The myth of poor protection and the dominant Rams D

[keasley45]

I did a breakdown of Bradford's play on the INTs in this game elsewhere, and the TLDR is that he performed admirably, and it was clear that the weak point in pass-pro was Olu.

1st interception, he absolutely pancaked Ford, freeing Lucas to focus on Young. Davis simply drove Olu into Sam's lap. It looks like Benton had Bradford focus on helping out Olu after this play.

2nd interception, Bradford and Lucas had Fiske completely bottled up. Charbs inexplicably jumps in to help out, leaving Young, on his stunt, with a free lane to Darnold. Charbs should have picked that up, or at least gone laterally for a check down.

3rd interception, Bradford has no one to block at the snap, so he chips in to help Olu, who is being driven back by Fiske. He knocks Fiske to the ground, and maintains his position, keeping a clean pocket on the right side.

4th interception was a masterclass in the Rams taking advantage of what our offensive line was doing, in over pursuing. The pressure appears to be coming from the left side, so the offensive line focuses there, only to get swept into a bunch, opening a lane on the right.

Bradford goes to help Olu, and Verse seals Bradford out of the actual rushing lane. The intent of all this was to leave a wide open lane on the right side for Ford to stunt through. Lucas might should have picked that up.

This is the play where you see Bradford looking back to see what Sam is doing, and whether to keep pass blocking, or turn upfield for a scramble. It was the right thing to do, though many are saying he didn't know what he was doing, and was blocking Zabel. In fact, Zabel is in the wrong here. The pass rush is already well behind Zabel, and he is still focused on blocking absolutely nobody downfield. If he simply looks behind him, he and Bradford could have opened a nice rushing lane for Sam.

Gotta say, there was 3.53 seconds between snap and Sam releasing the ball on that 1st interception. He hits the top of his drop at 2.22 seconds. There was almost a second and a half to decide where to go with the ball, or to decide to pull it down and run, or break the pocket. Olu is getting pushed back, but its not a s though he is in his lap at the top of his drop. He is pushed back to where Sam remains immobile after about 3 seconds. If, as a qb, you are standing in the pocket with 2.5 seconds having ticked by (and he was) and are just at that point being made to move, thats enough protection to make a play. It may not be THE play the QB wants to make, but part of the QB's job is to understand pressure and know where to go with the ball if you dont have great protection. And at the top of his drop, he had Walker turned toward him looking for him if he needed him.

Sam even had time to bounce on his toes twice before fading left.

 

[NoGain]

Stafford was absolutely a good QB before he got to the Rams.

I'm with you on this. He was a very good QB playing for a misfit franchise. One of the best kept secrets in the NFL. When they won, it was largely because of him. There was a reason why the Rams went after him. The biggest knock on Stafford was that he was too acquiescent, that he should have demanded his way out of there sooner.

 

[Trackhawk]

Gotta say, there was 3.53 seconds between snap and Sam releasing the ball on that 1st interception. He hits the top of his drop at 2.22 seconds. There was almost a second and a half to decide where to go with the ball, or to decide to pull it down and run, or break the pocket. Olu is getting pushed back, but its not a s though he is in his lap at the top of his drop. He is pushed back to where Sam remains immobile after about 3 seconds. If, as a qb, you are standing in the pocket with 2.5 seconds having ticked by (and he was) and are just at that point being made to move, thats enough protection to make a play. It may not be THE play the QB wants to make, but part of the QB's job is to understand pressure and know where to go with the ball if you dont have great protection. And at the top of his drop, he had Walker turned toward him looking for him if he needed him.

Sam even had time to bounce on his toes twice before fading left.

Absolutely. In fact the point of my post, on the other platform, was pointing out that the interceptions were not on th offensive line, and I was specifically defending Bradford against BS claims that he was responsible.

I should have made that more clear.

Olu was the weak link, but still provided enough protection that a QB of Darnold’s caliber, should be able to work inside it.

