A thought concerning our direction.

[chris98251]

Here's my thought, if Bevell was fired after the SB loss there would have been a lot less contention on the team, Pete showing accountability and the mantra he speaks of, especially based on our performance on offense through out the seasons, Cable as well, for a coach that was sold as a O LINE guru to swing and miss on so many prospects as well as no sense of continuity with our line that come's off as a failure of huge proportions.

The defense was and has been pissed at the offensive coaches since the play, the lack of offense generated since has maintained that mentality. The problem really was that Pete let it fester for a few seasons to where it created a bigger issue and was spilling over to new players as well. Yes the Stars could still play, but the team was stagnant in it's ability to move forward with the Veterans, that infection was being spread to the new players brought in.

We are seeing a reset, the problems on offense at it's core are now gone, Richard who was probably to close to Sherman and the rest of the defense is also gone, there is probably more to that story, what we brought in are three guys that are known to get fiery at times in their own unique way. Schotty has a rep of being a workaholic and having high expectations of his QB, will get in his ear if needed, we never seen that with Bevell and Pete had to do it in a game last year. Cable was fiery but I think almost all the time, Solari is more reserved, but when he gets there he demands your attention. Richard I think was just to close to the guys, almost like one of your crew being promoted to Manager and then asked to discipline the guys he worked and sweated with, hard to do for many people since these guys were also his friends I would bet. Enter Norton who knows how to tough love guys.

We are resetting the culture with guys Pete knows but have a different delivery system, shaking up the puzzle and having new players be in the mix so that the message is fresh again.

Now if we could have brought Scot in in the Player Personnel department I would have higher hopes, he has built three teams S.F., Seattle and his largely responsible for the Skins being on the cusp.

If we could find a way to give him the VP of Player acquisition title of something and bring him back I would be ecstatic, let John negotiate, let Scot do what he does best, find players.

 

[TwistedHusky]

To be fair, I think Scott was best when combined with JS and Pete.

That might have been the greatest scout/assessment/development team I've ever seen.

That draft hit rate was probably double the league standard. Even crazier considering those drafts were 'down' drafts for the rest of the league.

But Scott did it in SF, which shows he can do it himself.

JS and Pete, thus far, have not shown they can do much beyond average without him. Hell, even the Lockett/Clark pickups could be attributed to him since it was right before he left and we really haven't brought in much since save last year and most of that is just hopeful projection instead of actual results. Other than Griffin nobody even looks like they should even be a starter, really. Though they have time to develop still.

But you are right Chris, not moving fast after that SB loss destroyed the soul of this team and turned a lot of our better players against the coaching staff.

 

[jammerhawk]

Good post Chris, agree with all except for Scott who needs to prove he can work in a team enviroment and stay sober. I think he's undoubtedly a special talent with a demon inside that he struggles with and control for him looks as if it is a constant issue. If he had control I'd certainly 100% agree b/c the FO was best when he was here. I can't imagine him leaving here was easy for PN'J.

I could be talking out of my rear-end here about Scott but there seems to be a pattern of objective evidence supporing my thinking

 

[chris98251]

Good post Chris, agree with all except for Scott who needs to prove he can work in a team enviroment and stay sober. I think he's undoubtedly a special talent with a demon inside that he struggles with and control for him looks as if it is a constant issue. If he had control I'd certainly 100% agree b/c the FO was best when he was here. I can't imagine him leaving here was easy for PN'J.

I could be talking out of my rear-end here about Scott but there seems to be a pattern of objective evidence supporing my thinking

Why I said do what he does best, I wouldn't care if he was swimming in a Martini Glass all day, he could work from home or whatever, draft day and certain days he's at the complex, you have video conferencing if you need to talk to him etc. It's his skill set you want.

Not much different then a controversial player like Lynch on the Roster, the reward is worth the time and effort needed to support him.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Good post Chris, agree with all except for Scott who needs to prove he can work in a team enviroment and stay sober. I think he's undoubtedly a special talent with a demon inside that he struggles with and control for him looks as if it is a constant issue. If he had control I'd certainly 100% agree b/c the FO was best when he was here. I can't imagine him leaving here was easy for PN'J.

I could be talking out of my rear-end here about Scott but there seems to be a pattern of objective evidence supporing my thinking

Why I said do what he does best, I wouldn't care if he was swimming in a Martini Glass all day, he could work from home or whatever, draft day and certain days he's at the complex, you have video conferencing if you need to talk to him etc. It's his skill set you want.

Not much different then a controversial player like Lynch on the Roster, the reward is worth the time and effort needed to support him.

If I recall, I read a post on here where he is doing some consulting for some teams. Maybe he is doing that already for the Seahawks. Video Conferencing??? naw man...go for the audio only..much easier.

 

[AROS]

I think it's pretty comparable to those bands who had success in their early years peaking with a multi-platinum album only to fizzle out and never able to find the same level of success again. The band breaks up.

Boys, the band is breaking up. As sad as it is to say that, their finest hour (the LOB Era) is over.

