Per SI: Steelers Done with Russell Wilson

toffee

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Wow. Well said.

The only change I'd make to that is that early Russ was a leader. It was Mr. Unlimited that turned into the ego-filled nightmare that ended his tenure here.
My thoughts:

One doesn't change that drastically in midlife. Mr. Unlimited was part of Wilson from day one. There may be an effort masking it but it was there

Speaking as a former Russellette, and a current geNO, I am of the opinion that the Geno version 2022/2923 can win the Superbowl of 2013 and 2014. GeNO of 2024 maybe not as he acquired some bad habits.
 

IndyHawk

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Don't be lazy. Look them up and educate yourself.
I looked up and posted the all-time sacks taken by QBs .. I may as well post that again
so we can educate everyone on an all-time record that Mr. Unlimited (Me3) will have all
to himself very soon if he finds a team that will have him.
Note to all, look at the years played by the QBs .. Me3 will be the quickest to do it by far.

1739831658100
 

Rat

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I looked up and posted the all-time sacks taken by QBs .. I may as well post that again
so we can educate everyone on an all-time record that Mr. Unlimited (Me3) will have all
to himself very soon if he finds a team that will have him.
Note to all, look at the years played by the QBs .. Me3 will be the quickest to do it by far.

View attachment 69555
Now, THAT is a record he might legitimately shatter. Consider me educated.
 

keasley45

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I guess the whole Russ debate falls into the categories of "Did Pete elevate Russ" or "Did Russ elevate Pete". I'm for the latter of course, but to each their own. I think there was a tremendous weight thrown on him since 2015 on and he performed admirably. Inconsistent running games, awful Olines, game plans that were questionable at the least, etc,,,. He was good enough that 10 to 12 wins were practically automatic in his prime. Dave Krieg and Geno Smith couldn't do that.
The only year he had an inconsistent running game was 2017 and that was only because of mass injury. Our record that year was 9-7 WITH solid defensive support. Every year thereafter, our RBs averaged top 10 to top 5 production in terms of ypc.

He also didnt have to deal with a horrible defense until 2020. Before that we were middle of the pack.

But apples to apples? This is just fact - Geno Smith has never had a running game that was even top 20, let alone rop 10. And, he just this year had a defense that only over the 2nd half was anywhere close to the defenses Russ had from 2015 on.

That is just reality. In 2020 when we had a questionable D and underutilized run game, we stumbled to 12-4 and were enbarrased in the playoffs, a game where Russ finished 11-27 with a TD... for the Rams, and 2 for us. It was the defining case of ' solved by a defense that knew how he played'.

In 2021, again with a bad D and bad run game, we started with a losing record BEFORE Russ got hurt . After his rush back from injury, he was even worse.

So if you want a remotely comperable analysis of Geno v Russ with similar supporting pieces, the only years that Russ's supporting cast even remotely approached the poor play Geno has dealt with is 2020 and 2021. That is just the reality of it. Geno has had perennial bottom 3 run games, defense and o lines as a starter. Russ NEVER had those failures across 3 supporting units. It just never happened. And that is to say nothing for the fact that Russ had Schottenheimer calling plays for him in his best years and STILL waffled when the games became single elimination. And he has waffled every season since. Geno has had 2 guys that were fired.

The thing that clouds the negative aspects of Russ's play and the impact it had on the offense was that his stats were as steady as a rock, regardless of how poorly we faired overall at season's end. Even in 2021 before his injury, we were below 500 but his individual stats looked great. Those handful of games and our record are as close to a 1:1 comp between Geno and Russ under similar circumstances (same OC, poor balance running the ballx and poor defense) AND, we were among the 2 worst teams in the league at sustaining drives, plays per drive and effectiveness PASSING on 3rd down - a trend that has also been fairly consistent with Russ even after leaving Seattle. Geno, the following year took the same team, same OC, same crap defense (it was actually worse) same unreliable running game and got us into the playoffs. Nothing about the 2022 seahawks supporting cast was better than ehat Russ had when he had us below 500, despite posting his feast or famine, consistent stat lines.
 

pittpnthrs

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The only year he had an inconsistent running game was 2017 and that was only because of mass injury. Our record that year was 9-7 WITH solid defensive support. Every year thereafter, our RBs averaged top 10 to top 5 production in terms of ypc.

He also didnt have to deal with a horrible defense until 2020. Before that we were middle of the pack.

