Andrew luck

[Ramfan128]

He played poorly. Doesn't mean he's not a great QB. People have put him in the elite category a bit too soon, but IMO his play last year warranted that.

Every player has bad games. Teammates play a huge part in how successful you are...Wilson/Luck reminds me of Brady/Manning...

Eventually Brady just got there, but if you remember back to when they won 3 superbowls in 4 years, Brady was almost like Eli Manning when he won superbowls, and Wilson now....good player...all star caliber....clearly not elite.

And yet people started the "I'd take Brady over Peyton" because Brady was a "winner".

Completely ignoring the fact that the Patriots had a lot more talent than the Colts did starting out. The Colts were horrific and Peyton carried them, and now Luck is doing the same thing. The talent that surrounded Peyton Manning with the Colts at the end of his reign was putrid. That's what Luck started with. The bad division allowed the Colts to have immediate success, but otherwise he probably would have followed Peyton Manning's footsteps in having a bad rookie year in terms of W/L record.

In a vacuum it's too difficult to judge players against one another...too much bias obviously hurts that as well. Wilson came into the NFL and started with a superior team. Arguably the best CB, FS, SS, MLB and RB in the NFL. Luck had nothing even close to that. Offense and defense affect one another - not just in a game (field position/turn overs), but in practice. I'd imagine Wilson has gotten a bit better throwing against Sherman in practice...

So now replace Luck and Wilson and play it out in your mind...Seahawks are the best team in the NFL by far, while the Colts don't even make the playoffs. Wilson is still a franchise QB, but he's not even close to Luck.

 

[Hasselbeck]

He's been really bad the first two weeks, and I've been his biggest supporter on this board.

 

[Uncle Si]

He played poorly. Doesn't mean he's not a great QB. People have put him in the elite category a bit too soon, but IMO his play last year warranted that.

Every player has bad games. Teammates play a huge part in how successful you are...Wilson/Luck reminds me of Brady/Manning...

Eventually Brady just got there, but if you remember back to when they won 3 superbowls in 4 years, Brady was almost like Eli Manning when he won superbowls, and Wilson now....good player...all star caliber....clearly not elite.

And yet people started the "I'd take Brady over Peyton" because Brady was a "winner".

Completely ignoring the fact that the Patriots had a lot more talent than the Colts did starting out. The Colts were horrific and Peyton carried them, and now Luck is doing the same thing. The talent that surrounded Peyton Manning with the Colts at the end of his reign was putrid. That's what Luck started with. The bad division allowed the Colts to have immediate success, but otherwise he probably would have followed Peyton Manning's footsteps in having a bad rookie year in terms of W/L record.

In a vacuum it's too difficult to judge players against one another...too much bias obviously hurts that as well. Wilson came into the NFL and started with a superior team. Arguably the best CB, FS, SS, MLB and RB in the NFL. Luck had nothing even close to that. Offense and defense affect one another - not just in a game (field position/turn overs), but in practice. I'd imagine Wilson has gotten a bit better throwing against Sherman in practice...

So now replace Luck and Wilson and play it out in your mind...Seahawks are the best team in the NFL by far, while the Colts don't even make the playoffs. Wilson is still a franchise QB, but he's not even close to Luck.

This sort of sums up the whole argument between any QB really. While I agree with some points, others are assumptive hyperbole or contradiction. We don't know the impact that the other QB would have on those respective teams. It also ignores other factors (while Brady's "team" may have been better than many of Mannings, the Colts offensive weapons are far better, outside the couple years of Randy Moss.. so in that, Mannings stats are inflated while Brady's wins are).

Its impossible to say Luck is better than Wilson, or vice versa based on how one would fit with the other team. How would luck survive Seattle's O-line? Is Seattle's WR corp that much better that Luck would be far more successful? or are we just saying Luck as the Seattle QB would win as much as Wilson because of Lynch and the D?

The argument is fun, but suggesting a definitive answer exists beyond your own chosen measurable's makes the whole thing moot.

