49ers bringing in Seneca Wallace for tryout...

[loafoftatupu]

The 49ers do know that the Seneca Wallace WR conversion project never really panned out, right?

As much pub as the #2 WR situation gets, the #2 QB situation is looking really grim. In 2 games I don't think Colt has posted a QB rating over 30. Ouch.

I still think that if put to the test with that great starting OLine that Tolzien would fair OK. If they REALLY had to, Harbs could play small ball like he did with Smith. Tolzien and McCoy could both function that way. I think Smith was a little more mobile though than guys give him credit for.

Handoff to Gore
Handoff to Gore
Dump it to VD or James
Kick FG

Stop opposing offense.

Rinse and repeat circa 2011.

Kaep is a hard ass, he aint going down anyways. He isn't as elusive in the pocket as RW, but he is a greased chicken with NOS in the open and pretty much avoids hits the way RW does. This number 2 QB stuff isn't going to be a factor for either team. Those guys are like ghosts out there.

 

[HawkWow]

The 49ers do know that the Seneca Wallace WR conversion project never really panned out, right?

With Holmy finally out of the picture, the beast is now ready to be unleashed! Or released...whatever.

I get the feeling Harbaugh is just a card or 2 from the whole thing collapsing. Remember that catatonic stare he had after the whuppin in Seattle? There's more where that came from.

 

[Marvin49]

^^^lol ya buddy. Off a superbowl trip and also beating Atlanta in Atlanta something the Hawks could not do that. 2 time division champs and a pretty darn good roster. People bash our WR corps but they forget we made it to the NFC Champ game with a worst wideout group than we have now. Crabtree had done nothing in 2011 and outside of him we had nothing.

In 2011 the Niners didn't give up a shitload of passing yards either. The 2012 Niners gave up that ass like a hooker on Navy night in the Phillipines. I dunno, maybe they are better now, we will see, especially with Cowboy back.

Nor did they pass the ball with any real frequency unless they had to. The Kaepernick Niners are not in the same realm of ball control as the Smith Niners were. WR was a little used position until CK took over. Both the Hawks and Niners embarrassed Atlanta with sizeable comebacks, the difference being Atlanta only needed a FG to beat Seattle.

Sure would have liked to seen that 3rd game in SF last year for the NFCC. Now THAT would have been an epic battle. That's OK, the Hawks had a good run with a bunch of kids that are returning so that maybe we get the chance to see that game played in Seattle this year.

If Seneca Wallace becomes a Niner? Weird... He was a great backup for the Hawks. The guy has won in SF before

Actually, through the first 13 weeks of the season last year the 49ers were the best passing D in the NFL. Then they lost their pass rush when Aldon and Justin were hurt and it fell apart at the end.

Still....even after it fell apart late, they averaged 200.2 yards per game on D...good for 4th in the NFL.

In 2011 they allowed 230.9 yards per game...16th in the NFL.

 

[uncle fester]

The 2012 Niners gave up that ass like a hooker on Navy night in the Phillipines.

Gold star awarded for most creative use of the English language...

 

[loafoftatupu]

Still....even after it fell apart late, they averaged 200.2 yards per game on D...good for 4th in the NFL.

In 2011 they allowed 230.9 yards per game...16th in the NFL.

Oh that's right, never mind that. They were fricking GREAT. The earlier part of the season says so.

The 2011 team was tougher on defense. Much harder to score on.

 

[Marvin49]

Still....even after it fell apart late, they averaged 200.2 yards per game on D...good for 4th in the NFL.

In 2011 they allowed 230.9 yards per game...16th in the NFL.

Oh that's right, never mind that. They were fricking GREAT. The earlier part of the season says so.

The 2011 team was tougher on defense. Much harder to score on.

You laugh, but last years Pass D was much better than 2011 (until the injuries late). The Pass D in 2011 was their "weakness" if they had one. In 2012 they didn't allow a passing TD of over 50 yards all year...until Atlanta...and then again in the SB.

It was the RUN D that was just ridiculous in 2011.

As for scoring D....

