Interesting stats for fans down on Geno and/or Russ

[SoulfishHawk]

He was easily one of the best play makers ever. I miss prime Russ.

And one of the best finishers we have ever seen. Period.
I can't believe this sh** is still being argued after all this time. Then again, I can.
Pure gold.

 

[McGruff]

That’s not my narrative at all. But whatever.

My narrative is that he played at an elite level for many many years. We were fortunate to enjoy watching him dazzle fans and befuddle coaches.

But starting in 2020, defenses adapted, and Russell was unable:unwilling to adjust his play style to adapt, and his play diminished significantly enough to where the owner, GM and coach no longer thought he was worth it, and traded him away.

That seems like a fairly reasonable take that fits the facts.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He was efficient and not his usual explosive play self if that's what your getting at. Lost isn't the word.

He was moderately efficient, but the wheels absolutely fell off. He was befuddled by how defenses adjusted and took away his deep ball, and he's simply not a good quarterback when his deep ball is taken away.

Seattle couldn't rush teams out of these looks, either, because he'd throw a bitch fit about having the ball taken out of his hands. That's the real crime.

 

[RiverDog]

I’m not though. People have laughed at the notion that he was even great yet alone elite. Not you but others. I would also argue that even if you disagree, Russ belongs in the conversation. Statistically, wins/losses, toughness, playoff success, leadership etc. I think the vast majority of people around the league and in other cities would absolutely call him great and elite, it feels like it’s only scorned fans who claim otherwise. I mean to say he wasn’t even great? Come on that’s ridiculous.

Again while I disagree with your view I think it’s reasonable. Not everyone in here holds your view though on the negative Wilson side

I haven't read all of the comments in this thread, but I didn't read any that characterized Russell's play for us as "average."

The hang-up for me is how do you're defining the term "elite". To me, it's at least in the top 10% of your class, and if you apply it to starting NFL quarterbacks, 10% of 32 starting QB's means roughly 3 quarterbacks. For most of Russell's career, those 3 QB's were Tom Brady, Drew Brees, and Aaron Rodgers, so in order to elevate Russell into elite status, you're going to have to drop out one of those three QB's.

Russell belongs in a group that includes Ben Rothlisberger, Mathew Stafford, and Matt Ryan, in other words, second tier.

 

[RiverDog]

And one of the best finishers we have ever seen. Period.
I can't believe this sh** is still being argued after all this time. Then again, I can.
Pure gold.

Without a doubt. His ability to extend plays and ad lib was unsurpassed, and I've seen a ton of them, ie Fran Tarkenton, Roger Staubach, Bob Griese, Steve Young.

But those guys all adjusted as Father Time's unstoppable march approached and remained relevant throughout the back nine of their careers. Russell never has. To this day, he still holds onto the ball too God damned long, takes too many sacks, can't or won't utilize the middle of the field.

Russell was the perfect QB for our LOB era team, with a guy like Beast to hand off to. Russell's job was to minimize turnovers, not put the D in bad positions, and score when the opportunity presented itself. In other words, he wasn't called upon to win games so much as he was not to lose them.

 

[pittpnthrs]

He was moderately efficient, but the wheels absolutely fell off. He was befuddled by how defenses adjusted and took away his deep ball, and he's simply not a good quarterback when his deep ball is taken away.

Seattle couldn't rush teams out of these looks, either, because he'd throw a bitch fit about having the ball taken out of his hands. That's the real crime.

Mael, they only lost one game in that entire stretch. And are you really blaming Wilson for the lack of running the ball? That's a tall reach Mael.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

That’s not my narrative at all. But whatever.

My narrative is that he played at an elite level for many many years. We were fortunate to enjoy watching him dazzle fans and befuddle coaches.

But starting in 2020, defenses adapted, and Russell was unable:unwilling to adjust his play style to adapt, and his play diminished significantly enough to where the owner, GM and coach no longer thought he was worth it, and traded him away.

That seems like a fairly reasonable take that fits the facts.

Yeah, that 12-4 record really sucked. But, let me guess....he had nothing to do with it. Dear God.....talk about reaching.

 

[McGruff]

Once again, wins and losses are a TEAM effort.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep. And he was a massive part of those wins. No matter how hard people try to deny it.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Mael, they only lost one game in that entire stretch. And are you really blaming Wilson for the lack of running the ball? That's a tall reach Mael.

