Geno’s Back

DarkVictory23 · Feb 17, 2024

This is what gets me about this narrative: The 'we've seen what Geno's ceiling' line as though that makes an argument. Geno was a top 5 QB a year ago. (Even if you rate him just outside the top 5, he was in that conversation.)

You're telling me that Geno's ceiling being top 5 like that's a bad thing? Like, WTAF are you talking about? Top 5 isn't good enough? I'm sorry, but if you can't imagine a world where a team does well with top 5 (or near enough) QB play, then give up now. Patrick Mahomes is already on a team. Josh Allen is already on a team. We might as well just tank until they both retire, I guess?

Look, I'm well aware that Geno is 'old'. I absolutely think the Seahawks should probably look at drafting a QB this year. Maybe even another one next year. We need someone to take over (and I'll be honest in thinking I don't think Drew is ever going to become a starter level talent in the league even though I hope he proves me wrong).

But do this thought experiment for me: Find me a team, any team, in the last decade, who had a bottom 5 defense in both yards AND points, running backs who were both 20th or worse in success rate and yards per attempt, a WR corps who was bottom 10 in drop rate, an offensive line that is bottom 10 in pass blocking, and a schedule that was the 5th most difficult in the league and still had a winning record and almost made the playoffs.

You find me one team, led by Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes or any other QB, with all those issues, and did better than these Geno Smith led Seahawks and I'll immediately sign on to saying kick the bum out. But I doubt you'll be able to do it.

sutz · Feb 17, 2024

Geno is 'old' but he is low mileage for his age.

DarkVictory23 · Feb 17, 2024

sutz said:
Geno is 'old' but he is low mileage for his age.

True, but that doesn't always matter. Fortunately, QBs are the most physically protected position in the NFL. Could Geno (theoretically) deliver at this level for another 3 or 4 years? Yeah, he could. Don't think we should count on it, though.

keasley45 · Feb 17, 2024

DarkVictory23 said:
This is what gets me about this narrative: The 'we've seen what Geno's ceiling' line as though that makes an argument. Geno was a top 5 QB a year ago. (Even if you rate him just outside the top 5, he was in that conversation.)

You're telling me that Geno's ceiling being top 5 like that's a bad thing? Like, WTAF are you talking about? Top 5 isn't good enough? I'm sorry, but if you can't imagine a world where a team does well with top 5 (or near enough) QB play, then give up now. Patrick Mahomes is already on a team. Josh Allen is already on a team. We might as well just tank until they both retire, I guess?

Look, I'm well aware that Geno is 'old'. I absolutely think the Seahawks should probably look at drafting a QB this year. Maybe even another one next year. We need someone to take over (and I'll be honest in thinking I don't think Drew is ever going to become a starter level talent in the league even though I hope he proves me wrong).

But do this thought experiment for me: Find me a team, any team, in the last decade, who had a bottom 5 defense in both yards AND points, running backs who were both 20th or worse in success rate and yards per attempt, a WR corps who was bottom 10 in drop rate, an offensive line that is bottom 10 in pass blocking, and a schedule that was the 5th most difficult in the league and still had a winning record and almost made the playoffs.

You find me one team, led by Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes or any other QB, with all those issues, and did better than these Geno Smith led Seahawks and I'll immediately sign on to saying kick the bum out. But I doubt you'll be able to do it.

I've made a similar argument quoting similar shortcomings in terms of his support, or lack thereof. It doesn't help. Even showed that Geno was the only qb to finish as highly rated as he did last year with a defense, o line and running game as bad as ours us. No qb did more with less. None.

And btw, his OC was unceremoniously handed his walking papers.

To say nothing for the fact that he was tops in the league in qbr over the last 5 or 6 weeks.

Last year he finished in a 'slump' and folks were ready to pull the plug. This year he finished literally at the top of the qb stack and crickets. And again. All with league worst (bottom 5) protection, running game and defense.

Last year the argument was he couldn't bring the team back from deficits. This year he set the NFL record for 4th qtr comeback drives. And... crickets.

I hope he goes nuts in 24. Whether here or somewhere else. The dude can ball. He might not be elite, but he played close enough to it to garner an mvp vote. You don't get that kind of recognition if you can't play the position.

GemCity · Feb 17, 2024

keasley45 said:
I'd rather have a stud ILB (or two) a stud Guard, or a stud Safety. I wouldnt sacrifice draft capital to trade up.

Regardless of who we'd draft in the middle of the 1st, I doubt they'd be ready to lead us anywhere meaningful before '26. So if Geno is playing Brock Purdy until then, that's fine by me. Get the right guy when the right guy comes to you or is reasonably attainable. Build the rest of your team until then behind a qb who finished 8th his first year starting and 13th last year despite bottom 5 support in the running game, o line and defense.

This all day.

JayhawkMike · Feb 17, 2024

Anyone considering Geno a Top 5 QB in the NFL seriously needs their head examined. If you can't even name 10 QBs better than Geno right now (though it is closer to 20) in the NFL I am not sure you know enough to have a rational conversation with.