2011: 14.3 - 2nd in the NFL
2012: 17.1 - 2nd in the NFL

As I said before...the Pass D (actually...the Run D too) fell apart late due to injury, so that average in 2012 includes 34 Points to the Pats (Brady had 443 yards..mostly in second half) and 42 points to the Seahawks (Wilson with FOUR TDs) in back to back games. Through 13 games, they were averaging 13.92 points per game. In those last 3 games and the playoffs they allowed 29.66 points per game. Put another way, they almost allowed more points in those 6 games than they had in the previous 13.

Previous to those 2 games late in the year, the most points any team had scored against them was 26 (Giants).

So...I say again....the 49ers Defense was JUST FINE till Justin and Aldon got hurt (compounded by Parys Haralson being hurt in preseason). They then went on a nose-dive all the way through the Super Bowl. This is why I have been far more concerned with drafting and grooming a young replacement for Justin Smith (hopefully Tank Carradine can be that guy) than I have been about the loss of Dashon Goldson.

 

[loafoftatupu]

Still....even after it fell apart late, they averaged 200.2 yards per game on D...good for 4th in the NFL.

In 2011 they allowed 230.9 yards per game...16th in the NFL.

Oh that's right, never mind that. They were fricking GREAT. The earlier part of the season says so.

The 2011 team was tougher on defense. Much harder to score on.

You laugh, but last years Pass D was much better than 2011 (until the injuries late). The Pass D in 2011 was their "weakness" if they had one. In 2012 they didn't allow a passing TD of over 50 yards all year...until Atlanta...and then again in the SB.

It was the RUN D that was just ridiculous in 2011.

As for scoring D....

2011: 14.3 - 2nd in the NFL
2012: 17.1 - 2nd in the NFL

As I said before...the Pass D (actually...the Run D too) fell apart late due to injury, so that average in 2012 includes 34 Points to the Pats (Brady had 443 yards..mostly in second half) and 42 points to the Seahawks (Wilson with FOUR TDs) in back to back games. Through 13 games, they were averaging 13.92 points per game. In those last 3 games and the playoffs they allowed 29.66 points per game. Put another way, they almost allowed more points in those 6 games than they had in the previous 13.

Previous to those 2 games late in the year, the most points any team had scored against them was 26 (Giants).

So...I say again....the 49ers Defense was JUST FINE till Justin and Aldon got hurt (compounded by Parys Haralson being hurt in preseason). They then went on a nose-dive all the way through the Super Bowl. This is why I have been far more concerned with drafting and grooming a young replacement for Justin Smith (hopefully Tank Carradine can be that guy) than I have been about the loss of Dashon Goldson.

Oh I see how it is.. all those low scoring games, won with FG's, turnovers and field position were because the OFFENSE was good. You come out and tell me 200 yards a game total as an average for the season in 2012, when really the Niners spent their last 5 games being LIT THE HELL UP. The 2011 Niners never got lit up on defense outside of one period of football in the Divisional playoff game. So throw your cherry pick yardage stats around as some sort of evidence, but the Niner fricking SUCKED on defense when the season ended last year. They even gave up over 200 yards to BRIAN FRICKING HOYER.

They have the best LBing group in the NFL, hands down, but they still got owned in their last games. Fortunately for SF, GB doesn't have anything resembling a defense or a running game.

 

[Marvin49]

Oh that's right, never mind that. They were fricking GREAT. The earlier part of the season says so.

The 2011 team was tougher on defense. Much harder to score on.

You laugh, but last years Pass D was much better than 2011 (until the injuries late). The Pass D in 2011 was their "weakness" if they had one. In 2012 they didn't allow a passing TD of over 50 yards all year...until Atlanta...and then again in the SB.

It was the RUN D that was just ridiculous in 2011.

As for scoring D....

2011: 14.3 - 2nd in the NFL
2012: 17.1 - 2nd in the NFL

As I said before...the Pass D (actually...the Run D too) fell apart late due to injury, so that average in 2012 includes 34 Points to the Pats (Brady had 443 yards..mostly in second half) and 42 points to the Seahawks (Wilson with FOUR TDs) in back to back games. Through 13 games, they were averaging 13.92 points per game. In those last 3 games and the playoffs they allowed 29.66 points per game. Put another way, they almost allowed more points in those 6 games than they had in the previous 13.

Previous to those 2 games late in the year, the most points any team had scored against them was 26 (Giants).

