Geno Smith the headcase

[Ozzy]

Fix the run game and make the O-line not hot garbage. Likely were having a different conversation. Geno's ceiling will always be hovering around the top 10-12 QB's.

Exactly where I put him.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Well, Mahomes for sure. As for the rest=
Lamar - Not the best passer, but working on his 3rd MVP
Burrow
Allen
Stroud - bit early, but he's on the path
Daniels - way to early, but the guy has a cannon and is a helluva player

Maybe's - I can't decide if these two are great or not
Goff
Love

Would Goff be better than Geno on this team?

 

[Sperrydogg]

Would Goff be better than Geno on this team?

I don’t trust Goff to win on his own either. He makes mistakes under pressure too

 

[OrangeGravy]

IMO, Geno is a modern day Dave Krieg. When he is on, he looks as good as anyone in the league. But he's too inconsistent to be mentioned with the top guys. I know, I know: the O line. Another factor that adds to the complexity of the Geno debate. Hopefully Abe stays healthy and the line continues to show improvement. Then we should have our answer once and for all.

Who is he more inconsistent than?

 

[pittpnthrs]

Would Goff be better than Geno on this team?

That's a great question. I honestly don't know.

 

[Ozzy]

That's a great question. I honestly don't know.

Goff has the same mental mistake issue Geno has but I think he processes stuff a little faster and is just better. It’s hard to say his superior stats are solely because of his supporting cast. I think he’s a little better than Geno

 

[Spin Doctor]

Goff has the same mental mistake issue Geno has but I think he processes stuff a little faster and is just better. It’s hard to say his superior stats are solely because of his supporting cast. I think he’s a little better than Geno

It is hard to say, Goff has had two of the most brilliant, young offensive minds in football coaching him. In LA I know that McVay essentially did all of the thinking for him. He called out the coverages and reads over the headset. The NFL caught on and changed the coverages after the headsets cut off. Goff was basically in autopilot mode on the Rams.

Now, in Detroit, the Goff we know today coincided with Ben Johnson being promoted to OC. He wasn't setting the league on fire until 2022, before then he was just alright. His PFF, TD's, bulk stats all shot up immediately.

Is Ben Johnson just a QB whisperer or is he just a really good OC in the vein of McVay when he was setting the world on fire? Johnson does seem to have really good instincts as an OC. Everytime I watch him I come away impressed. He's definitely one of the hottest names in football right now.

 

[keasley45]

Now we're arguing Geno has bad weapons at the skill positions when his #3 receiver might be the most reliable #3 in the league, We have the first running back taken in his draft class and a special talent in Walker and DK/JSN are monsters. Add to that that almost none of his interceptions are his fault lol. I'm out on this one now.

Seattle's stable of 'weapons' have been top 5 in drops the last 2 years.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Seattle's stable of 'weapons' have been top 5 in drops the last 2 years.

There have been some great wide receiver corps that have had issues with drops... In fact Puka Nacua lead the league in drops, as did Tyreek Hill in 2023. That doesn't say anything about how good they are at getting open or their playmaking abilities.

Also, in 2023 the Seahawks were not even top 5. The Seahawks were 9th in overall dropped passes -- they were not even top 5 in percentage of dropped passes. Also, if you notice dropped passes and offense potency isn't necessarily correlated https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...rick-mahomes-offense/c3e1b49eda06be12f2da28d5. (dropped passes stats near the bottom of the page).

The 3rd, 4th, 7th, 9th and 5th top rated offenses were all in the top 10 dropped passes stats. Hell, if we're just going by percentage of balls dropped, the Ravens would also be in there. Some of these teams were specifically known for having potent receiving corps.

The Seahawks have had one of the better receiving corps in the NFL.

 

[pittpnthrs]

It is hard to say, Goff has had two of the most brilliant, young offensive minds in football coaching him. In LA I know that McVay essentially did all of the thinking for him. He called out the coverages and reads over the headset. The NFL caught on and changed the coverages after the headsets cut off. Goff was basically in autopilot mode on the Rams.

Now, in Detroit, the Goff we know today coincided with Ben Johnson being promoted to OC. He wasn't setting the league on fire until 2022, before then he was just alright. His PFF, TD's, bulk stats all shot up immediately.

Is Ben Johnson just a QB whisperer or is he just a really good OC in the vein of McVay when he was setting the world on fire? Johnson does seem to have really good instincts as an OC. Everytime I watch him I come away impressed. He's definitely one of the hottest names in football right now.

