2 Things About this match up that should make you nervous...

[Uncle Si]

Point one is a solid one. however, i think most Seahawk fans take solace in remembering what the D was able to do against the Broncos last year. while the Seahawks cant control who they play, its rarely mattered.

Point two is my concern. the Seahawks need pressure from the front 4, or they will be letting New England get down the field with short to intermediate passes that are quicker than what was seen from Manning last year.

let me offer my take on two things Pats fans should be worried about:

The running game is better than you think, because the passing game is better than you think (and vice versa) lots of people hanging their hats on the Pats secondary stopping the Hawks WRs and teeing off on the run game. much, much better Defenses have tried that and not been successful. Green Bay did it for 3 quarters and still lost

The secondary is much better than you think it is. underneath stuff works, and will turn into first downs and even extend drives to field goals. but it takes a toll on the other teams and offense. and by 4th quarter teams just stop moving the ball.

its going to be a good game. really excited for it.

 

[SHOCKER315]

Rodgers at 60% is probably better then the last two QB's you faced. Not sure what you are trying to argue here?

I will condense my argument to just two sentences. Then you can read my explanation for why I feel that way above...

Reason 1: Seahawks have been playing sub-par quarterbacks since Week 6. They have not yet faced a Quarterback playing at an "ELITE" level.

Reason 2: Seahawks don't have a 4 man pass rush that can consistently get after Brady.

I was hoping for some more educated responses but alas I may not get a return volley.

The Seahawks can only play the QB's put in front of them. I do not argue that many OB's on your list since week 6 are "sub-par". However, the hawks did in fact do what you would expect a top defense to do against these QB's... that is... shut them down almost completely. Your argument about these QB's being sub-par would be more relevant if several of these QB's lit up the Hawks defense, but none did.

Furthermore, its not as if the Hawks D has never faced top QB's in the last 2 years. They have, and held nearly all of them well below their season averages.

BTW, a hobbled Rodgers is about the equivalent in mobility as a healthy Brady.

I also have some doubts about our 4 man pass rush in recent weeks due to the Hawks D line injuries. However, is not all about sacks, its about hurries and getting the QB to move off his spot. In Superbowl 48, the Hawks did not sack Peyton Manning, they simply hurried him, and the Hawks dominated.

I would argue that that Hawks didn't get the pressure they would have liked last week, but they did get Rodgers moving and kept him uncomfortable for most of the game, as evidenced by his 55 passer rating 178 yds, and 2 picks.

 

[dradee]

So let me get this straight...

1. Luck
2. Flacco
3. Orton
4. G. Smith
5. Tannehill
6. Rivers (injured)
7. Rodgers (injured)
8. Stafford

And so forth are all "elite"?

Again for a second time WE DON'T BLITZ A LOT because we get enough pressure with 4 guys on a regular basis.

Your forgeting the other all time great QBs they played this year, Cutler, Carr, Smith and future hall of famer Cassel

 

[EastCoastHawksFan]

to your first point . To say Rodgers was 60% is blasphemy . Also I agree the Packers had a chance to win at the end but Rodgers didn't put them it that position. Our offense or lack thereof was the reason.

your 2nd point . I agree completely . Our front four had a pretty terrible game against GB. Our defense as a whole played tremendous. Only 6 points allowed off turnovers , two goal line stops. I am completely confident that your offense hasn't seen a defense as physical as ours and will prove to be the difference .

 

[NJSeahawk]

The OP is Nervous, bro!

 

[Alexander]

Rodgers at 60% is probably better then the last two QB's you faced. Not sure what you are trying to argue here?

I will condense my argument to just two sentences. Then you can read my explanation for why I feel that way above...

Reason 1: Seahawks have been playing sub-par quarterbacks since Week 6. They have not since faced a Quarterback playing at an "ELITE" level.

Reason 2: Seahawks don't have a 4 man pass rush that can consistently get after Brady.

I was hoping for some more educated responses but alas I may not get a return volley.