That said... both are really good.. I dont know if they are the next coming of Favre and Manning though.

 

[bandiger]

He's been really bad the first two weeks, and I've been his biggest supporter on this board.

I put more blame on the GM and Head Coach. They made a mistake in allowing Arians to leave, he would have been perfect for Luck.

 

[Ambrose83]

He's not as good as people think and it's never his fault. . Remember this is the year supposedly he has no more excuses w gore and johnson. Yet he has played awful the first 2 weeks , just so happens he's played teams with top 10 defenses. Not the arc south.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

He's not as good as people think and it's never his fault. . Remember this is the year supposedly he has no more excuses w gore and johnson. Yet he has played awful the first 2 weeks , just so happens he's played teams with top 10 defenses. Not the arc south.

I think most people who know the game of football knew that Gore and Johnson wouldn't help him as much as improving the O-Line or defense. Luck doesn't need more weapons, he already has plenty. I think Gore will help as he's never had a good RB, but I never really understood them reaching out for Johnson, especially if they are using a first round pick on a WR. As much as I don't care for Dilfer on TV, he said on the pregame show that the Colts were a flawed team. About time someone mentioned that they have no defense and can't run the ball or protect their QB.

Money should have been spent on their front 7 and OLine.

 

[StoneCold]

Early Gore was ripping off some big runs. Almost everyone was called back by holding. Luck never had time to throw. Indy ahs the worst O line I've seen this year. Still Luck tossed up some poor decisions that got picked. If I'm the coach I'm none to happy to with that.

I think it goes to show that the QB can be good, but without a good or even a decent Oline, they can look crappy. RW has not looked that good this year either. Not as bad as Luck, but not good.

SC

 

[Hawk-Lock]

Early Gore was ripping off some big runs. Almost everyone was called back by holding. Luck never had time to throw. Indy ahs the worst O line I've seen this year. Still Luck tossed up some poor decisions that got picked. If I'm the coach I'm none to happy to with that.

I think it goes to show that the QB can be good, but without a good or even a decent Oline, they can look crappy. RW has not looked that good this year either. Not as bad as Luck, but not good.

SC

The Oline doesn't help him at all, but the fact that the Indy defense is so bad he feels like he has to force the ball down field to give his team a chance. If RW played with an awful defense, I think we would see his INT's increase.

The Colts GM should be fired. Acquiring both Andre Johnson and Phillip Dorsett made no sense.

 

[StoneCold]

Early Gore was ripping off some big runs. Almost everyone was called back by holding. Luck never had time to throw. Indy ahs the worst O line I've seen this year. Still Luck tossed up some poor decisions that got picked. If I'm the coach I'm none to happy to with that.

I think it goes to show that the QB can be good, but without a good or even a decent Oline, they can look crappy. RW has not looked that good this year either. Not as bad as Luck, but not good.

SC

The Oline doesn't help him at all, but the fact that the Indy defense is so bad he feels like he has to force the ball down field to give his team a chance. If RW played with an awful defense, I think we would see his INT's increase.

The Colts GM should be fired. Acquiring both Andre Johnson and Phillip Dorsett made no sense.

Indy was stout against the run, for the most part, and they gave up some pass plays, but nothing too horrendous. Granted Jets O is not the greatest and only scored 20 points. Give Luck 1.5 more seconds per play and ask Gore not to fumble on the half yard line and they make a game of it.

 

[Ambrose83]

He's not as good as people think and it's never his fault. . Remember this is the year supposedly he has no more excuses w gore and johnson. Yet he has played awful the first 2 weeks , just so happens he's played teams with top 10 defenses. Not the arc south.

I think most people who know the game of football knew that Gore and Johnson wouldn't help him as much as improving the O-Line or defense. Luck doesn't need more weapons, he already has plenty. I think Gore will help as he's never had a good RB, but I never really understood them reaching out for Johnson, especially if they are using a first round pick on a WR. As much as I don't care for Dilfer on TV, he said on the pregame show that the Colts were a flawed team. About time someone mentioned that they have no defense and can't run the ball or protect their QB.

