10 mins of why we should keep Golden Tate

[Hawknballs]

[youtube]bD7m1-wf9AQ[/youtube]

 

[Anonymous]

This just in: Tate is pretty good.

 

[SeahawksFanForever]

Tate is really good. Not taking anything away from him but Russell is going to make a lot of WR's look good throughout his career.

 

[jlwaters1]

I'd really like to resign Tate, if it could be done for a reasonable price. Might be better to lock him up now instead of waiting, if he explodes and has a great year than he'll command more money. Too me he's a STEVE SMITH type player, both are very powerful and thick in the legs and both are great at going and getting the ball.

I'm very excited for Chris Harper as well. Just curious to see how much he'll impact Tate's playing time. Say Rice is gone after next year than You could possibly have a Harper, Harvin, Tate, Baldwin lineup next year.. (I really like Rice, but his cap number will be huge next year).

Tate's certainly a fun player to watch.

 

[tonyseahawk]

Man that dude is friggin' SICK nimble. He and P Harvin are going make so many plays almost laughable. Lots of broken ankles coming me thinks

 

[HawkWow]

I am certain we've not seen the best of Tate yet. The human highlight reel, Percy Harvin, will likely bring that out in him. That's the good news, the bad news is it's likely Tate will want more than the typical #3 receiver and on this team, I don't think he's worth any more than that...if that.

 

[jammerhawk]

At some point all of us have to acknowledge we really have no clear certainty as to the direction the team will take with Tate. He is an exceptionally talented WR, but has been slow to develop until last season, when he broke out. He's a WR who plays bigger at times than his physical size but still shows an occasional rawness in his mastery of the whole route tree.

To me there is a lot to like and yet there is the negative that Harvin may be a better duplicate of Tate making Tate redundant. If he has a great year this season I'm sure the team will work hard to attempt to keep him here. He may wind up to be too expensive however.

I hope he stays, I like his physical play and his superior RAC ability

 

[kearly]

If the money was the same for both and I had to choose just one to keep between Tate and Chancellor, I'd keep Tate. That's how much I think of him at this point. In reality, he's almost guaranteed to be cheaper than Kam was to extend. IMO, Tate has to be our team's top priority next offseason. I know that we are crowded at WR (especially money wise), but letting Tate walk would be a big, fat, ugly mistake.

 

[Hawks46]

I think he's every bit as elusive as Harvin is, with probably better balance and less speed.

I just want to see him and Harvin on the field at the same time as much as possible. Look at what Tate did against Chicago and Minnesota. Maybe 5 guys in the league can make those plays regularly; Harvin is one of them.

 

[Sac]

If Tate makes another big jump this year, well, we could certainly do worse than having two players with that kind of ability.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Honestly, I hate to say it but looking at our current list of WRs, it wouldn't surprise me if DOUG BALDWIN is the odd-man out of the group.

WR, Sidney Rice, 6-4, 205, 26
WR, Golden Tate, 5-10, 202, 24
WR, Percy Harvin, 5-11, 184, 24
WR, Doug Baldwin, 5-10, 189, 24
WR, Chris Harper, 6-1, 234, 23
WR, Stephen Williams, 6-5, 208, 26
WR, Jermain Kearse, 6-1, 209, 23
WR, Phil Bates, 6-1, 220, 23
WR, Matt Austin, 6-2, 212, 24
WR, Charly Martin, 6-1, 212, 29
WR, Brett Swain, 6-0, 200, 27
WR, Bryan Walters 6-0, 190 25

I feel like the locks are Rice, Tate, Harvin, and Harper. Why Harper? Not because he's a 4th round pick, but I feel like the Seahawks will mold him into the Ben Obomanu role. Harper is raw enough to learn to backup all WR roles (flanker, split-end, and slot) and out of all the WRs we have his size and athleticism offers the most value as an ace, Special Teamer. The dude could be a stone cold killer as a Gunner. At 6'1, 230, 4.45 speed, and 20 bench reps, he is almost a weak-side linebacker.

So that will leave the only question left, do the Seahawks carry 5 or 6 WRs. If its 5, then most likely Baldwin and Stephen Williams will battle for that last spot.

Baldwin's case is that he was magical as an undrafted F/A in 2011, but does he offer any other value than a glorified slot WR? Seahawks chugged along last season while he was injured, and being a run-heavy offense the slot position was a slightly undervalued and diminished role in our Offense. Wilson didn’t use Baldwin, like Tarvaris Jackson used Baldwin, or how Hasselbeck used Stokely.

