Canfora reporting Payton wants to move on from ME3

[TheLegendOfBoom]

To be fair, Payton sucks at head coach just as much as Wilson isn’t good enough anymore as well.

 

[bigskydoc]

Wilson is amazing at the splash/ hero ball play. He is awful at making the critical plays to keep drives alive. Look at the drive charts. He has the same tendency to repeatedly go 3 and out. His defenses get gassed.

If his last 4-5 seasons weren't good in your opinion then I'm going to have a hard time with anyone trying to tell me Geno is good now then because Wilson was much better and we had massive problems with the offensive line, a couple of years with a historically bad running game and a defense that was terrible. It was a miracle we were able to get to the playoffs in my opinion a few of those years and it was mostly Wilson and Carroll being great at what they do that lead to that.

But to your first point I do think its a valid and reasonable argument.

Here is Wilsons stats including the last 5 years with Seattle. I would argue that is pretty damn good especially considering the problems we had. This doesn't include rushing stats either. Geno isn't on pace to even come close to any of those years and that's with a MUCH BETTER supporting cast.

View attachment 61540

its amazing how Seattle’s “Trash offensive line” turned itself completely around during the 2022 offseason, and Denver’s vaunted “Your jersey won’t get dirty here Russ” offensive line somehow became just as inept as the lines in Seattle prior to that offseason.

 

[RiverDog]

Wilson is amazing at the splash/ hero ball play. He is awful at making the critical plays to keep drives alive. Look at the drive charts. He has the same tendency to repeatedly go 3 and out. His defenses get gassed.

its amazing how Seattle’s “Trash offensive line” turned itself completely around during the 2022 offseason, and Denver’s vaunted “Your jersey won’t get dirty here Russ” offensive line somehow became just as inept as the lines in Seattle prior to that offseason.

Yeah, Wilson has always had one of the longest time to throw numbers of quarterbacks over 25 years old. It has to be frustrating as all get out for an offensive lineman to have to block for a quarterback like him. It's one of the metrics I thought that he had to improve on if he was to be successful into his 30's.

 

[Ozzy]

Wilson is amazing at the splash/ hero ball play. He is awful at making the critical plays to keep drives alive. Look at the drive charts. He has the same tendency to repeatedly go 3 and out. His defenses get gassed.

its amazing how Seattle’s “Trash offensive line” turned itself completely around during the 2022 offseason, and Denver’s vaunted “Your jersey won’t get dirty here Russ” offensive line somehow became just as inept as the lines in Seattle prior to that offseason.

Well spending a first and a third on the offensive line had nothing to do with it?

 

[strohmin]

Well spending a first and a third on the offensive line had nothing to do with it?

There might be a reason that Pete didnt spend much on the O-line with Wilson at the helm. He might have thought it wasnt worth it for Wilson's style of play. I'm not sure if its true but thats just my thought. I mean Wilson is currently the 3rd most sacked QB in the league right now so he doesnt seem to be doing much better.

 

[bigskydoc]

Well spending a first and a third on the offensive line had nothing to do with it?

This, uh, worst offensive line in the NFL, did it get traded to Denver, along with Russell Wilson's league worst sack and pressure rate?

 

[themunn]

Calling it now - traded to the Niners this offseason for a third.

 

[RiverDog]

There might be a reason that Pete didnt spend much on the O-line with Wilson at the helm. He might have thought it wasnt worth it for Wilson's style of play. I'm not sure if its true but thats just my thought. I mean Wilson is currently the 3rd most sacked QB in the league right now so he doesnt seem to be doing much better.

Pete's always had a lack of appreciation for offensive linemen. I was shocked to see him spend a 1st and a 3rd in the same draft, and it probably happened because he had an excess of picks that year.

Russell's sack rate is directly related to his time to throw number. In addition to his being the 3rd most sacked QB, he's also the 3rd slowest in his delivery. It's not a coincidence.

 

[rcaido]

To be fair, Geno was the 4th most sacked QB last year.

 

[RiverDog]

To be fair, Geno was the 4th most sacked QB last year.