In a year or two Pete will be gone as well. All we will have left is Russell and Wagner, Clark and some other quality players. The rest of the team will have no relation to the championship-caliber team we have grown spoiled with from 2012-2016.

 

[Seymour]

The band isn't breaking up....they are just swapping instruments for a new and exciting gig.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Carroll likely has 2-3 years left here. Maybe.

I am not sure how we are going to revamp/reload the team without any draft picks and with a spotty record of pretty average returns when we do manage to draft but maybe that will change.

This is what Pete and John are trying to do, restock picks and open up cap space.

We tried the "hang onto players and make another run" approach. Didn't work, now the direction is clear, turn over staff, roster and make another run.

Will it work? Idk, if you held a gun to my head at this point in time with Pete and Johns mistakes in the draft, trades and free agency the past 3-4 years? I'd say unfortunately, no.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I will miss Sherm and Bennett IF both are gone. I will not miss the drama though.

 

[jammerhawk]

The band isn't breaking up....they are just swapping instruments for a new and exciting gig.

:2thumbs: :irishdrinkers:

Goodf post!

 

[jammerhawk]

Change is good, there are positives and negatives to every situation. Things will be different going forward and nobody can say for sure if they will be worse or better, it was clear that changes needed to happen, they should and likely will be comprehensive changes.

 

[chris98251]

Well Van Halen, Black Sabbath, Journey, Guns and Roses, INXS, better get their act together soon.

I think bands are a bit different, lead singers think they are bigger then the band and go solo, some work most don't and the band sounds and creative style changes and they fade. They also get older and have less inspiration as far as life experience, Drugs and Love are two of the biggies that people either don't do like they did younger and or they settle down and don't go thru the emotional roller coaster of break ups and new relationships. Just my opinion.

This whole roster and Staff shake up is about putting everyone out of their comfort zone again and having them look over their shoulder and push themselves again.

The problem we all have is we don't know how good the guys that have been sitting in the wings really are yet that will soar or flop once in a game. They have had red shirts all over, I just hope they are not the Star Trek variety.

 

[TwistedHusky]

There is a lot of optimism about our FO being able to somehow offset all these losses with new at least effective replacements.

In my opinion, the optimism is unfounded considering we haven't been able to replace Irvin after losing him and we struggled for a long to to even find a serviceable replacement to fill the other side from Sherman.

Nevermind the struggle to figure out how we replace Lynch once he left.

But here is to hoping you are right. So far, we haven't found much luck replacing even our 2nd tier stars. Much less guys like Lynch, a new round of guys on the Lynch tier like Bennett and Sherman? Sounds like a tall order.

I guess all we can do is wait and hope that things don't end up like losing the earlier guys did.

 

[jammerhawk]

Isn't Clark the replacement for Irvin? Even though Irvin actually played as a SOLB.

The trades for Harvin and Graham have both hurt the team in terms of young talent acquisition and the cap, which has benn a reason why JS trades back in the draft almost every season. I suspect they are going to be less likely to do these type deals going forward until the cap mess is cleared up.

I guess I don't share your pessimism in the team finding talent.

 

[TwistedHusky]

Well Clark isn't a Sam and I don't think he is even a Leo.

And it isn't so much pessimism (which I have been accused of but only because I saw these storm clouds brewing years ago) as observation. We have not found much talent in the draft in the past 3-4 years. Certainly not talent that produced on the field.

But just to be clear, this is because of all the draft picks we traded away on mistakes that FO made?

But the front office can turn it around because the only reason we haven't done well is all the mistakes in free agency we made before that? Once the front office quits making THOSE mistakes, we can hope that they can start putting together a more impressive success rate?

Even though this Front Office continues to make mistakes in Free Agency and hasn't really demonstrated much success in the draft at all since 2012-2013?

We have to trust this FO to suddenly change essentially most of its track record, but then things will get better.

That sounds daunting, but hopefully you are right.

 

[Seymour]

Well Clark isn't a Sam and I don't think he is even a Leo.

And it isn't so much pessimism (which I have been accused of but only because I saw these storm clouds brewing years ago) as observation. We have not found much talent in the draft in the past 3-4 years. Certainly not talent that produced on the field.

But just to be clear, this is because of all the draft picks we traded away on mistakes that FO made?

But the front office can turn it around because the only reason we haven't done well is all the mistakes in free agency we made before that? Once the front office quits making THOSE mistakes, we can hope that they can start putting together a more impressive success rate?

Even though this Front Office continues to make mistakes in Free Agency and hasn't really demonstrated much success in the draft at all since 2012-2013?

We have to trust this FO to suddenly change essentially most of its track record, but then things will get better.

That sounds daunting, but hopefully you are right.

I don't necessarily "trust them to". I look at this as I have 2 choices in observing the changes.

1) Sit back and second guess every bad move and assume that will continue and be depressed.

2) Sit back and watch a new identity emerge, and try to enjoy the process as we shop for new pieces.

If that fails or doesn't go well....then it is bitch time IMO.

 

[TwistedHusky]

You are right, of course, Seymour.

At this point, if I had to evaluate the best move forward?