See my above post for point #1. I think point #2 is more reasonable, and you'll find that many of the posters here would agree with it. However, I'm not sure it's so simple. The Hawks 4-man pass rush is definitely not as good as it was last year, and while it picked up considerably at the end of the year, the defense has missed Jordan HIll the last two weeks. (Kudos to you for being informed enough to point that at, as I think most non-Hawks fans wouldn't know who he was.) Even so, Bennett and Avril provide consistent pressure off the edge, and if necessary, they can line Bennett on the inside, where he's been very effective and where the Pats O-line is weakest. They can then replace Bennett on the other side with Irvin, who's good enough to force Brady to step up. Is the pass rush going to be on the level of, say, Baltimore, or the Giants in the last two Super Bowls? Probably not, but I think it will be good enough to get the job done, given the strength of the back 7.

 

[Gronkzilla]

You guys are making some great points! I appreciate reading some thoughts of which I haven't considered. I will say that Brady is not mobile, but you would be surprised as to how well he navigates the pocket. 38 year old Brady is more mobile in the pocket than 37 year old Brady which often is never the case. It is something that Patriots fans will tell you he "re-added" to his game at 38 years old.

As far as Rodgers goes, I believe that a non-mobile Rodgers is comparable to Tom Brady yet I think the lack of mobility has further implications then just not being able to move. Psychologically, his game is altered, what his gut tells him to do... he can no longer do. Therefore he is fighting with his instincts which probably played a larger role than most would think.

You are correct too, the Seahawks did what they were expected to do against sub-par quarterbacks... CRUSH THEM! haha. But my point is more in the fact that Brady will force this defense to be perfect to win. The margin for error is greatly shrunk when facing an elite QB.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

The margin for error is greatly shrunk when facing an elite QB.

That should be of some concern for Patriots fans, no? Especially one who has a top-tier historical-level defense to bail him out should he have an incredibly uncharacteristic game for a quarter or to.

 

[ChiefHawk]

Not really sure the OP realizes what the result has been over our last three years of playing Super Bowl winning QBs - you know - those 'Elite' guys.

10-0

Also not really clear to him that out secondary and LBs are essentially the same as last year.

 

[StorytellerMatt]

"You don't seem to want to accept the fact you're dealing with an expert in guerrilla warfare, with a man who's the best, with guns, with knives, with his bare hands. A man who's been trained to ignore pain, ignore weather, to live off the land, to eat things that would make a billy goat puke. In Superb Owls XXXVI, XXXVIII, and XXXIX, his job was to dispose of enemy personnel. To kill! Period! Win by attrition. Well Tom Brady was the best." - Colonel Trautman

"I met Bill Belichick fifteen years ago; I was told there was nothing left; no reason, no conscience, no understanding; and even the most rudimentary sense of life or death, of good or evil, right or wrong. I met this forty-six-year-old child, with this blank, pale, emotionless face, and the blackest eyes... the devil's eyes. I spent eight years trying to reach him, and then another seven trying to keep him locked up because I realized that what was living behind that man's eyes was purely and simply... evil." - Dr. Sam Loomis

"You still don't understand what you're dealing with, do you? Perfect organism. New England's structural perfection is matched only by its hostility. I admire its purity. A survivor... unclouded by conscience, remorse, or delusions of morality." - Ash the robot

 

[sutz]

You guys are making some great points! I appreciate reading some thoughts of which I haven't considered. I will say that Brady is not mobile, but you would be surprised as to how well he navigates the pocket. 38 year old Brady is more mobile in the pocket than 37 year old Brady which often is never the case. It is something that Patriots fans will tell you he "re-added" to his game at 38 years old.

As far as Rodgers goes, I believe that a non-mobile Rodgers is comparable to Tom Brady yet I think the lack of mobility has further implications then just not being able to move. Psychologically, his game is altered, what his gut tells him to do... he can no longer do. Therefore he is fighting with his instincts which probably played a larger role than most would think.

You are correct too, the Seahawks did what they were expected to do against sub-par quarterbacks... CRUSH THEM! haha. But my point is more in the fact that Brady will force this defense to be perfect to win. The margin for error is greatly shrunk when facing an elite QB.

Well, the margin for error is always smaller in the playoffs. The Seahawks are 5-0 in playoff situations the past two seasons.