 

[hox]

Hox, he was flatfooted standing behind Olu because he stopped reading the play, locked in on Kupp and had predetermined to launch the ball from where he did. Thats like going into a movie theater with one person sitting in it, sitting behind him and then complaining that you cant see the screen. It is absolutely the job of the qb to not just select a platform and launch. He never looked to Walker. He never looked to JSN. And that is worse than the decision he made for where to throw the ball. The corner was beat by JSN, obviously and immediately. If you are defending him there, then why on gods green earth did he throw it to him on the pick when he was never open on an out in zone coverage, or on the other play where Sam had time and missed 3 other reads to throw to JSN completely covered. Thats why i included the other plays because its not JUST the INTS that he missed on.

As to the pressure stat, nobody said he wasnt pressured, i agree. He was, but the line didnt fail him or cause him to throw those picks. Poor decision making did. The tape shows a QB who often isnt good at FEELING the pressure and he had opportunities to beat it because Kubiak gave them to him and he missed them. The pressure number could have been what it was AND he could have not thrown the INTs. One didnt mean the other had to happen and the tape shows it. There were plays where he beat the pressure successfully or just tossed the ball away. Those were also part of the 70%. But the problem is the moments he brain farts and thats what the tape captures. AND, like with Russ who was perennially 'the most pressure QB in the NFL, pressure is tallied as a play where a defender effects the QB's natural intention to throw. Well, as with the first INT, if the QB runs behind a block and then just stands there, flat footed and tosses it up off of his back foot when he has 20 yards of green to his right, thats a pressure that gets counted but not one that should have effected the outcome. And pressure is also then counted as when a qb has to step left, right, or up into the pocket to throw. That happens ALL the time. Its not a reason to throw an INT.

Pick No4 is a reasonable pocket by NFL standards. if the expectation is that Sam will fail when he gets that level of push, we may as well call it a season and look for our next QB not named Milroe or Luck

The way he played yesterday was similar to what we have seen in other games. The houston game where he rolled into pressure in the endzone right into where the pressure was coming from is a great example. Or, in the the int to JSN in this game where there was nothing tell him to stand in the pocket and HAVE to wait for JSN to be able to turn around and see the ball coming on a rushed throw... against zone coverage when the FIRST thing he should have done was see the stunt and bail right. Really good QBs do this all the time. He just stood there and decided to throw, because as in his first three picks, he didnt consider anyone else on the play. Kupp - he ignored Walker. If the pressure was there so quickly, he should have hit the outlet, or if he had looked right, he would have seen that his locking in on Kupp moved the Safety and JSN was open for the big play. Sam has thrown to JSN in tighter situations than what he had on that play.

Arroyo INT ? He went straight to him and never considered anyone else. He looks left to try to move a guy in man and THAT was his mistake. The LB didn't move and Sam didn't adjust. He just threw it anyway because that's the only place he was going.


And i dont see how this is even debatable. He has 30 TOs in 28 games and has shown a propensity to make bad reads throughout his career.

Your position seems to be Sam should be perfect despite the pressures. That's a high standard I'm not sure even Mahomes or Allen could meet (although these QBs do use their legs often to evade pressure).

My position is simply that the pressure WAS there, and it negatively impacted him.

Even if the Kupp throw was predetermined, had Olu not been in his lap, he could have stepped up in the pocket and made the throw.

Even if the Arroyo throw was predetermined, maybe he was intent on getting it out quick due to being blasted earlier in the game. Plus Arroyo ran the wrong route?

Pressure lingers. It's not just on a play-by-play basis. When you get blasted, the clock speeds up in your head. That's basically what a "ghost" is.

And sometimes there is not enough time to go through all 3-4 reads while under pressure. You take the first read or second read, or none at all.

Rewind back to the Commanders game where there was no pressure, and Sam was nearly perfect, while being able to go through 1-4 reads. He didn't have that same luxury in this game.

You bring up the Houston game - Will Anderson is pretty good. That was a horrible call by Kubiak to even put him in that situation. There was no room to even throw the ball away. A safety would have been the best result of that play call. I don't really put that on Sam.

Expecting Sam to be better under pressure is reasonable. He's going to have to be better for this team to go far.

You have to also consider that Sam a timing / rhythm type QB and not a backyard / scramble drill type. Pressure does throw him off his game. It's more a question of how to mitigate that pressure.