Football is a team sport, and you've never had an issue calling every other facet of the organization into question from the top down despite those positive W/L records.

Why, then, is Russell absolved by the same W/L records that you outright disregarded when evaluating Pete, John, and Russell's supporting cast?

I am absolutely blaming Wilson in significant part for the decrease in rushing. This came after 2 top-5 rushing seasons in a row. Russell's teams response was to wage a media campaign with a literal trademark - Let Russ Cook.

According to well-sourced reports, he asked for Carroll and Schneider to be fired and replaced with a notably pass-happy coach, Sean Payton.

We know for a fact that he was not okay with running a rush-heavy offense and that he wanted the offense to flow through the passing game, as it did for the Brady and Manning types.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Absolved? Come on man. He is the most scrutinized player in the history of this franchise.
Also, at some point, isn't it time to just get over it? The dude has been gone over 2 years. Move on at some point. He's in the rear view.

 

[McGruff]

The offense was held to twenty points or less in 4 of those six games. Russell took 18 sacks and through 4 interceptions.

Meanwhile the rushing game averaged about 140 yards a game and the defense held teams to well under 20 points average.

So sure, Wilson played a role, but it was not as significant as you think.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Whatever you need to tell yourself. Do you.

 

[McGruff]

And for the record, we did not win all of those games. We lost two of them, including a first round playoff flop.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Cool. Go Hawks

 

[McGruff]

Whatever you need to tell yourself. Do you.

LOL. Just the facts.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Absolved? Come on man. He is the most scrutinized player in the history of this franchise.
Also, at some point, isn't it time to just get over it? The dude has been gone over 2 years. Move on at some point. He's in the rear view.

1. I'm responding to Pitt, who quite literally is absolving him in his post. I am not talking about anybody else.

2. Discussing something doesn't mean that one is emotionally invested in it. What is there to get over? I WANTED the trade. There is a discussion happening and I am participating. My participation in this discussion has been significantly less than yours, I should add.

3. Your defense of him is sprawling throughout the pages of this topic. I'm sorry, but is it really appropriate to tell everyone else to get over it when you seem to be perhaps the most emotionally invested out of all of us in the thread?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Nah. Just enjoying it. It's funny to me. You should know this by now.
And I wanted him traded as well. Actually, the year before he got traded. Luckily, they still got a haul for him.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Football is a team sport, and you've never had an issue calling every other facet of the organization into question from the top down despite those positive W/L records.

Why, then, is Russell absolved by the same W/L records that you outright disregarded when evaluating Pete, John, and Russell's supporting cast?

I am absolutely blaming Wilson in significant part for the decrease in rushing. This came after 2 top-5 rushing seasons in a row. Russell's teams response was to wage a media campaign with a literal trademark - Let Russ Cook.

According to well-sourced reports, he asked for Carroll and Schneider to be fired and replaced with a notably pass-happy coach, Sean Payton.

We know for a fact that he was not okay with running a rush-heavy offense and that he wanted the offense to flow through the passing game, as it did for the Brady and Manning types.

I'm not absolving anybody for that 6 game stretch in 2020. All i'm saying is that Wilson wasn't the disaster some are claiming he was in that stretch.

So Wilson manipulated Carroll so that he could throw more? Maybe it was all due to wanting to change things up after going nowhere after the 2 top 5 rushing seasons. I don't blame him at all for wanting Carroll and Schneider canned. Guy begged for a decent Oline for years and never got one. He was constantly getting killed and running like a chicken with his head cut off. The final straw was watching Brady in the Super Bowl getting so much time in the pocket that he could have ate lunch back there.

The "Let Russ Cook" campaign started in 2019. The Seahawks were 3rd in the league in rushing attempts that year. In 2020 and 2021 it dropped because Carson, Penny, and Collins missed time due to injuries. Something just doesn't add up with your claims.

 

[pittpnthrs]

The offense was held to twenty points or less in 4 of those six games. Russell took 18 sacks and through 4 interceptions.

Meanwhile the rushing game averaged about 140 yards a game and the defense held teams to well under 20 points average.

So sure, Wilson played a role, but it was not as significant as you think.

Not saying he played lights out. Just saying he wasn't a disaster either. His QB rating was close to 100 in that 7 game stretch.