Chukarhawk · Feb 17, 2024

hawkfan68 said:
Sign this one up for the Seahawks QB competition...

One thing for certain....she would score more than Geno

I'm in love.

DarkVictory23 · Feb 17, 2024

JayhawkMike said:
Anyone considering Geno a Top 5 QB in the NFL seriously needs their head examined. If you can't even name 10 QBs better than Geno right now (though it is closer to 20) in the NFL I am not sure you know enough to have a rational conversation with.

First of all, I said top 5 a year ago, not this past season. But over the past two seasons, Geno absolutely has been a top 10 QB. You might be able to name 20 players who you personally like better or 20 who you think will be better in 2024, but you sure as hell can't name 20 who have actually played better these past 2 years.

There are only 7-8 players who I would absolutely agree who have had a better 2 years than Geno. (Purdy, Mahomes, Tua, Dak, Allen, Goff, Lamar, and Love).

Hurts and Burrow, we can talk. I'll accept those. They've got brighter futures but their overall performance the past two years, I personally lean Geno but you're not crazy or a hater for thinking otherwise.

But after that? Nope. You're grabbing names of people who you think have been better but actually haven't been. I can even see the ones you might try to come at me with.

Stafford? Nope. Cousins? Nope. Lawrence? Nope. Herbert? Nope.

Of the 32 QBs who have played the most snaps over the past 2 years, Geno is #10 in Success Rate, #7 in Passer Rating, #11 in QBR, #10 in ANY/A.

You notice how in not one of these categories is there ever more than 10 people ahead of Geno? That's because over the past two seasons there aren't more than 10 guys who have actually played better than Geno.

But my challenge to you and anyone else who think you 'know' better, remains open: Forget the QB stats. Just find me ONE team, forget the past decade I'll let you go back 20 years... find me ONE team led by any QB with bottom 10 defense, running game, receiver drops, and OL facing a top 5 most difficult schedule that did better than the 2023 Seahawks with Geno under center and I'll bow to your superior football knowledge and join you in trying to run the dude out of town.

Or you know, you can go back to posting passive aggressive snipes like a middle schooler. You know, whichever.

JayhawkMike · Feb 17, 2024

Nobody is defending the defense but almost nobody believes that the Seahawks would have a snowball in hells chance against ANY team that was in the playoff this year. The OFFENSE certainly could not even hold their own let alone compensate for the defense.

Imagine IF the Seahawks had made the postseason this year. They are not beating a single team and almost every game would be a blowout. Geno cannot carry the team and MOST QBs cannot carry their team. But he is also not doing anything most any UDFAs couldn't provide in the exact same circumstances.

He is, simply put, a waste of time.

bigcc · Feb 17, 2024

sutz said:
Geno is 'old' but he is low mileage for his age.

That's helpful for injury concern, not the reality of aging and its limitations on physical ability.

Cousins, tannehill, garapolo, Russ are in FA for a reason, Carr was recently.

If people think he’s getting any better they don't know what they're talking about.

The regression from two years ago to last year, is probably what you'll see this year, if not at a faster decline.

bigcc · Feb 17, 2024

JayhawkMike said:
Nobody is defending the defense but almost nobody believes that the Seahawks would have a snowball in hells chance against ANY team that was in the playoff this year. The OFFENSE certainly could not even hold their own let alone compensate for the defense.

Imagine IF the Seahawks had made the postseason this year. They are not beating a single team and almost every game would be a blowout. Geno cannot carry the team and MOST QBs cannot carry their team. But he is also not doing anything most any UDFAs couldn't provide in the exact same circumstances.

He is, simply put, a waste of time.

If they'd made the playoffs they would have replaced the rams to play the lions who they literally already beat in Detroit, and would have gone on to play the bucs.

I agree with your general sentiment, but those would have both been winnable, simply due to what the slotting would've been.

Maelstrom787 · Feb 17, 2024

JayhawkMike said:
Nobody is defending the defense but almost nobody believes that the Seahawks would have a snowball in hells chance against ANY team that was in the playoff this year. The OFFENSE certainly could not even hold their own let alone compensate for the defense.

Imagine IF the Seahawks had made the postseason this year. They are not beating a single team and almost every game would be a blowout. Geno cannot carry the team and MOST QBs cannot carry their team. But he is also not doing anything most any UDFAs couldn't provide in the exact same circumstances.

He is, simply put, a waste of time.

Wh... what?

bigcc · Feb 17, 2024

Maelstrom787 said:
Wh... what?

I didn't even make it that far in responding.

I've repeatedly endorsed moving on from geno.... Due to cap and age.

If we were playing solely for this year alone (let alone the playoffs last year), given cap space, geno would be BY FAR the best answer, and comparing him to udfa makes me wonder if he was serious or not.

Maelstrom787 · Feb 17, 2024

bigcc said:
I didn't even make it that far in responding.