And if you can't, then he has to trust his defense and live to fight another day.

 

[Sperrydogg]

His 2nd. His first was a hook route to JSN on the right middle.

I felt like the offense was impatient to start off then got in a hole

 

[hox]

And by the way, Hass also thought the protections and pressures were an issue:

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Seahawks Rival Calls Out 'Flinching' Sam Darnold

Seattle Seahawks quarterback Sam Darnold has been called out for "flinching" by Los Angeles Rams safety Kamren Kinchens.

heavy.com

I know..... It's heavy.com. But Flinching about sums it up.

 

[Sperrydogg]

I like the title of this thread. Such an opposite narrative from the days of Geno. But it’s true. Our line is.. er… was really good up until Zabel went down. Sam needs to calm down. This offense can be very quick striking but it damn sure doesn’t need to be in a hurry. Especially when the pressure is on. Our defense is not really beatable. So there is no excuse for the mistakes that happened cause of the pressure. Two weeks in a row we gave the ball right back to a team after making a goal line stand and both times we almost stopped them the second time both on 4th down. Sam should be so relaxed cause he can literally throw 4 picks and still win the game against one of the very best teams in the league. Just one pick Sam maybe two and we’ll be alright… good vibes

 

[Fresno Hawk]

After watching this game, I have to agree with alot of comments on here. But I do believe the pressure from the interior line was definitely a problem. Zabel,Olu,and Bradford i thought really struggled. Not only that, I felt like Kubiak didnt do the oline or Sam any favors. Sometimes I think Klint over thinks plays and it screws things up. He almost seems impatient with his play calling at times. I didn't think he had a great day calling plays. This combo was not good. But in the end, Sam should have taken a sack on at least 2 of the 4 ints he threw.

 

[Sperrydogg]

Your position seems to be Sam should be perfect despite the pressures. That's a high standard I'm not sure even Mahomes or Allen could meet (although these QBs do use their legs often to evade pressure).

My position is simply that the pressure WAS there, and it negatively impacted him.

Even if the Kupp throw was predetermined, had Olu not been in his lap, he could have stepped up in the pocket and made the throw.

Even if the Arroyo throw was predetermined, maybe he was intent on getting it out quick due to being blasted earlier in the game. Plus Arroyo ran the wrong route?

Pressure lingers. It's not just on a play-by-play basis. When you get blasted, the clock speeds up in your head. That's basically what a "ghost" is.

And sometimes there is not enough time to go through all 3-4 reads while under pressure. You take the first read or second read, or none at all.

Rewind back to the Commanders game where there was no pressure, and Sam was nearly perfect, while being able to go through 1-4 reads. He didn't have that same luxury in this game.

You bring up the Houston game - Will Anderson is pretty good. That was a horrible call by Kubiak to even put him in that situation. There was no room to even throw the ball away. A safety would have been the best result of that play call. I don't really put that on Sam.

Expecting Sam to be better under pressure is reasonable. He's going to have to be better for this team to go far.

You have to also consider that Sam a timing / rhythm type QB and not a backyard / scramble drill type. Pressure does throw him off his game. It's more a question of how to mitigate that pressure.

And if you can't, then he has to trust his defense and live to fight another day.

Man I like everything you say except about Sam not being a backyard scramble guy. I think he throws pretty good on the run and he can extend the play when he rolls out. I almost wish he was on the move more. Maybe being on the move is not quite the same as scrambling under pressure, but I think when he’s on the move he gets even less locked in on one target.

 

[Sperrydogg]

Your position seems to be Sam should be perfect despite the pressures. That's a high standard I'm not sure even Mahomes or Allen could meet (although these QBs do use their legs often to evade pressure).

My position is simply that the pressure WAS there, and it negatively impacted him.

Even if the Kupp throw was predetermined, had Olu not been in his lap, he could have stepped up in the pocket and made the throw.

Even if the Arroyo throw was predetermined, maybe he was intent on getting it out quick due to being blasted earlier in the game. Plus Arroyo ran the wrong route?

Pressure lingers. It's not just on a play-by-play basis. When you get blasted, the clock speeds up in your head. That's basically what a "ghost" is.