Plus, regardless of our 'soft' late season schedule, the fact is that the 8 game winning streak they've been on was necessary. We came into it 3 games back in the division standings, and needing to scrape every win out just to make the playoffs, and there was no guarantee that we'd win the division at 12-4 if we did. Plus, the tiebreakers could have stacked up less in our favor TBS. The fact is that the Hawks have been playing virtual playoff games since mid-November.

Oh, and most of those teams with 'sub-par' QBs also had 'above par' defenses, too. Luckily, we didn't need to put up any 40-burgers during that stretch.

It's a team game, and frankly, the Pats are probably the most complete team the Seahawks have faced this year. But I still like our chances.

 

[SHOCKER315]

Hey Gronkzilla,

I readily admit I have not watched many NE games this year. So, how would the NE offense this year, compare to the Denver offense last year in terms of style, tempo, scheme, running vs passing success? Can you compare and contrast these two for us?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything.. I just would like some point of comparison in order to get an idea of what to expect from the NE offense.

 

[Alexander]

But my point is more in the fact that Brady will force this defense to be perfect to win. The margin for error is greatly shrunk when facing an elite QB.

I agree, but you can also flip that around. The margin of error for a QB is greatly shrunk when facing an elite defense

From casual observation, it seems like the Patriots offense excels at exploiting weaknesses in the opposing defense. They're good enough at everything that if there's a weakness, they can exploit it. So while they're not a dominant running team, they're good enough to exploit the Colts terrible run defense. And while their WRs aren't great, they're more than good enough to take advantage of Baltimore's patchwork secondary. The problem for them in this game, I think, is that the Hawks don't have those kinds of major exploitable weaknesses. There are weaknesses, to be sure, but they're difficult to exploit with consistency, and they're usually very good at making adjustments without overcompensating.

I do think Brady will make some plays in this game. Gronk will probably get his. I can't see this being a total beatdown like it was against the Broncos last year. But I do think their offense will be limited enough that the game will come down to Hawks offense versus Pats defense. Unlike last year's Super Bowl, the Hawks don't have a decisive advantage there. I am optimistic about our running game versus your rush defense, but if the offense twiddles its thumbs like last week, I think Brady will be able to do enough to win.

 

[Gronkzilla]

Hey Gronkzilla,

I readily admit I have not watched many NE games this year. So, how would the NE offense this year, compare to the Denver offense last year in terms of style, tempo, scheme, running vs passing success? Can you compare and contrast these two for us?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything.. I just would like some point of comparison in order to get an idea of what to expect from the NE offense.

The way that the New England will attack the Seattle defense is probably just as much a mystery to me as it is to you to be honest. This year specifically Bill has this team completely changing their identity week in and week out. Best on display with the previous two games of committing to a short quick pass game against the Ravens to neutralize their pass rush and then the next week flipping to a ground a pound style to run over the smaller DL of the Colts.

I have been trying to speculate on what the Pats will scheme up for this and what I am leaning towards is the Patriots will attempt to establish a running game with Blount and let it feed into play action passes. I imagine due to the match up nightmares that the hawks secondary causes, that they will try using two tight end sets with Gronk and possibly Tim Wright. From what I understand reading around your boards, the Hawks have not been extremely successful guarding tight ends. What I would imagine is a more 50/50 game plan with run/pas versus what the past two Patriots games were like.

Pats will try to get Gronk going up the seams to clear up space in the middle of the field. Then utilize the possession receivers and second tight end to make plays in the vacuum left behind.

I don't envision the Patriots will put themselves in many spread sets due to the lack of pass rush and I don't envision many screens to be used due to the intelligent DB play and lack of blitzing. So that is why I am lead to believe that we will test the absence of Mebane with Blount (Or possibly Gray if Belichick wants a more north/south disciplined runner) which will setup play action up the seams or to the corners. Maybe using Vereen for change of pace testing the linebackers.

Honestly, they could do anything and it wouldn't surprise me, they've taken such a matchup orientated stance this season so this is purely speculation.

 

[Gronkzilla]

But my point is more in the fact that Brady will force this defense to be perfect to win. The margin for error is greatly shrunk when facing an elite QB.