It would be to suck. Just be terrible for 2 years with this staff. But use the draft picks to load up on solid players in the secondary and LBs. Those are 2 things this team seems to do a decent job in evaluating talent.

Then the next staff can come in and hopefully bring in different evaluation skills to fill the other holes. But given that great corners and safeties are a requisite in building a winning team, and they come at a premium - at least the cupboard will be full of those for the next crew.

For now, I am upset about the end of an era and a lot of squandered opportunities this staff was responsible for. So just catharsis I suppose to point out why there is not much reason to optimistic. But you are right, peeing in people's Wheaties (do they still even eat those anymore?) probably doesn't help and might just make it worse.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Interesting.....we can do the Fisher experiment. Or we can hope that the REvamp works...if revamp means they are going for blood like a revampire...get them hungry again. I dont know the actual answer and so spitballing is next in line. I just hope like Chris said, we dont have too many Star Trek version of red shirts.

 

[DHawk]

Well Clark isn't a Sam and I don't think he is even a Leo.

And it isn't so much pessimism (which I have been accused of but only because I saw these storm clouds brewing years ago) as observation. We have not found much talent in the draft in the past 3-4 years. Certainly not talent that produced on the field.

But just to be clear, this is because of all the draft picks we traded away on mistakes that FO made?

But the front office can turn it around because the only reason we haven't done well is all the mistakes in free agency we made before that? Once the front office quits making THOSE mistakes, we can hope that they can start putting together a more impressive success rate?

Even though this Front Office continues to make mistakes in Free Agency and hasn't really demonstrated much success in the draft at all since 2012-2013?

We have to trust this FO to suddenly change essentially most of its track record, but then things will get better.

That sounds daunting, but hopefully you are right.

I don't necessarily "trust them to". I look at this as I have 2 choices in observing the changes.

1) Sit back and second guess every bad move and assume that will continue and be depressed.

2) Sit back and watch a new identity emerge, and try to enjoy the process as we shop for new pieces.

If that fails or doesn't go well....then it is bitch time IMO.

I agree!

While I wish we could have won more Championships with these guys, I'm sort of excited to see what happens next. You guys remember that LenDale White moment in 2010? When Pete and JS saw he wasn't buying in(drug issue I think?) and dropped his ass because of it? I want to see that again! Along with some new perspective from new coaches, who knows what will happen!

 

[jammerhawk]

Well Clark isn't a Sam and I don't think he is even a Leo.

And it isn't so much pessimism (which I have been accused of but only because I saw these storm clouds brewing years ago) as observation. We have not found much talent in the draft in the past 3-4 years. Certainly not talent that produced on the field.

But just to be clear, this is because of all the draft picks we traded away on mistakes that FO made?

But the front office can turn it around because the only reason we haven't done well is all the mistakes in free agency we made before that? Once the front office quits making THOSE mistakes, we can hope that they can start putting together a more impressive success rate?

Even though this Front Office continues to make mistakes in Free Agency and hasn't really demonstrated much success in the draft at all since 2012-2013?

We have to trust this FO to suddenly change essentially most of its track record, but then things will get better.

That sounds daunting, but hopefully you are right.

Thanks for your reply.

I don't know what the team thinks Clark is but I think he's thought to be a Leo and not a SOLB. He was a solid draft pick and will be a Pro Bowl level player.

But just to be clear, this is because of all the draft picks we traded away on mistakes that FO made?

In reply to your quoted remark, of course the team has lost the benefit from the drafting of first round draft picks and more with the draft trades for Harvin ( 1st, 7th and next season's 3rd rd picks given up) and Graham both in salary/cap costs and opportunity costs in terms of players not drafted. Having a few young studs from the Harvin picks and Graham 1st round pick traded away along with Unger would seriously change the look of the talent drafted. The loss of 2- 1sts, a 3rd, a 7th and very solid OC has sure not helped the team's acquisition profile as the team is soon to be without both Harvin Graham and all the draft capital traded away. Is the losss of the draft pick the sole reason, ans: nope, but it's a big part of it.

Sadly we had Cable who convinced the FO he was a magic maker with OLine creation and maintenance, he wasn't as we know and stole a huge amount of draft capital that a capable OLine coach would/should have been able to turn into something. For us watching we'd see the players drafted turn into garbage be traded, or FA out and then be OK players elsewhere. Cable was an anchor holding the team from improving and slowly making things worse.

The team hasn't had a genuine early first round quality talent since Thomas because of draft position because of success, ill advised trades and bad luck with injuries and poor Oline drafts. Things will change once the cap is forced back into shape. Cable is thankfully gone, we have an OC that is more likely to be able to use unusually talented but hard to positionally firt players. I think there are some high potential yet unproven players on the team and some that may be able to be salvaged and think the depth on the roster while not exceptional is not full of huge holes. the team is good at finding castoffs who have talent and can be salavaged and have made a few good trades though I think both Harvin and Graham were big mistakes.

I know your thinking on Scott Mc but do think the FO hasn't done a bad job with their 'draft more bodies, but later approach'. They simply have missed on a few early picks but drafting is a lot harder than anyone admits losing those picks and any long term benefit really has hurt their performance score.