Money should have been spent on their front 7 and OLine.

didnt the colts have a top 15 d last year? and i this game they only gave up 10 pts going into the 4th qtr.. they also play in a weaker overall conference. They are a flawed team and the fact they made it to the AFC champ game last year speaks volumes of the quality of that conference. My point is every expert said ok now he has no excuses, the dude is still a turnover machine and hes not doing it all on his own. he gets every excuse made for him when he plays like crap and everytime they do well its only because of him.

 

[canfan]

I think he is a very good QB. The problem comes from over exposure. The national media trot out his stats and use them to proclaim him the new Messiah of football, ignoring that he has been gifted 5 or 6 wins a year by facing the Texans, Jaguars, and Titans and is a .500 QB against the rest of the league. Any poor decision becomes a failure on the surrounding team and never on him because his narrative was set long before he ever played a professional snap. People get sick of hearing it and do their own over reaction to a bad outing with an outcry of "Luck sucks", which is equally ridiculous as the national media take. He is a QB with an incredible football IQ and every physical attribute you would want in your team's QB. I believe he will one day match the hype with his performance on the field. He's not there yet.

The reaction from our fan base is likely more pronounced than in many markets because Russell Wilson suffers from the mirror image of the "Luck Effect". The national narrative is that Wilson is surrounded by superior talent and is along for the ride. The fact that he deals with an O line that is worse than Luck's and a receiving core that that has often consisted entirely of undrafted players, and plays in a division with what have been 3 top 10 defenses ever since he arrived gets him no more credit than a bad game gets Luck any blame. I seriously believe that if Russell retires after a 15 year career and say 3 SB rings and owns a half a dozen QB records, somebody like Pete Priscoll will tweet out "see, I told you he couldn't last".

 

[Seanhawk]

He is a great QB who is responsible for the entire offense. He does all of the line protections and has complete audible control of the offense, he was constantly making the right calls tonight and got overwhelmed by a top 5 defense. The picks were all in 1v1 situations and the first that put them in a hole was off of Andre Johnsons hands. His team was down and he was trying to get them back in it.

None of his picks were as inexcusable as the RW screen pass int.

You can't possibly be arguing that the first pick should have been caught can you?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Jay Mohr just lit up Luck on his radio show..........called him supremely overrated, even comparing him to buttfumble Sanchez.

 

[Ambrose83]

I think he is a very good QB. The problem comes from over exposure. The national media trot out his stats and use them to proclaim him the new Messiah of football, ignoring that he has been gifted 5 or 6 wins a year by facing the Texans, Jaguars, and Titans and is a .500 QB against the rest of the league. Any poor decision becomes a failure on the surrounding team and never on him because his narrative was set long before he ever played a professional snap. People get sick of hearing it and do their own over reaction to a bad outing with an outcry of "Luck sucks", which is equally ridiculous as the national media take. He is a QB with an incredible football IQ and every physical attribute you would want in your team's QB. I believe he will one day match the hype with his performance on the field. He's not there yet.

The reaction from our fan base is likely more pronounced than in many markets because Russell Wilson suffers from the mirror image of the "Luck Effect". The national narrative is that Wilson is surrounded by superior talent and is along for the ride. The fact that he deals with an O line that is worse than Luck's and a receiving core that that has often consisted entirely of undrafted players, and plays in a division with what have been 3 top 10 defenses ever since he arrived gets him no more credit than a bad game gets Luck any blame. I seriously believe that if Russell retires after a 15 year career and say 3 SB rings and owns a half a dozen QB records, somebody like Pete Priscoll will tweet out "see, I told you he couldn't last".

this is 100% spot on.. I think he is very good, key here GOOD, hes not great and the excuses at some point need to stop, those 2 Ds he faced are what RW sees 6 times a year in the NFC west or better and his numbers most games are a hell of alot better with a worse o line and some games lynch does not run for much yardage either.... the luck hype is over the top.. how about we just call it on how HE actually plays and not give him every single pass you can for anything bad that happens to the colts. The dude leads the NFL in turnovers.. sorry thats not because he has no team around him....

