest strength is seeing greatness in someone and extracting it. He is also tremendously good at getting guys to want to play for him. Guys will initially run through walls for him, but after a few years they seem to sour and it stops working.

I really think that Carroll is holding the chair for his son. And this is going to end badly for us as fans.

He should be beloved. But I think he will be thought of in the same vein as the guy who destroyed the Bulls, or maybe how we think about Tom Flores here. And if Wilson wins in Denver (which I believe he will) then a lot of people will start reevaluating how Carroll used Wilson and the results he got with him in the past 6-7 years.

I don't think Carroll is capable anymore. He is probably a lower-tier coach at this point.

-Lost most of his strengths, which makes his weaknesses all the more significant.
-Might have never been even an average gameday coach.
-Bottom tier in tactics, strategy, and game-planning.
-Barely .500 without Wilson...with almost 6 years NFL coaching covering that period.

Add that we are now one of the worst teams draft success in the past half-decade and fielded some of the worst defenses in the history of the league the past few years? What CAN he do well now?