And sometimes there is not enough time to go through all 3-4 reads while under pressure. You take the first read or second read, or none at all.

Rewind back to the Commanders game where there was no pressure, and Sam was nearly perfect, while being able to go through 1-4 reads. He didn't have that same luxury in this game.

You bring up the Houston game - Will Anderson is pretty good. That was a horrible call by Kubiak to even put him in that situation. There was no room to even throw the ball away. A safety would have been the best result of that play call. I don't really put that on Sam.

Expecting Sam to be better under pressure is reasonable. He's going to have to be better for this team to go far.

You have to also consider that Sam a timing / rhythm type QB and not a backyard / scramble drill type. Pressure does throw him off his game. It's more a question of how to mitigate that pressure.

And if you can't, then he has to trust his defense and live to fight another day.

I don’t know if keasley is demanding perfect even in the pressure, but asking for a few less picks is not asking too much hahaha

 

[Dolomight12]

Propers due @keasley45 .I really appreciate posters who take the time and care to make these types of posts!

 

[Dolomight12]

After watching this game, I have to agree with alot of comments on here. But I do believe the pressure from the interior line was definitely a problem. Zabel,Olu,and Bradford i thought really struggled. Not only that, I felt like Kubiak didnt do the oline or Sam any favors. Sometimes I think Klint over thinks plays and it screws things up. He almost seems impatient with his play calling at times. I didn't think he had a great day calling plays. This combo was not good. But in the end, Sam should have taken a sack on at least 2 of the 4 ints he threw.

Right there with you in regards to KLINT. He leaves a lot to be desired in in game /situational play calling IMHO.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Well said, Keas. As frustrating as this loss is, they still had a shot even after 4 turnovers. Moved the ball fine much of the day. Just flat out can't throw 4 picks, giving short fields, etc. We'll get em in round 2 next month.

 

[keasley45]

Your position seems to be Sam should be perfect despite the pressures. That's a high standard I'm not sure even Mahomes or Allen could meet (although these QBs do use their legs often to evade pressure).

My position is simply that the pressure WAS there, and it negatively impacted him.

Even if the Kupp throw was predetermined, had Olu not been in his lap, he could have stepped up in the pocket and made the throw.

Even if the Arroyo throw was predetermined, maybe he was intent on getting it out quick due to being blasted earlier in the game. Plus Arroyo ran the wrong route?

Pressure lingers. It's not just on a play-by-play basis. When you get blasted, the clock speeds up in your head. That's basically what a "ghost" is.

And sometimes there is not enough time to go through all 3-4 reads while under pressure. You take the first read or second read, or none at all.

Rewind back to the Commanders game where there was no pressure, and Sam was nearly perfect, while being able to go through 1-4 reads. He didn't have that same luxury in this game.

You bring up the Houston game - Will Anderson is pretty good. That was a horrible call by Kubiak to even put him in that situation. There was no room to even throw the ball away. A safety would have been the best result of that play call. I don't really put that on Sam.

Expecting Sam to be better under pressure is reasonable. He's going to have to be better for this team to go far.

You have to also consider that Sam a timing / rhythm type QB and not a backyard / scramble drill type. Pressure does throw him off his game. It's more a question of how to mitigate that pressure.

And if you can't, then he has to trust his defense and live to fight another day.

Not perfect. I don't know what else to say. I show 4 plays where it's obvious the dude locked in on his target and made a poor throw because he flat ignored his other wr's and where pressure was coming from. No one is saying there wasnt pressure. Sam did ok in a high pressure situation a good bit of the time. Thats the part that i think maybe you dont understand about what i am saying. Stafford was also pressured and didnt do what Sam did. Because in some games you will see pressure. If Sam's stat line was Stafford's and we kiked only FGs and won, that would be 100% acceptable. The question isnt one of whether he was pressured. The question is what you do with it. On the first INT, ONE in five lineman lost leverage and got pushed back. The QB with 180 degrees of field to his left and right, NO pressure coming from anywhere else, a clean drop to read the field, time to stand there for ,.5 seconds at the top of his drop and 3.5 seconds to do something with the ball is absolved of fault because ONE lineman was arguably beat?? Sam could have gotten rid of the ball to 2 other receivers and had he read JSN's coverage, looked the safety toward Kupp (which ironically he did anyway) He could have flushed left and bought himself more time. Anyone who looks at that play objectively sees that Sam decided immediately where he wanted to go with the ball. he never doubted it, and he was wrong. He locked on so completely and for so long (contradicts immediate pressure) that it was the safety over the top of JSN who had time to cross the entire field (he starts on the numbers on the right side of the field and makes the INT on the numbers on the left side of the field). If a DB has time to see the qb's eyes and then run across the entire field to make an INT, the QB had a LOT of time to make his decision.