And what makes matter worse for Baldwin’s case is the Seahawks heavily invested in Percy Harvin, who will mostly line-up at Split-End and Slot in 3 WRs sets. There is no doubt Harvin is the better of the two.

Then lets talk about Golden Tate, the guy has legitimate talent, he can score Touchdowns, which is one of Baldwin’s strength as well, but Tate offers three things Baldwin doesn’t excel in as much compared to our other diminutive WRs… Yards After Catch, Yards after Contact, and great Special Team value as Returners. Both Tate and Harvin with the ball in their hands can consistently make people miss or run through tackles something the Seahawks value in their offense. While Harvin is more dynamic than Tate, they are practically interchangeable. Baldwin doesn't offer those skills or thier versatility as much in comparison.

Now on to Stephen Williams, we don’t really know much about him save for Larry Fitzgerald saying that Williams would most likely be the guy who end up replacing him some day, and when Schneider picked him up, after the Cardinals let him go, JS and Carroll were both excited by Williams' potential. I can see why looking at his Combine numbers courtesy of nfldraftscout.com:

Height: 6044
Weight: 210
40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
20 Yrd Dash: 2.52
10 Yrd Dash: 1.48
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 15
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'05"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.11
3-Cone Drill: 6.81

At 6’5, 207+ pounds he is the only WR on the roster with the length and catch radius that even compares to Sidney Rice other than uber-athletic TE, Luke Willson. I think the Seahawks value that, they know how much Rice is important to their offense in the bigger picture. And that it is essential to have a viable backup plan to one of their key players.

However, the bigger picture of the Seahawks keeping Williams over Baldwin is that Rice makes A LOT OF MONEY, and with Harvin on board, and Tate becoming a free agent, the Seahawks could be looking to pry themselves away from Rice’s contract. So in hindsight, if they can develop Williams into a starting flanker, then Rice becomes expendable in 2014.

If they keep Baldwin instead they’ll most likely have Rice, Tate, Harvin, Baldwin, Harper… Tate and Baldwin become free agents, if they lose both then we only have Rice, Harvin, and Harper… Rice isn’t expendable in this scenario.

If they keep Williams instead of Baldwin they’ll have Rice, Tate, Harvin, Harper, and Williams… only Tate would become a free agent, but with Williams, Rice becomes expendable making it easier to retain Tate.

However, if the Seahawks keep 6 WRs (like they should) none of this really matters.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

It's going to be a sad day when we have to let some of these guys go because there is just no way we can keep everybody. Maybe he will do a New England and accept less money to stay on a potential dynasty in the making? I wouldn't count on it but stranger things have happened.

 

[SE174]

Might be 8 months late, but one could say Tate single-handedly beat the Packers. :thumbup:

 

[DavidSeven]

Baldwin's case is that he was magical as an undrafted F/A in 2011, but does he offer any other value than a glorified slot WR?

What does it mean to be a "glorified slot WR"? That's his position. He's a slot receiver. Is Marshawn Lynch a glorified running back? Not everyone needs Harvin's versatility to be valuable.

Harvin, Rice, Tate and Baldwin are locks for the 2013 receiving corps. Baldwin is a RFA in 2014 and can be retained $2 million or less. He'll be here for two more years barring the completely unexpected. The question marks for 2014 are on Rice (cap number) and Tate (UFA status).

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Baldwin's case is that he was magical as an undrafted F/A in 2011, but does he offer any other value than a glorified slot WR?

What does it mean to be a "glorified slot WR"? That's his position. He's a slot receiver. Is Marshawn Lynch a glorified running back? Not everyone needs Harvin's versatility to be valuable.

Harvin, Rice, Tate and Baldwin are locks for the 2013 receiving corps. Baldwin is a RFA in 2014 and can be retained $2 million or less. He'll be here for two more years barring the completely unexpected. The question marks for 2014 are on Rice (cap number) and Tate (UFA status).

I would say it would be far more likely they let Rice go than Tate. I hope both can be kept somehow but that's probably a pipedream.

 

[CANHawk]

Harvin, Rice, Tate and Baldwin are locks for the 2013 receiving corps.