This is where i'm at. I don't know what to think of Goff. I've always thought of him as a 'decent, just alright' QB, but the guys a baller. He confuses me. Not sure if I underrate him or overrate him. Lol

 

[Ozzy]

There have been some great wide receiver corps that have had issues with drops... In fact Puka Nacua lead the league in drops, as did Tyreek Hill in 2023. That doesn't say anything about how good they are at getting open or their playmaking abilities.

Also, in 2023 the Seahawks were not even top 5. The Seahawks were 9th in overall dropped passes -- they were not even top 5 in percentage of dropped passes. Also, if you notice dropped passes and offense potency isn't necessarily correlated https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...rick-mahomes-offense/c3e1b49eda06be12f2da28d5. (dropped passes stats near the bottom of the page).

The 3rd, 4th, 7th, 9th and 5th top rated offenses were all in the top 10 dropped passes stats. Hell, if we're just going by percentage of balls dropped, the Ravens would also be in there. Some of these teams were specifically known for having potent receiving corps.

The Seahawks have had one of the better receiving corps in the NFL.

well said. Their trio of DK, an emerging JSN and a reliable guy like Lockett as your #3 is one of the best in the entire league

 

[keasley45]

It is hard to say, Goff has had two of the most brilliant, young offensive minds in football coaching him. In LA I know that McVay essentially did all of the thinking for him. He called out the coverages and reads over the headset. The NFL caught on and changed the coverages after the headsets cut off. Goff was basically in autopilot mode on the Rams.

Now, in Detroit, the Goff we know today coincided with Ben Johnson being promoted to OC. He wasn't setting the league on fire until 2022, before then he was just alright. His PFF, TD's, bulk stats all shot up immediately.

Is Ben Johnson just a QB whisperer or is he just a really good OC in the vein of McVay when he was setting the world on fire? Johnson does seem to have really good instincts as an OC. Everytime I watch him I come away impressed. He's definitely one of the hottest names in football right now.

Its hard to say how good Goff is relative to Geno because the dude has a top flight OC and the current number 1 ranked o-line along with the 13th ranked defense and 3rd ranked run game.

And Flacco and Cousins are more pressured and putting up better numbers. Is Flacco top 5 now guys? Cousins too? Keasely you argued Seattle's weapons aren't good, are they better than Flacco's weapons? This isn't directed at you Sperry but to the guys making the argument that having Geno 10th or lower is an insult.

The debate isnt about how good Flacco or Cousins are. Flacco has a limited sample size and Cousins has been a top QB in the league for a while. And if someone were arguing that Cousins was the 18th best QB in the league, I'd push back as hard as I am for Geno.

And again. You are intent on arguing a point i have never tried to make. Did i say Geno was top 5? Can Cousins play at a top 5 level. Absolutely. Flacco? maybe for a few games.

You keep on wrapping one argument into another and pushing back on points i havent made.

Its funny how one second, our receivers are the best in the league, and the next, there are multipe threads on trading them. Just this month, there was pining for the FO to trade DK. Why? BECAUSE HE DROPS THE BALL TOO MUCH for a 'No 1'. Are we going to pretend he doesnt? There are as many (if not more) discussions about the number of bad route's he runs, his drops, or his inability to make the clutch play as there are those about how 'elite' he is.

Tyler - as clutch as he's been over the years, the only talk I've seen this year (and it started last year) was how it was time to move on because he'd obviously lost a step.

Look, do i love our receivers? Yeah. But lets not pretend they are C Kupp, Nacua, Chase or J Jennings. Or even Diggs, Flowers, or even old man D-Hop.

 

[toffee]

Its hard to say how good Goff is relative to Geno because the dude has a top flight OC and the current number 1 ranked o-line along with the 13th ranked defense and 3rd ranked run game.

The debate isnt about how good Flacco or Cousins are. Flacco has a limited sample size and Cousins has been a top QB in the league for a while. And if someone were arguing that Cousins was the 18th best QB in the league, I'd push back as hard as I am for Geno.

And again. You are intent on arguing a point i have never tried to make. Did i say Geno was top 5? Can Cousins play at a top 5 level. Absolutely. Flacco? maybe for a few games.

You keep on wrapping one argument into another and pushing back on points i havent made.