Will say it again

1st INT

3.5 seconds is a lot of time.
1 in 5 lineman was pushed back and even he ended up pancaking the dlineman
Sam had free area to flush left or right, there was no one there.
If the pressure was too hot, he had an outlet in front of him in Walker
He had JSN open by virtue in part of the fact he looked the safety to Kupp. Had he looked right, JSN had his guy beat. He has thrown to JSN in tighter windows

It wasnt bang bang. It was sufficient time. It wasnt pressure that screwed up the play. We lost on that play because Sam waited so long to throw the ball that the Safety on the other side of the field had time to cross the field and make the play.

the INT to Arroyo.

Again, objectively it was just a poor decision, pressure aside. He looks left and then just decides to go right to a double covered Arroyo. Why? because he thought the LB was in pure zone and he wasnt. When Arroyo entered his space, he ran with him. THAT is why the INT happened, not because of pressure. At the end of the play, Sam is standing flat footed in the pocket. He wasn't even hit. Like the first INT, he had Walker as an outlet, he had Shaheed open on what should have been an easy first read because of how far off the DB was playing, and the LB that ended up being the one to fool him, would have lost on the play entirely if Sam reads it correctly and hits either Walker or Barner.

There was pressure, but the error was in processing.

The other two? Ok, The throw to JSN that was picked that Sam was crushed on - i am fine outing it on Charbonet. He should have picked up the free rusher. Sam could have decided to flush right where he had great protection and a RB to hit in a wide open flat. but fine. for the sake of argument, it was immediate, unchecked pressure.

The last INT i never questioned. That kind of thing can happen, but it still would have been better even for him to have the awareness to just take the sack rather than throw the ball to a receiver that had a defender right in front of him.

None of what i am sayin SHOULD have happened requires perfect play because even with the missed opportuities on those plays, if Sam just curls into a ball and goes to the ground, we win. He didnt NEED to make something of those plays if his ability prevented it. He could have just given up. THAT would have been the 'perfectly' ok.

But our line was absolutely and unequivocally NOT the cause of all of those INTs. They all SHOULD have been avoided, whether by sack or just making the right read. And if we cant expect Sam to make those plays, we all need to just lower our expectations a lot and stop fooling ourselves. If he cant make those plays or just not DESTROY our chances of winning a game like that, we dont have a franchise QB and we need to just make plans to find someone immediately, because i can guarantee you that the opposing teams who will make the final 4 at the end of the year will all likely have QBs who dont error the same way.

 

[Palmegranite]

Stafford was absolutely a good QB before he got to the Rams.

And he comes with a Teflon coating.

One and done in all of his (3) playoff appearances pre-Rams, including a sound beat-down at the hands of the Russell Wilson-era Seahawks.

But winning a Superbowl goes a long way to erasing those previous playoff early exits.

So there's that...

 

[keasley45]

I felt like the offense was impatient to start off then got in a hole

i think it was more a case of Sam being impatient. there was no need to throw the ball to Kupp on his first pick. Just as there was no need to throw it to Arroyo or to JSN on two of the other three. Nor was there anything in the read of those plays that said he should do so... necessarily.

However...