So...I say again....the 49ers Defense was JUST FINE till Justin and Aldon got hurt (compounded by Parys Haralson being hurt in preseason). They then went on a nose-dive all the way through the Super Bowl. This is why I have been far more concerned with drafting and grooming a young replacement for Justin Smith (hopefully Tank Carradine can be that guy) than I have been about the loss of Dashon Goldson.

Oh I see how it is.. all those low scoring games, won with FG's, turnovers and field position were because the OFFENSE was good. You come out and tell me 200 yards a game total as an average for the season in 2012, when really the Niners spent their last 5 games being LIT THE HELL UP. The 2011 Niners never got lit up on defense outside of one period of football in the Divisional playoff game. So throw your cherry pick yardage stats around as some sort of evidence, but the Niner fricking SUCKED on defense when the season ended last year. They even gave up over 200 yards to BRIAN FRICKING HOYER.

They have the best LBing group in the NFL, hands down, but they still got owned in their last games. Fortunately for SF, GB doesn't have anything resembling a defense or a running game.

uh...not sure what point you are making here other than the one I was making originally. Niners were great on D last year and could even have been considered BETTER than 2011...until injuries to Justin and Aldon late in the year.

It's not rocket science.

When did I say those early games were won because the offense was good? I said the D was good. Said NOTHING about offense.

You are correct...they only got lit up like that once in 2011....and guess who WASN'T HURT IN THOSE GAMES IN 2011. Cherry picking? I picked stats that illustrated my entire point...the D was FINE last year until it fell apart late due to injury. Why is that complicated? Hell, you are accusing my of cherry picking and then using those stats to make the SAME POINT I'M MAKING. LOL.

No team in the NFL has allowed fewer points than the 49ers in the last two years. Maybe I'm confused. I don't understand what point it is exactly that you are trying to make. All I'm saying is that the D was just as good last year as it was the year before (better against pass, not quite as good against run) prior to the injuries. Before those final 3 games they were allowing just under 14 points per game after averaging 14.3 in 2011.

How is this confusing?

 

[13thMan]

It's not confusing as much as it is disconcerting...

And in other news.... Seneca Wallace.....

 

[loafoftatupu]

Its not confusing at all, I just think that the 2011 Niners defense played at a more sustained level than the 2012 Niners. We all know perfectly well why the Niners gave up yards and points at the end of the year. The difference I see is that the 2011 team played at a similar level for the whole year.

My point was that a decent backup in SF could still win because they showed they could play small ball in 2011. I genuinely think that the SF defense was more vulnerable at the end of the season because of other reasons on top of the loss of JSmith and injury to Aldon. That the 2011 defense was rested well and rarely put in adverse situations because they played balk control football.

With Kaep, it all changed and it paid off. I was just thinking that if they had to go to the backup that they could go right back to playing 2011 ball. No, it wouldn't be explosive like the CK Niners, but their defense could benefit from it and they could keep the scores down. They could still win that way. No, not as much, but enough to hold the fort down a little.

 

[Marvin49]

Its not confusing at all, I just think that the 2011 Niners defense played at a more sustained level than the 2012 Niners. We all know perfectly well why the Niners gave up yards and points at the end of the year. The difference I see is that the 2011 team played at a similar level for the whole year.

My point was that a decent backup in SF could still win because they showed they could play small ball in 2011. I genuinely think that the SF defense was more vulnerable at the end of the season because of other reasons on top of the loss of JSmith and injury to Aldon. That the 2011 defense was rested well and rarely put in adverse situations because they played balk control football.

With Kaep, it all changed and it paid off. I was just thinking that if they had to go to the backup that they could go right back to playing 2011 ball. No, it wouldn't be explosive like the CK Niners, but their defense could benefit from it and they could keep the scores down. They could still win that way. No, not as much, but enough to hold the fort down a little.

Well if THAT was your point then I would mostly agree with you. Kaep was huge last year because he was able to overcome some of those defensive shortcomings late in the year. All of the sudden, they HAD to put up 30 or 40 points or they were done. 41 vs NE, 45 vs GB, 28 vs Falcons and they needed at least 38 to win the big one (only scored 31).

One of the most overlooked aspects of the 2011 team tho was special teams. They led the NFL both in best starting position and best opposing team starting position...IE they routinely had a short field while giving the other team a long one. Last offseason they let a number of those guys go. This year they have been trying to get back to that and signed and drafted a number of really good special teamers (Skuta, Osgood, Ventrone, Moody, Dawson).