Its funny how one second, our receivers are the best in the league, and the next, there are multipe threads on trading them. Just this month, there was pining for the FO to trade DK. Why? BECAUSE HE DROPS THE BALL TOO MUCH for a 'No 1'. Are we going to pretend he doesnt? There are as many (if not more) discussions about the number of bad route's he runs, his drops, or his inability to make the clutch play as there are those about how 'elite' he is.

Tyler - as clutch as he's been over the years, the only talk I've seen this year (and it started last year) was how it was time to move on because he'd obviously lost a step.

Look, do i love our receivers? Yeah. But lets not pretend they are C Kupp, Nacua, Chase or J Jennings. Or even Diggs, Flowers, or even old man D-Hop.

You sir are using logic to refute emotion or feelings. Good luck with that!

 

[Ozzy]

Its hard to say how good Goff is relative to Geno because the dude has a top flight OC and the current number 1 ranked o-line along with the 13th ranked defense and 3rd ranked run game.

The debate isnt about how good Flacco or Cousins are. Flacco has a limited sample size and Cousins has been a top QB in the league for a while. And if someone were arguing that Cousins was the 18th best QB in the league, I'd push back as hard as I am for Geno.

And again. You are intent on arguing a point i have never tried to make. Did i say Geno was top 5? Can Cousins play at a top 5 level. Absolutely. Flacco? maybe for a few games.

You keep on wrapping one argument into another and pushing back on points i havent made.

Its funny how one second, our receivers are the best in the league, and the next, there are multipe threads on trading them. Just this month, there was pining for the FO to trade DK. Why? BECAUSE HE DROPS THE BALL TOO MUCH for a 'No 1'. Are we going to pretend he doesnt? There are as many (if not more) discussions about the number of bad route's he runs, his drops, or his inability to make the clutch play as there are those about how 'elite' he is.

Tyler - as clutch as he's been over the years, the only talk I've seen this year (and it started last year) was how it was time to move on because he'd obviously lost a step.

Look, do i love our receivers? Yeah. But lets not pretend they are C Kupp, Nacua, Chase or J Jennings. Or even Diggs, Flowers, or even old man D-Hop.

You’re doing the same thing. Just because someone wants to trade DK it doesn’t mean people think he sucks. They just think they’re better ways to build a roster. You’re conflating a point in an attempt to prove a different one. And when you look in totality Seattles 3 receiver set ranks one of the best in football. Bengals have Chase and Higgins but Giggins can’t stay healthy, Rams have two studs but both have been hurt.

 

[Ozzy]

And if I’m getting your argument wrong apologies, it’s not intentional. There’s a lot of people commenting and when I say 10-15 and it’s met with rebuttals I can only assume someone strongly disagrees(which is fine by the way). If 10 seems crazy I’m going to assume people have him in the 5-10 range or else why would they so strongly disagree with me?

 

[toffee]

And if I’m getting your argument wrong apologies, it’s not intentional. There’s a lot of people commenting and when I say 10-15 and it’s met with rebuttals I can only assume someone strongly disagrees(which is fine by the way). If 10 seems crazy I’m going to assume people have him in the 5-10 range or else why would they so strongly disagree with me?

Geno in the 10-15? There's nothing wrong with that, although some might rated him higher, me included, and most on dot net had him lower.

 

[OrangeGravy]

Goff has the same mental mistake issue Geno has but I think he processes stuff a little faster and is just better. It’s hard to say his superior stats are solely because of his supporting cast. I think he’s a little better than Geno

Goff does not have a reputation for processing things fast or well. There's a reason McVay jettisoned him quickly. He absolutely requires tye strong run game and good o-line to even be functional at all.
You can't function at the level Geno has with those 2 support systems being as dysfunctional as they have over the last 3 seasons without being an upper tier processor at the QB position. You simply can't unless you're Lamar and can run so effectively.
This leads to my main gripe with these types of arguments. Where we think Geno ranks in tye league is obviously pure opinion and irrelevant. The problem comes in when "we", (the collective) we come to these opinions without paying attention to details that aren't so subjective.
Goff just threw 5 picks in a game, with an excellent running game and arguably the best o-line in the league. He's the opposite of mobile. What makes anyone think it's even a question that he'd be worse with us. We have no running game and a bad o-line. You think Goff's performance with us throwing 40+ times a game would look good or even average?