I've repeatedly endorsed moving on from geno.... Due to cap and age.

If we were playing solely for this year alone (let alone the playoffs last year), given cap space, geno would be BY FAR the best answer, and comparing him to udfa makes me wonder if he was serious or not.

Oh, he's serious.

WarHawks · Feb 17, 2024

rigelian said:
How many great QBs have you seen without a serviceable OL. How many rookies have been ruined due to a lack thereof? By the way, swinging at a QBofF that fails isn't a single year setback, it's a multi-year setback.

1. Russ in his prime routinely made amazing plays when the oline failed him. His escapability and ability to create something out of nothing is what made him great. 2. Many have been ruined, but the great ones are able to rise above it. Again, that's why they are considered great. 3. Fear of failure is the worst motivation for not doing something that there is. By that logic, no rookie qb would ever get drafted. It's long past time to put our big boy pants on and stop living in fear.

bigcc · Feb 17, 2024

WarHawks said:
1. Russ in his prime routinely made amazing plays when the oline failed him. His escapability and ability to create something out of nothing is what made him great. 2. Many have been ruined, but the great ones are able to rise above it. Again, that's why they are considered great. 3. Fear of failure is the worst motivation for not doing something that there is. By that logic, no rookie qb would ever get drafted. It's long past time to put our big boy pants on and stop living in fear.

Wait till he hears about the time we swung at qbotf Flynn and how long it set us back.

The OL definitely needs work, but it's not a coincidence that the QBs in the superbowl were a 1st ballot HOF and rookie contract qb. Same the year before. Same the year before that (ok Stafford is more hall of very good).

Most importantly, like you said, if you're afraid of drafting a miss, you'll never draft one,especially at a position like qb where only one gets to play.

rigelian · Feb 18, 2024

Russ in his prime had the best defense in the NFL backing him up and an offensive line that could open holes for one of the best running backs in the league. By the way, the teams in the Superbowl also had very good offensive lines and strong defenses as well. If you want an example of what happens to great talent, with a bad line...look at Andrew Luck, or more recently Brice Young.

bigcc · Feb 18, 2024

rigelian said:
Russ in his prime had the best defense in the NFL backing him up and an offensive line that could open holes for one of the best running backs in the league. By the way, the teams in the Superbowl also had very good offensive lines and strong defenses as well. If you want an example of what happens to great talent, with a bad line...look at Andrew Luck, or more recently Brice Young.

Luck-4x pro bowler, 4-4 playoff record in 6 seasons after being picked 1st

Is that what I'm looking at? Bryce young has one season after being picked 1st with his best receiving option being 33 year old Adam thielen who hasn't hit 1k receiving since 2018, what's your point?

rigelian · Feb 18, 2024

Luck physically battered and destroyed and out of the league far too soon. Moreover, we aren't going to have a high enough pick. Brice Young's offensive line was horrible, not just his receiving group.

CPHawk · Feb 18, 2024

DarkVictory23 said:
First of all, I said top 5 a year ago, not this past season. But over the past two seasons, Geno absolutely has been a top 10 QB. You might be able to name 20 players who you personally like better or 20 who you think will be better in 2024, but you sure as hell can't name 20 who have actually played better these past 2 years.

There are only 7-8 players who I would absolutely agree who have had a better 2 years than Geno. (Purdy, Mahomes, Tua, Dak, Allen, Goff, Lamar, and Love).

Hurts and Burrow, we can talk. I'll accept those. They've got brighter futures but their overall performance the past two years, I personally lean Geno but you're not crazy or a hater for thinking otherwise.

But after that? Nope. You're grabbing names of people who you think have been better but actually haven't been. I can even see the ones you might try to come at me with.

Stafford? Nope. Cousins? Nope. Lawrence? Nope. Herbert? Nope.

Of the 32 QBs who have played the most snaps over the past 2 years, Geno is #10 in Success Rate, #7 in Passer Rating, #11 in QBR, #10 in ANY/A.

You notice how in not one of these categories is there ever more than 10 people ahead of Geno? That's because over the past two seasons there aren't more than 10 guys who have actually played better than Geno.

But my challenge to you and anyone else who think you 'know' better, remains open: Forget the QB stats. Just find me ONE team, forget the past decade I'll let you go back 20 years... find me ONE team led by any QB with bottom 10 defense, running game, receiver drops, and OL facing a top 5 most difficult schedule that did better than the 2023 Seahawks with Geno under center and I'll bow to your superior football knowledge and join you in trying to run the dude out of town.

Or you know, you can go back to posting passive aggressive snipes like a middle schooler. You know, whichever.

He wasn’t too 5 thought. Hugh broke it down about a year ago. His stats were top 5 for about 5-6 games, then fell off dramatically.

If he was half as good as some here think, we could trade him for a program changing haul of picks. But no one besides a small percentage of Seahawks fans, even think he is an average starter in the nfl.

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