I agree, but you can also flip that around. The margin of error for a QB is greatly shrunk when facing an elite defense

Oh yea, I agree completely with you. Brady needs to be near perfect if we have a shot at winning. I give him 1 interception wiggle room (as long as it's not a pick 6). Typically he usually throws 1 pick because he is locked on Gronk. But he does perform well in big games and is rarely terrible like Manning was last Super Bowl. That's why the KC beat down in week 4 caused such a stir... because Brady typically doesn't put up stinkers.

 

[ManBunts]

Hey Gronkzilla,

I readily admit I have not watched many NE games this year. So, how would the NE offense this year, compare to the Denver offense last year in terms of style, tempo, scheme, running vs passing success? Can you compare and contrast these two for us?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything.. I just would like some point of comparison in order to get an idea of what to expect from the NE offense.

The way that the New England will attack the Seattle defense is probably just as much a mystery to me as it is to you to be honest. This year specifically Bill has this team completely changing their identity week in and week out. Best on display with the previous two games of committing to a short quick pass game against the Ravens to neutralize their pass rush and then the next week flipping to a ground a pound style to run over the smaller DL of the Colts.

I have been trying to speculate on what the Pats will scheme up for this and what I am leaning towards is the Patriots will attempt to establish a running game with Blount and let it feed into play action passes. I imagine due to the match up nightmares that the hawks secondary causes, that they will try using two tight end sets with Gronk and possibly Tim Wright. From what I understand reading around your boards, the Hawks have not been extremely successful guarding tight ends. What I would imagine is a more 50/50 game plan with run/pas versus what the past two Patriots games were like.

Pats will try to get Gronk going up the seams to clear up space in the middle of the field. Then utilize the possession receivers and second tight end to make plays in the vacuum left behind.

I don't envision the Patriots will put themselves in many spread sets due to the lack of pass rush and I don't envision many screens to be used due to the intelligent DB play and lack of blitzing. So that is why I am lead to believe that we will test the absence of Mebane with Blount (Or possibly Gray if Belichick wants a more north/south disciplined runner) which will setup play action up the seams or to the corners. Maybe using Vereen for change of pace testing the linebackers.

Honestly, they could do anything and it wouldn't surprise me, they've taken such a matchup orientated stance this season so this is purely speculation.

This is purely a qualitative argument from me, no real way to give it fact, but I think the one thing the Patriots lacked in their opposition was endurance. The 4 losses they suffered were at the hands of teams that are probably the most Seahawk-like in their abilities. Absolutely punishing, grinding defenses, and steady offenses. The Pats seem to be quite good at the momentum game. As long as they don't make mistakes, even if they're down, they keep chugging along when other teams start to get cocky, make mistakes, etc. In fact, I'd say Pats and Hawks are very much alike in that they don't do super flashy stuff, they just do the fundamentals very well. Problem is, Seahawks are the same, except any mistakes that are made fuel that fire too. We get ourselves as riled up with the bad as we do with the good.

I'm pumped for this game. I'm constantly amazed at what Brady and Belichik can get out of guys like Blount, Amendola, Gray, basically guys that really would be underutilized on any other team or written off. It's a testament to their skills. And I think a huge testament to your offensive line. That said, Seahawks are the exact same thing. We have, I think 2 guys on our starting roster drafted 2nd round or higher? We have Beast Mode who is the most punishing runner in the NFL. We have a QB that your own coach has acknowledged as having an almost supernatural awareness and mobility.

It's gonna be good, and I think we're gonna win.

 

[SHOCKER315]

Hey Gronkzilla,

I readily admit I have not watched many NE games this year. So, how would the NE offense this year, compare to the Denver offense last year in terms of style, tempo, scheme, running vs passing success? Can you compare and contrast these two for us?

I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything.. I just would like some point of comparison in order to get an idea of what to expect from the NE offense.

