Again on Bobby Wagner.

[Smellyman]

leading the league in tackles.

If Wright, Irvin and Smith can get on his level they will be even more formidable.

Wright has been struggling a bit and I haven't even noticed Irvin and Smith much. Does that mean they are playing solid or just non factors? because the underneath stuff is there more than it has been.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Don't you listen to the media? Kuechly is better. Don't ask for hard evidence that he is, just...Trust popular opinion, it can't be wrong.

In all seriousness, that being said, tackle numbers are still overrated, particularly because great linebackers get to play cleanup duty more if their nearby compatriots aren't great at being in position regularly.

 

[Smellyman]

I agree they are overrated and by default MLB's are going to have the majority. I just think he was playing lights out before I looked at the tackle numbers just now and the other LB's have been absent. Just wondering if others here are underwhelmed by KJ, Irvin and Smith so far. Smith and Irvin may be rounding into shape after sitting out so much, but KJ needs to be KJ again.

But your sarcasm is true. Wagner has been every part Kuechly has been and Wagner has been way over looked. Even by the Hawk fanbase

 

[sc85sis]

KJ was better on Sunday, but he still doesn't seem quite on the level he was last season. Same with Malcolm. Irvin played OK in SD, other than that stupid penalty, and was out on Sunday due to a rib injury.

 

[vin.couve12]

This is why I would have used a 1st on Wagner in that draft (I know that sounds crazy). I knew he could be had in the 2nd though and didn't care what we did with the 1st pick. Unlike some other overrated LBs, Wagz also makes what's called impact tackles instead of a lot of downfield tackles because he's allergic to blockers. What that does for the Hawks is lead to more 3rd and longs where we can bring in the nickel line instead of third and shorts where we might stay in a more base D.

Wagner is what you call a scheme diverse LB. He could literally play any LB spot and succeed.

 

[SomersetHawk]

Don't you listen to the media? Kuechly is better. Don't ask for hard evidence that he is, just...Trust popular opinion, it can't be wrong.

I'm happy with the Kuechly hype, he might be better than Bobby, but it's close, and we'll lock up our guy for a lot less than the Panthers.

While they're at it they can continue saying Luck's better than Wilson too.

 

[Steve2222]

Russell Wilson will be getting an assload of money regardless of media QB rankings.

 

[Largent80]

I said this after the SD game. Wagner played best that day and has outplayed all the others so far by a wide margin.

KJ Wright simply needs to get it together and I was expecting his best season in a contract year. Smith is right behind him so far.

 

[HomerJHawk]

Its the heat. Wait until the cooler weather sets in.

 

[McGruff]

I've alwasy been of the opinion that Carroll will let linebackers come and go. They won't ever be priority re-signings. Not KJ, not Smtih, not Irvin. I think Carroll believes that any moderately big, incredibly fast guy can play back there.

But Wagner is changing that perception IMO. I don't think we re-sign the other three, but Wagner has got to be pretty high on the list.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Don't you listen to the media? Kuechly is better. Don't ask for hard evidence that he is, just...Trust popular opinion, it can't be wrong.

In all seriousness, that being said, tackle numbers are still overrated, particularly because great linebackers get to play cleanup duty more if their nearby compatriots aren't great at being in position regularly.

I think kuechly is better....

On a side note, why does the .net always feel so disrespected and have to say X player is better than X player?

 

[Grahamhawker]

I've alwasy been of the opinion that Carroll will let linebackers come and go. They won't ever be priority re-signings. Not KJ, not Smtih, not Irvin. I think Carroll believes that any moderately big, incredibly fast guy can play back there.

But Wagner is changing that perception IMO. I don't think we re-sign the other three, but Wagner has got to be pretty high on the list.

Yes, but who on the LB corp since PC has been here has appeared irreplaceable? Lofa...Hawthorne...Hill....C..C..Curry ?
Mostly I agree; get a big, fast LB, coach 'em up, see what they can do for a couple years seems to be the plan. But none of the have been near Wagner's caliber.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Have to look at KJ Wright getting and extension and Wagner getting one afterwards....Irvin and Smith will be replaced by Saint Louis or another eventual pick next year....Wright is physical against the teams against the divisional opponents, which is what the roster is built for.

 

[McGruff]

Have to look at KJ Wright getting and extension and Wagner getting one afterwards....Irvin and Smith will be replaced by Saint Louis or another eventual pick next year....Wright is physical against the teams against the divisional opponents, which is what the roster is built for.

Wright will hit free agency to test the market. He'll get the Tate treatment. We've got a dollar value that is not high attached to him. We will not get into a bidding war. If someone offers more than whatever that figure is, he'll walk.

 

[vin.couve12]

Don't you listen to the media? Kuechly is better. Don't ask for hard evidence that he is, just...Trust popular opinion, it can't be wrong.

In all seriousness, that being said, tackle numbers are still overrated, particularly because great linebackers get to play cleanup duty more if their nearby compatriots aren't great at being in position regularly.

I think kuechly is better....

Why do you think he's better?

I scouted MLB heavily knowing we were going to lose Heater, but I'd like to know why you think that.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

I said this after the SD game. Wagner played best that day and has outplayed all the others so far by a wide margin.

KJ Wright simply needs to get it together and I was expecting his best season in a contract year. Smith is right behind him so far.

I thought KJ Wright had an awesome game against Denver.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

I feel Wagner is more well rounded than Kuechly, especially when you consder coverage skills/ability. He's definitely the better fit for our team, IMO.

 

[Mick063]

This is a topic I have pounded on these forums since OTA and the speculation of who to keep or not keep.

Wagner is on my "must keep" list. He is a top five mike. He would be very difficult to replace.

The defense thrives on passing situations. They don't get there unless the mike gets them there on first down.

 

[vin.couve12]

This is a topic I have pounded on these forums since OTA and the speculation of who to keep or not keep.

Wagner is on my "must keep" list. He is a top five mike. He would be very difficult to replace.

The defense thrives on passing situations. They don't get there unless the mike gets them there on first down.

Agreed. However, I would add that the most important part of run defense in an under or 3-4 is that 1 tech/NT position and Bane really is the pillar of that, as Pete himself says. Where Wags separates himself from basically everyone else except Bowman is the ability to both get to any gap laterally that he needs to and also being able to plug a gap with force to remain gap sound because in our D the Mike actually is responsible for one of the two A gaps a large portion of the time. The funniest thing to me about Keuchly is that he hardly ever gets touched. He goes for angles to beat blocks and will even retreat from a block at an angle just to get the tackle. The greatness of Keuchly is one of the more overstated ILB stories I've ever seen. He's a great player, but more of a WLB than a true Mike. He's at his best in space. Including coverage. Wags can rumble in the trash and is also at home in space. Bowman is very much the same player, who is the 9ers Mike backer when healthy. Willis is more the WLB type who's not as adept at the POA and is their WILB because of that fact and frees up Willis to run. Not entirely different from how Smith was key for us down the stretch last year playing WLB. It frees him up to run.

It's really interesting to me how things are told in the media and how things really are if you watch closely. I also thought it very interesting that the Panthers drafted two very big, very good DTs in the draft following Keuchly's rookie season. I would have too. Frees up Kuechly to run more.

So I mean, when people start talking about who's better I might ask what you're looking for. Even then I'd take Wags and Bowman over the rest because they're scheme diverse. You don't have to protect them or do anything special with or for them and they'll always be good.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I think kuechly is better....

On a side note, why does the .net always feel so disrespected and have to say X player is better than X player?

He may be. It's the "Who's Bobby Wagner? He's not in the discussion." type of reaction from many that irks me.