 

[Ambrose83]

Jay Mohr just lit up Luck on his radio show..........called him supremely overrated, even comparing him to buttfumble Sanchez.

is there a link to this? would love to hear it

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Jay Mohr just lit up Luck on his radio show..........called him supremely overrated, even comparing him to buttfumble Sanchez.

is there a link to this? would love to hear it

You can listen on Fox Sports

http://www.foxsportsradio.com/media/

I also think you can DL the episodes on iTunes, not sure bout that though. But I think I've heard that on his show.

 

[Hasselbeck]

He's been really bad the first two weeks, and I've been his biggest supporter on this board.

I put more blame on the GM and Head Coach. They made a mistake in allowing Arians to leave, he would have been perfect for Luck.

Well yeah Grigson is terrible. He's the same guy that traded a 1st rounder for Trent Richardson who may not even be in the league any more

The Arians thing was a much more sticky situation. Obviously in hindsight, yeah Arians is a better coach than Pagano.. but the PR nightmare that would have ensued after firing a guy that just recovered from Leukemia was enough to scare them off that decision.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Early Gore was ripping off some big runs. Almost everyone was called back by holding. Luck never had time to throw. Indy ahs the worst O line I've seen this year. Still Luck tossed up some poor decisions that got picked. If I'm the coach I'm none to happy to with that.

I think it goes to show that the QB can be good, but without a good or even a decent Oline, they can look crappy. RW has not looked that good this year either. Not as bad as Luck, but not good.

SC

The Oline doesn't help him at all, but the fact that the Indy defense is so bad he feels like he has to force the ball down field to give his team a chance. If RW played with an awful defense, I think we would see his INT's increase.

The Colts GM should be fired. Acquiring both Andre Johnson and Phillip Dorsett made no sense.

So when its 0-0 its the defenses fault he throws what was almost a pick six...mhhmmm :roll:

Since the start of LAST year Luck leads the entire NFL in total turnovers. I dont care what the supporting cast is around you that makes you an average QB at best and its not like the trend gets better in the playoffs. In the same ammount of games in the playoffs Sanchez has the same ammount of TDs as Luck with WAY WAY less turnovers

Im sure this will get bumped in the next couple weeks though because he has to go through 3 games against the Titans, Jags and Texans and im sure he and the colts will win at least 2 of them

 

[TheRealDTM]

Early Gore was ripping off some big runs. Almost everyone was called back by holding. Luck never had time to throw. Indy ahs the worst O line I've seen this year. Still Luck tossed up some poor decisions that got picked. If I'm the coach I'm none to happy to with that.

I think it goes to show that the QB can be good, but without a good or even a decent Oline, they can look crappy. RW has not looked that good this year either. Not as bad as Luck, but not good.

SC

The Oline doesn't help him at all, but the fact that the Indy defense is so bad he feels like he has to force the ball down field to give his team a chance. If RW played with an awful defense, I think we would see his INT's increase.

The Colts GM should be fired. Acquiring both Andre Johnson and Phillip Dorsett made no sense.

So when its 0-0 its the defenses fault he throws what was almost a pick six...mhhmmm :roll:

Since the start of LAST year Luck leads the entire NFL in total turnovers. I dont care what the supporting cast is around you that makes you an average QB at best and its not like the trend gets better in the playoffs. In the same ammount of games in the playoffs Sanchez has the same ammount of TDs as Luck with WAY WAY less turnovers

Im sure this will get bumped in the next couple weeks though because he has to go through 3 games against the Titans, Jags and Texans and im sure he and the colts will win at least 2 of them

When it was 0-0 the pick bounced up and off the hands of Andre Johnson. If that happened to RW no one would be blaming him.

 

[ilikedlargent]

To people saying they've done well because division sucks. ....you could say the same about Patriots and their division . Even the Broncos division for that matter