I have been trying to speculate on what the Pats will scheme up for this and what I am leaning towards is the Patriots will attempt to establish a running game with Blount and let it feed into play action passes. I imagine due to the match up nightmares that the hawks secondary causes, that they will try using two tight end sets with Gronk and possibly Tim Wright. From what I understand reading around your boards, the Hawks have not been extremely successful guarding tight ends. What I would imagine is a more 50/50 game plan with run/pas versus what the past two Patriots games were like.

Pats will try to get Gronk going up the seams to clear up space in the middle of the field. Then utilize the possession receivers and second tight end to make plays in the vacuum left behind.

I don't envision the Patriots will put themselves in many spread sets due to the lack of pass rush and I don't envision many screens to be used due to the intelligent DB play and lack of blitzing. So that is why I am lead to believe that we will test the absence of Mebane with Blount (Or possibly Gray if Belichick wants a more north/south disciplined runner) which will setup play action up the seams or to the corners. Maybe using Vereen for change of pace testing the linebackers.

Honestly, they could do anything and it wouldn't surprise me, they've taken such a matchup orientated stance this season so this is purely speculation.

Interesting, so they are gonna try to transform into the 49ers offense with Frank Gore (Blount) and Vernon Davis (Gronk) but without a running QB (Kap), and with a better pocket passing QB (Brady).

I question NE's ability to run effectively against the Hawks. So your premise of "establishing the run" is a big "what if". So we'll just have to wait and see how that pans out.

I also question how a offense that exploits "match ups" offense actually... matches up... when the personnel on the defense is predominantly better athletically man for man than the offensive players, (with the lone possible exception being Gronk).

I would equate Gronk to Demaryius Thomas with the Broncos last year. He moved all over the field trying to exploit "match ups"... He got his catches, as a suspect Gronk will. But the Denver offense as a whole was stifled with a good run defense, and lot of hitting and tackling to limit YAC, after a bunch of short 3-5 yard passes.

 

[volsunghawk]

But my point is more in the fact that Brady will force this defense to be perfect to win. The margin for error is greatly shrunk when facing an elite QB.

I agree, but you can also flip that around. The margin of error for a QB is greatly shrunk when facing an elite defense

Oh yea, I agree completely with you. Brady needs to be near perfect if we have a shot at winning. I give him 1 interception wiggle room (as long as it's not a pick 6). Typically he usually throws 1 pick because he is locked on Gronk. But he does perform well in big games and is rarely terrible like Manning was last Super Bowl. That's why the KC beat down in week 4 caused such a stir... because Brady typically doesn't put up stinkers.

The NFCCG was like our "KC beat down." The difference in us winning that game was a sneaky-great performance from our D. I've heard a lot of folks say that Green Bay was beating our D, but outside of the Cobb TD and the Starks run at the start of the 4th quarter, I don't see it.

Everyone has seen the Seattle offense struggle from time to time, but no one has seen it play like it did against Green Bay since Wilson came into the league. You have to go back to early 2011 to see the Seattle offense that flustered. So don't count on a repeat of that game from our offense; it's highly unlikely.

 

[EntiatHawk]

Gronk, This is fun.

Here's a thought, the Hawks actually really do not care how you do all your scheming. They line up and wait then they play their defense and wait for you to make a mistake. This defense is very willing to let you have shorter over the middle passes, but their plan is to make that come at a cost. The hits. Also this team typically does not give up a bunch of yac yards.

I think the Ravens have shown that physical stout front 7's can put pressure on the Pats O. The difference is the Raven have a slightly better line but we have a much faster and better back seven.

Here is something you should think about, Green Bay got a historic poor performance from our offense last week and could not win the game. I suspect that you will not see that type of stinker again.

If this game is close in the first half you might start getting worried. Check out how many points we have been allowing in the second half of games... 7 is the high mark.

Fun fact. if/when the Hawks win the Patriots will Tie the Broncos for most SuperB owl losses.

 

[12th_Bob]

Meh, in regards to item #1, yeah not a murders row of passers but Seattle did what was expected and shut down the majority of them and I don't see one name on that list that got "the better" of them in any matchup.

#2 Item, that's the case for a lot of teams however, not many Dlines have the luxury of having three all-pros (Sherman, Thomas, Wagner) on defense and arguably a should of 4th for 1st team (Chancellor).