Agreed. The other two that will be in serious contention are the rookie Chris Harper and the FA Stephen Williams, everyone else is fodder and practice squad candidates. While these two dudes may appear to have more to offer than Doug Baldwin on paper, Doug has proven in real regular season games against live ammo to be a starting caliber reciever in the NFL. That is worth a TON imo. Until these two new guys prove to bring more than potential to the table, Doug's position on the roster will be totally safe.

 

[taz291819]

In a perfect world, Rice would re-structure his contract in order to keep Tate. And then in a few years, Harvin does the same to keep someone else.

Currently, really only Rice and Tate have proven themselves on this team regarding WRs. Harvin is new, he hasn't proved anything yet.

I don't see Baldwin as a casualty at all, I think he's content making #4 WR money. He just doesn't seem like the "money-grabber" type person to me. And really, Tate may be that way. He seems simply more like the "fame" type person. Maybe that's enough for him.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Baldwin's case is that he was magical as an undrafted F/A in 2011, but does he offer any other value than a glorified slot WR?

What does it mean to be a "glorified slot WR"? That's his position. He's a slot receiver. Is Marshawn Lynch a glorified running back? Not everyone needs Harvin's versatility to be valuable.

Harvin, Rice, Tate and Baldwin are locks for the 2013 receiving corps. Baldwin is a RFA in 2014 and can be retained $2 million or less. He'll be here for two more years barring the completely unexpected. The question marks for 2014 are on Rice (cap number) and Tate (UFA status).

Exactly, he's just a slot WR. Can he play flanker? Can he play split-end? Does he provide an awesome value on Special Teams... I could care less if Baldwin is an RFA, that means nothing save for the fact the Seahawks could retain him for another year at a reasonable price... I'm just thinking about the bigger picture of it all. As I said, I think the Seahawks drafted Harper to fill the Obomanu role: A WR who can play all three positions at a solid level, and have above average to elite significance as a blocker, as well as be an awesome special teamer specifically as a Gunner. If Harper can show that he can do all of those roles, then he's easily a lock.

As long as Tate and Harvin stay healthy, you really don't have any need for Baldwin, both Tate and Harvin can switch off in the split-end and slot roles, IF Baldwin sticks he will most likely be reduced 1-2 targets a game for 15-20 catches a year.

At least Williams has the value of backing up Rice, as well as, making him expendable in 2014. I have nothing against Baldwin, he just offers little in versatility as well as future value. However, while I would like the Seahawks to keep him, I just think he'll be the odd man out if they only keep 5 WRs.

 

[HawksFTW]

The only problem I see in Tate's game is blocking downfield. It may be a symptom of the Sean Lee (legal) block, and negative attention it received, but he was not the most willing blocker down field. A small gripe to be sure, but it is interesting that the Hawks brought in two WRs known for their ability to block.

 

[DavidSeven]

Exactly, he's just a slot WR. Can he play flanker? Can he play split-end? Does he provide an awesome value on Special Teams... I could care less if Baldwin is an RFA, that means nothing save for the fact the Seahawks could retain him for another year at a reasonable price... I'm just thinking about the bigger picture of it all. As I said, I think the Seahawks drafted Harper to fill the Obomanu role: A WR who can play all three positions at a solid level, and have above average to elite significance as a blocker, as well as be an awesome special teamer specifically as a Gunner. If Harper can show that he can do all of those roles, then he's easily a lock.

As long as Tate and Harvin stay healthy, you really don't have any need for Baldwin, both Tate and Harvin can switch off in the split-end and slot roles, IF Baldwin sticks he will most likely be reduced 1-2 targets a game for 15-20 catches a year.

At least Williams has the value of backing up Rice, as well as, making him expendable in 2014. I have nothing against Baldwin, he just offers little in versatility as well as future value. However, while I would like the Seahawks to keep him, I just think he'll be the odd man out if they only keep 5 WRs.

Baldwin can play all the WR positions. All of Seattle's WRs are expected to line up everywhere. He just happens to be the best on our team in the slot (pre-Harvin). He also plays Special Teams on kick coverage.

Pete Carroll also said he plans to play Harper on the outside and specifically said he was NOT a slot guy. I seriously doubt Harper could play the slot any better than Baldwin could play the outside, and Baldwin is far more trustworthy as a receiver in general at this point. I think Harper will make the team, but not at the expense of any of the top four WRs. He's a solid bet for WR #5. Williams and maybe Kearse have a shot of either taking Harper's place at #5 or making it on the roster as the WR #6.