 

[Sperrydogg]

This is where i'm at. I don't know what to think of Goff. I've always thought of him as a 'decent, just alright' QB, but the guys a baller. He confuses me. Not sure if I underrate him or overrate him. Lol

Like geno

 

[Sperrydogg]

Its hard to say how good Goff is relative to Geno because the dude has a top flight OC and the current number 1 ranked o-line along with the 13th ranked defense and 3rd ranked run game.

The debate isnt about how good Flacco or Cousins are. Flacco has a limited sample size and Cousins has been a top QB in the league for a while. And if someone were arguing that Cousins was the 18th best QB in the league, I'd push back as hard as I am for Geno.

And again. You are intent on arguing a point i have never tried to make. Did i say Geno was top 5? Can Cousins play at a top 5 level. Absolutely. Flacco? maybe for a few games.

You keep on wrapping one argument into another and pushing back on points i havent made.

Its funny how one second, our receivers are the best in the league, and the next, there are multipe threads on trading them. Just this month, there was pining for the FO to trade DK. Why? BECAUSE HE DROPS THE BALL TOO MUCH for a 'No 1'. Are we going to pretend he doesnt? There are as many (if not more) discussions about the number of bad route's he runs, his drops, or his inability to make the clutch play as there are those about how 'elite' he is.

Tyler - as clutch as he's been over the years, the only talk I've seen this year (and it started last year) was how it was time to move on because he'd obviously lost a step.

Look, do i love our receivers? Yeah. But lets not pretend they are C Kupp, Nacua, Chase or J Jennings. Or even Diggs, Flowers, or even old man D-Hop.

I would never want cousins cause when the game is on the line he throws picks

 

[keasley45]

You’re doing the same thing. Just because someone wants to trade DK it doesn’t mean people think he sucks. They just think they’re better ways to build a roster. You’re conflating a point in an attempt to prove a different one. And when you look in totality Seattles 3 receiver set ranks one of the best in football. Bengals have Chase and Higgins but Giggins can’t stay healthy, Rams have two studs but both have been hurt.

The negative posts about DK arent only in trade threads. You know it as well as i do.

Do i have to quote the threads? It has been argued many times that he drops the ball too much. Do you think there are similar posts in Detroit about St Brown? Or in Cincy about Chase?

DK has and still is the story of 'what if'. What if he could grow up and grow a pair of real No 1 WR hands. Jesus, even the announcers cslled out DK for constantly catching the ball with his body and not his hands...

You could argue his non catches, and bad routes cost us the 1st 9ers game.

Last year against Cincy early in the season, his lazy routes also resulted in an INT and drive killing play.

Im not saying he sucks. But its funny how you talk about how Geno's mistakes are boneheaded and hiw they come at the worst time, but then ignore the fact that DK has by himself killed the momentum in 3 games we would have won this year.

Detroit. NY. SF (in Seattle). Its not debatable. It happened. Its fact.

And i'm sorry, but when the talk coming out of games is more 'what would have happened had DK come down with both feet in bounds?... what would have happened if DK ran a crisper route... what woukd have happened if DK didnt cough up the ball, that player cant be credited with creating a situation where the QB should be playing better BECAUSE of him.

And before you say ' that the same issue with Geno... what eould have heppenwd IF he didnt throw the pick ...'. Except we know what happened after he threw the picks. Against NY, he led us down for a game winning drive. Against the Rams (like Goff) he overcame multiple TOs (that werent all the mental errors detractors claim them to be) and tied the game and then put us in posotion to win it. Against the 49 ers the first time, he git the ball back and we were in position to score late to take the lead.

Its as simple as this. You can watch the games from a neutral position and analyze what happening and the context in which it happens, regardless of what side of the ball, or which player, or you can watch it with a bias towards anticipating seeing what you THINK is happening based on predisposition around a player, offense, defense or team.

Is funny. K9 has been in the bottom 1/2 of the league since hes been here (statisticaly) He's looked spectacular at times and he has also quite often bounced runs he should hit through the line a bit faster. But no one woukd say that Ken Walker is the 18th best RB in the league because his stats say so. At worst, folks would grade him 'incomplete'. Why? Because its obvious he hasnt been provided the tools around him to succeed. His tackles for loss arent all his fault. His crap YPC games arent all on him. When you see the dude do his thing when thise sround him, supporting him, do theirs, he is one of the best in the league. When those guys dont do their jobs... you get the stats he has had. But he gets a pass (and should) yet HIS job is far less reliant on multiple aspects of the offense running well than the QBs is. Yet the QB on this team isnt given half the benefit the RB is.