But apples to apples? This is just fact - Geno Smith has never had a running game that was even top 20, let alone rop 10. And, he just this year had a defense that only over the 2nd half was anywhere close to the defenses Russ had from 2015 on.

That is just reality. In 2020 when we had a questionable D and underutilized run game, we stumbled to 12-4 and were enbarrased in the playoffs, a game where Russ finished 11-27 with a TD... for the Rams, and 2 for us. It was the defining case of ' solved by a defense that knew how he played'.

In 2021, again with a bad D and bad run game, we started with a losing record BEFORE Russ got hurt . After his rush back from injury, he was even worse.

So if you want a remotely comperable analysis of Geno v Russ with similar supporting pieces, the only years that Russ's supporting cast even remotely approached the poor play Geno has dealt with is 2020 and 2021. That is just the reality of it. Geno has had perennial bottom 3 run games, defense and o lines as a starter. Russ NEVER had those failures across 3 supporting units. It just never happened. And that is to say nothing for the fact that Russ had Schottenheimer calling plays for him in his best years and STILL waffled when the games became single elimination. And he has waffled every season since. Geno has had 2 guys that were fired.

The thing that clouds the negative aspects of Russ's play and the impact it had on the offense was that his stats were as steady as a rock, regardless of how poorly we faired overall at season's end. Even in 2021 before his injury, we were below 500 but his individual stats looked great. Those handful of games and our record are as close to a 1:1 comp between Geno and Russ under similar circumstances (same OC, poor balance running the ballx and poor defense) AND, we were among the 2 worst teams in the league at sustaining drives, plays per drive and effectiveness PASSING on 3rd down - a trend that has also been fairly consistent with Russ even after leaving Seattle. Geno, the following year took the same team, same OC, same crap defense (it was actually worse) same unreliable running game and got us into the playoffs. Nothing about the 2022 seahawks supporting cast was better than ehat Russ had when he had us below 500, despite posting his feast or famine, consistent stat lines.

So do you believe the Seahawks would have fared as well from 2015 on with Geno as the QB? That sure sounds like what your saying.
 

toffee

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I looked up and posted the all-time sacks taken by QBs .. I may as well post that again
so we can educate everyone on an all-time record that Mr. Unlimited (Me3) will have all
to himself very soon if he finds a team that will have him.
Note to all, look at the years played by the QBs .. Me3 will be the quickest to do it by far.

View attachment 69555
12 more sacks to become #1 of all time? Oh that will take less than three games, assuming he can find a team to sign him for 2025.
 
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toffee

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He won’t. I think the record is safe lol

Nah, got hero ball, will travel. He will find a job. But three obstacles to overcome:

1. His agent only have him as a client. He has no contacts.
2. Wilson is not into taking less money.
3. After 4 HCs and 5 or 6 OCs, he ain't coach friendly, the strong coaches fired him, the weak ones got fired because of him.
 

toffee

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it all started with Ciara and the Hollywood stuff.
Real Hollywood may not accept Ciara, because she is definitely not Hollywood enough. Just like the early years of Wilson when he wasn't black enough.
In his early years, he was polo, Hawaii shirt, now, he is gold chain, wrong huge gold chain. Hey, few A-list Hollywood attire like the current Wilson.
 

SeaofGreen

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I am taking the liberty to speak for Russell Wilson fanboys, as he is the most wronged QB in the league:

Pete Carroll's antiquated system handcuffed Wilson, John Schneider's lousy OL drafting limited Wilson, Bevell's wrong play call at the Super Bowl sullied Wilson, Hackett was useless, Payton was evil, Tomlin is a two faced XXXX.

And all the Geno Smith fanboys on .NET are blinded by hate.
Seriously? Was this meant to be sarcastic? I'll try to be objective point by point.
1. Russ had the most success under Pete's "antiquated system". Many believe the handcuffs are what helped him be successful because his game was limited.
2. There is much speculation about "the play" and who was at fault but in my case that's not what changed my opinion of him as a player. I think what sullied him was the way he played and acted after leaving Seattle.
3. Without excusing JS I would say Russells play style made things incredibly hard on the OL. It's not easy protecting your QB for 10 seconds, not knowing where to push or contain the D lineman while he dropped back 15 yards and ran circles rather than working on time within the pocket or stepping up.
4. Hackett's biggest mistake may have been believing Russell was better than he was and allowing him freedom to be head chef in the instead of just having him make the 1 dish he knew how to make.
5. I don't like Payton either but I believe he was more successful with QBs considered to be less talented than Russ. Payton was able to get a rookie to run his system much better than Russ was able to.
6. This one is more speculative on my part. I think Tomlin did Russ a solid when he gave him a job that Fields didn't deserve to lose thus being more 2 faced to Fields than Russ.
7. Geno isn't perfect but I think he gets more blane than Russ and has a more rounded skill set to take advantage of.
 