I think what the Rams know about Sam and that other teams will begin to replicate, is that he is VERY reliant on the design of a given play and if he sees something that tells him off the bat that it will work, unless he has 5 seconds to reconsider, he may just lock on and toss one to you. And i understand why - he grew up in failed systms that stunted his maturation as a player and resulted in poor habits. Over the last two years, he has been in superior systems that do a good bit of the work for him (which they should). But he has become a bit too reliant on the play design doing the work for him, on working through the fundamental requirements of his position and not yet fully comprehending how the results of his actions should dictate what he does next.

Take the Arroyo INT. When he starts the play and looks left to diagnose coverage on that side of the field, he should be doing so to legitimately see if thats where he should go with the ball AND if he knows he wants to go to Arroyo, to see if that action moves the LB to the left or if he stays in place. If that LB doesnt move, he SHOULD consider another read, especially if there is pressure. He should ONLY throw to Arroyo if he gets by the LB (or if the LB moves left following his eyes) and has open field in front of him on his seam route. In this case, The LB doesnt move (Tell 1 in the read), he turns and runs with Arroyo in perfect coverage (Tell 2 in the read), and there is a Safety over Arroyo in the pattern (Tell 3 in the read). And despite all of those things telling Sam quite clearly he SHOULDNT throw there, he did anyway. He took the entirety of his time in the pocket to stare down Arroyo and throw the ball despite nothing telling him to do so.

If pressure was too fast, literally the thing to do is go away from that route because it takes too long to develop. Pressure only gets worse the longer you are waiting for a play to develop (i Hope Russ is reading this) and Kubiak gave Sam an out and a faster read.

The exact same thing can be said of the first INT except here, the coverage read on Kupp said throwing there was the correct INITIAL read. IF pressure is getting to him, he shouldnt simply stand static in place and wait for the play to develop. He should either take the outlet or scramble to buy himself time. That isnt a difficult, high level thing to do. It doesnt require 'PERFECT' play response, just fundamental reaction. And on that play, if Sam was REALLY understanding in its entirety what the DBs responses meant, he would have seen that the Safety over JSN abandoned his responsibility in coverage and left JSN open on the deep route. Instead, Sam took 3.5 seconds to do only one thing - stare down Kupp. He didnt consider that the the Safety would have time to come all the way across the field to pick of his ball nor did he see him doing so apparently.

These are just two terrible plays by the QB and have nothing to do with pressure forcing a bad decision. And i think they are indicative of a player trusting his first read too much when his clock gets interrupted and just letting it rip. Its like Sam requires 3.5 seconds on a play to avoid mistakes. Before SUnday, the line has given him an inordinate amount of time to go through his reads and allow plays to develop, hence his league leading YPC. The two things go hand in hand. But the criticism of Sam before he hot here was that he was less adept at the quick pass, quick decision game and i think that is 100% what we saw Sunday - A qb EXPECTING to have the time he needs to do what HE wants and not taking what the play says he should do.

INT to Kupp, he had 3.5 seconds and it still wasnt enough to get the pass he wanted off from where he chose to throw but did it anyway. But the shortened time to throw didnt prompt him to look elsewhere, he did what he wanted.

INT to JSN - he was pressured right away, rushing the throw but that didnt change his process, he wanted to go to JSN and did so regarldess of what was happening.

INT to Arroyo - he had ample time to read the play and make a better decision, but he inexplicably threw to the guy requiring the most protection and was 100% covered from the beginning to end - ie Arroyo shouldnt have been the read after about .5 seconds into his drop.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

He was pressing, trying to do way too much. Sometimes you gotta just know when to throw it away or take a sack

 

[hox]