 

[Giedi]

Its not confusing at all, I just think that the 2011 Niners defense played at a more sustained level than the 2012 Niners. We all know perfectly well why the Niners gave up yards and points at the end of the year. The difference I see is that the 2011 team played at a similar level for the whole year.

My point was that a decent backup in SF could still win because they showed they could play small ball in 2011. I genuinely think that the SF defense was more vulnerable at the end of the season because of other reasons on top of the loss of JSmith and injury to Aldon. That the 2011 defense was rested well and rarely put in adverse situations because they played balk control football.

With Kaep, it all changed and it paid off. I was just thinking that if they had to go to the backup that they could go right back to playing 2011 ball. No, it wouldn't be explosive like the CK Niners, but their defense could benefit from it and they could keep the scores down. They could still win that way. No, not as much, but enough to hold the fort down a little.

Well considering that AJ Jenkins was the fastest 49er WR - but he's been traded, and Baldwin isn't fast, in the sense of WR fast, just lumbering fast like a linebacker - you might get your dink and dunk 49er offense yet. The rest of the 49er receivers are pedestrian in the speed department. OK for slot receivers, but I think they are on the slower side when it comes to X receiver speed.

 

[Marvin49]

Its not confusing at all, I just think that the 2011 Niners defense played at a more sustained level than the 2012 Niners. We all know perfectly well why the Niners gave up yards and points at the end of the year. The difference I see is that the 2011 team played at a similar level for the whole year.

My point was that a decent backup in SF could still win because they showed they could play small ball in 2011. I genuinely think that the SF defense was more vulnerable at the end of the season because of other reasons on top of the loss of JSmith and injury to Aldon. That the 2011 defense was rested well and rarely put in adverse situations because they played balk control football.

With Kaep, it all changed and it paid off. I was just thinking that if they had to go to the backup that they could go right back to playing 2011 ball. No, it wouldn't be explosive like the CK Niners, but their defense could benefit from it and they could keep the scores down. They could still win that way. No, not as much, but enough to hold the fort down a little.

Well considering that AJ Jenkins was the fastest 49er WR - but he's been traded, and Baldwin isn't fast, in the sense of WR fast, just lumbering fast like a linebacker - you might get your dink and dunk 49er offense yet. The rest of the 49er receivers are pedestrian in the speed department. OK for slot receivers, but I think they are on the slower side when it comes to X receiver speed.

I highly doubt it.

Crab isn't a burner either yet he had no problem getting 15 to 20 yards on a regular basis.

Speed is great to stretch the field, but a WR with speed isn't the only way to create space. A great Running game and heavy play action also creates space. Kaep had the highest average per attempt in the NFL last year but it wasn't on 40+ yard passes. It was on a steady diet of 15-25 yard passes behind linebackers who cheat up to stop the run.

It doesn't require blazing speed to run a 15 yard pattern behind a LB.

Moreover, teams cheat up a safety to stop the run as well meaning you are looking at a single safety over the top. The reason the 49ers get player so wide open alot isn't because they have burners. It's because the have a very good run game that has to be respected first. This is why I think Boldin will be huge this year. He can find open spaces in zone and Kaep is willing to throw accurately into tight spaces (because Boldin won't be open by 5 yards vs man coverage). Would it be nice to have a speed reciever to create some space? Sure it would...but it's not like the Niners had one last year and they did just fine.

That last point is the one that I think needs to be stressed most. Everyone talks about the position in shambles and "who's going to be the #2 guy". Well who was the #2 guy LAST year. Kyle Williams. Mario Manningham. Randy Moss. Moss only really played when both Manningham and Williams were lost for the season. Williams will likely see most of those snaps early, We'll see if Patton can contribute, Manningham wil probably be back around week 7 and Crab late in the year. Not only that, but the 49ers run ALOT of 2 TE sets, so very often it doesn't even matter who the #2 WR is. The question now is can Boldin step in for Crabtree. I think he can. He won't be the exact same guy, but he is one hell of a replacement till Crab can get back.

BTW, If teams start dropping those LBs and keeping the other safety deep...well that works too because then you get a more even fight in the box and the run game is that much more effective.