toffee

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Seriously? Was this meant to be sarcastic? I'll try to be objective point by point.
1. Russ had the most success under Pete's "antiquated system". Many believe the handcuffs are what helped him be successful because his game was limited.
Wilson begged to differ, he after all petitioned to "let him cook", ie out of kitchen you go Pete.
3. Without excusing JS I would say Russells play style made things incredibly hard on the OL. It's not easy protecting your QB for 10 seconds, not knowing where to push or contain the D lineman while he dropped back 15 yards and ran circles rather than working on time within the pocket or stepping up.
Again, Wilson publicly denounced the OL, he was tired of being hit, remember?
4. Hackett's biggest mistake may have been believing Russell was better than he was and allowing him freedom to be head chef in the instead of just having him make the 1 dish he knew how to make.
Hackett was weak, Wilson got him fired.
5. I don't like Payton either but I believe he was more successful with QBs considered to be less talented than Russ. Payton was able to get a rookie to run his system much better than Russ was able to.
Wildson publicly said that he played for two great coaches, Pete and Tomlin. nuff?
7. Geno isn't perfect but I think he gets more blane than Russ and has a more rounded skill set to take advantage of.
You may wanna run that by the geNOs, lol.

I am messing with ya, you know that, right?
 

NINEster

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Its not that he isnt unwilling to change his style of play, he CANT change it. For years the dude pined for a Drew Brees styled offense. He lobbied openly for Sean Peyton thinking SPs genius could elevate him in ways PCs couldn't. But the fundamental flaW in Wilson's game has been there from the beginning- he simply cannot process information quickly enough to succeed in a typical NFL scheme that requires the QB to make quick decisions, react according to what he is seeing, and distribute the ball on time within the flow of the play-call. Russell NEVER did that. Not in 2013, not in 2017, not in 2019 or 2020... never. He simply overcame this inability by extending plays with his legs and finding success on a play by virtue of his other talents.

But functioning in a traditional offense, let alone one that is sophisticated (read qb friendly, but reliant on fast decions) was never in the cards for Russ. He (just like 95% of qbs who try to do what the great pocket passers in league history do) cant see the game quickly enough in that first 3 seconds after the snap to operate in a 'standard' NFL offense.

The fact that he succeeded in playing his style of football and that he did so in a system that bent itself sround his shortfalls for so long is utterly amazing and flies in the face of conventional wisdom.

He is 1 of 1 in the history of the league. And that is a mark to be proud of.

AND - he cant read defense.

Thank you for so eloquently saying what I've been saying for years, haha.

Perfectly stated, exactly as I would have said it.

The 1 of 1 is a highly underappreciated statement........we will likely never see another Wilson type QB, at least not for a very long time. He did 1-2 things at a super high level, maybe best deep ball and broken play QB for a few years in the NFL, and the rest average or below average. Only Wilson could lead the league in TD passes and punts per drive in a season.......LMAO, SMH.

I would be remiss if I didn't add that Carroll's scramble drills contributed a bit to him succeeding over the 2012-2017 period or so, and also saving his running for those unstoppable 2 minute drills (impossible to stop).

Best deep ball in the game, and once Lockett and Metcalf were sync'd up, Wilson finally had elite deep threats versus the early years. Unfortunately, January football takes away deep threats, even Mahomes had to adjust to that.

As the Alex Rollins video stated "Wilson can only run 1 offense", and history will show that Carroll figured out what that was early on and would likely do better with Wilson than any offensive guru in NFL history could (because their ego wouldn't allow them to run such an offense).
 

NINEster

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7. Geno isn't perfect but I think he gets more blane than Russ and has a more rounded skill set to take advantage of.

Geno is an anomaly.

Plays the position better than Wilson, but never had the teams Wilson had when he had his 99-2 record vs the Niners.

Wherever/whenever the 49ers faced Wilson, the 2013 Seahawks defense was always somewhat present, and Wilson only needed one drive to win those games.
 

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