Not perfect. I don't know what else to say. I show 4 plays where it's obvious the dude locked in on his target and made a poor throw because he flat ignored his other wr's and where pressure was coming from. No one is saying there wasnt pressure. Sam did ok in a high pressure situation a good bit of the time. Thats the part that i think maybe you dont understand about what i am saying. Stafford was also pressured and didnt do what Sam did. Because in some games you will see pressure. If Sam's stat line was Stafford's and we kiked only FGs and won, that would be 100% acceptable. The question isnt one of whether he was pressured. The question is what you do with it. On the first INT, ONE in five lineman lost leverage and got pushed back. The QB with 180 degrees of field to his left and right, NO pressure coming from anywhere else, a clean drop to read the field, time to stand there for ,.5 seconds at the top of his drop and 3.5 seconds to do something with the ball is absolved of fault because ONE lineman was arguably beat?? Sam could have gotten rid of the ball to 2 other receivers and had he read JSN's coverage, looked the safety toward Kupp (which ironically he did anyway) He could have flushed left and bought himself more time. Anyone who looks at that play objectively sees that Sam decided immediately where he wanted to go with the ball. he never doubted it, and he was wrong. He locked on so completely and for so long (contradicts immediate pressure) that it was the safety over the top of JSN who had time to cross the entire field (he starts on the numbers on the right side of the field and makes the INT on the numbers on the left side of the field). If a DB has time to see the qb's eyes and then run across the entire field to make an INT, the QB had a LOT of time to make his decision.

Will say it again

1st INT

3.5 seconds is a lot of time.
1 in 5 lineman was pushed back and even he ended up pancaking the dlineman
Sam had free area to flush left or right, there was no one there.
If the pressure was too hot, he had an outlet in front of him in Walker
He had JSN open by virtue in part of the fact he looked the safety to Kupp. Had he looked right, JSN had his guy beat. He has thrown to JSN in tighter windows

It wasnt bang bang. It was sufficient time. It wasnt pressure that screwed up the play. We lost on that play because Sam waited so long to throw the ball that the Safety on the other side of the field had time to cross the field and make the play.

the INT to Arroyo.

Again, objectively it was just a poor decision, pressure aside. He looks left and then just decides to go right to a double covered Arroyo. Why? because he thought the LB was in pure zone and he wasnt. When Arroyo entered his space, he ran with him. THAT is why the INT happened, not because of pressure. At the end of the play, Sam is standing flat footed in the pocket. He wasn't even hit. Like the first INT, he had Walker as an outlet, he had Shaheed open on what should have been an easy first read because of how far off the DB was playing, and the LB that ended up being the one to fool him, would have lost on the play entirely if Sam reads it correctly and hits either Walker or Barner.

There was pressure, but the error was in processing.

The other two? Ok, The throw to JSN that was picked that Sam was crushed on - i am fine outing it on Charbonet. He should have picked up the free rusher. Sam could have decided to flush right where he had great protection and a RB to hit in a wide open flat. but fine. for the sake of argument, it was immediate, unchecked pressure.

The last INT i never questioned. That kind of thing can happen, but it still would have been better even for him to have the awareness to just take the sack rather than throw the ball to a receiver that had a defender right in front of him.

None of what i am sayin SHOULD have happened requires perfect play because even with the missed opportuities on those plays, if Sam just curls into a ball and goes to the ground, we win. He didnt NEED to make something of those plays if his ability prevented it. He could have just given up. THAT would have been the 'perfectly' ok.

But our line was absolutely and unequivocally NOT the cause of all of those INTs. They all SHOULD have been avoided, whether by sack or just making the right read. And if we cant expect Sam to make those plays, we all need to just lower our expectations a lot and stop fooling ourselves. If he cant make those plays or just not DESTROY our chances of winning a game like that, we dont have a franchise QB and we need to just make plans to find someone immediately, because i can guarantee you that the opposing teams who will make the final 4 at the end of the year will all likely have QBs who dont error the same way.

Let's put it like this - whether the pressure he felt was a direct result of pass pro or not (and in some cases it was, not all but some, we can agree to disagree), it was real for Sam Darnold (hence ghosts).

The talk over on the Rams side, was that they knew they sacked him 9 times in that last match up. This is why DBs were sitting on routes like on the JSN pick because they knew he would try to get rid of it quick. Or in other words "force" the ball to a predetermined receiver. He wasn't trying to go through all 1-4 reads to find the open guy, with those 9 sacks in the back of his mind. The pressure was real for Sam.

This was deliberately in Shula's game plan and it worked. Not everything was self-inflicted.

Expectations definitely are lowered until he can get that monkey off his back. I still have faith that he will.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Side note, what the HAWKS defense did to the Rams offense was pretty damn impressive. Not pulling out the moral victory card at all. But...sometimes you just give away a game you should absolutely win.