Geno also has a knack for holding onto the ball longer than most QB's. Currently, he's the 8th slowest in time to throw.

 

[Ozzy]

and the difference between the two is Wilson routinely got big plays so there was a trade off. A lot of the mobile quarterbacks are bad in this regard and it makes sense, they can routinely hit an explosive play that a lot of guys around the league can't do. So are there times you wish they did just get rid of it? Sure but you would also be missing out on a lot of the good that brings you as well. I think at this stage of his career Wilson needs to adapt because he doesn't ahve that same skillset although his touchdown to Sutton this past week was exactly that and it was a fantastic play.

 

[Lagartixa]

To be fair, Geno was the 4th most sacked QB last year.

By sacks per dropback, Smith was tied for 12th-worst in the league at 7.4% last season, despite playing behind rookie tackles.

Wilson, despite having gone to a team that, by his own estimation, he "didn't have to carry," and where an offensive lineman told him he wasn't going to get hit anymore, and where everyone agreed he'd be behind a better offensive line than the Seahawks had, was one of just two quarterbacks who managed to get sacked on over 10% of dropbacks last season. What could possibly have happened to the Broncos' previously good offensive line?!

The difference between Wilson's less-bad-only-than-Fields sack percentage last season and Smith's 12th-worst-in-the-league sack percentage was the same as the distance between Smith's and the midpoint between the fourth-best and fifth-best starting QBs in the league at avoiding sacks.

This season, Wilson is once again getting sacked on 10% of his dropbacks, "good" for sixth-worst in the league so far. Smith has the tenth-lowest (tenth-best) sack percentage this season at 5.9%, despite major injury problems on the offensive line. The distance between Wilson's sack percentage and Smith's is close to twice the distance between Smith's and the lowest sack percentage in the league this season.

One can see why the Broncos' head coach, not to mention their offensive linemen, offensive coördinator, and offensive-line coach, would want to consider every possible way of getting rid of the white elephant Wilson now is. So far, it looks like even the most quarterback-desperate teams are too smart to want Wilson, forcing the Broncos to consider how much less bad it will be to eat $85M of dead money for cutting Wilson early in the offseason than it would be to keep him on the roster past mid-March (fifth day of the league year), when they'll be on the hook for another fully guaranteed $37M for a quarterback who isn't producing at even a league-average level, much less anywhere close to the level that would be necessary to justify his cap hits.

If Wilson continues to perform at the same level as he has over the first eight games of this "bounce-back" season (hahahahahaha), he's very likely to be unemployed by St. Patrick's Day.

Let's ride!

 

[Yxes1122]

I checked 2019 redzone conversion & Seattle was ranked 5th best TD percentage,3rd best TDs, & 6th in Redzone attempts He didn't have a very good completion percentage but they still scored on the drive. So the 49.4% is very misleading stat.

2019 was, in my eyes, the very best season of Russ. And the one season where the roster was truly in shambles around him.

Watching an injured Josh McCown outrun Ziggy Ansah was painful. Watching Malik Turner drop a perfect 3rd Down pass from Russ which would’ve sealed the Green Bay game and taken us to the NFCCG, still sticks with me.

As someone that’s watched the Broncos this year and follows their sports media guys, I do think his production this year is a little smoke and mirrors.

But 2018/2019 was true, Elite QB play.

 

[knownone]

The most recent Chiefs game is a microcosm of Wilson's current level of play. The Broncos offense was stagnant and hard to watch. Sean Payton brought Peteball to Denver. Even when the running game is not working, they are running the ball.

Russ threw for 114 yards on 19 attempts. He was sacked on 24% of his pass attempts; PFF credits him for causing 4/6. Yet he still finishes the day with 3 TDs and a passer rating of 119.3. Meanwhile, he had a PFF score of 59.1, worse than Mahomes (64.5), who had 3 turnovers.

 

[keasley45]

The most recent Chiefs game is a microcosm of Wilson's current level of play. The Broncos offense was stagnant and hard to watch. Sean Payton brought Peteball to Denver. Even when the running game is not working, they are running the ball.

Russ threw for 114 yards on 19 attempts. He was sacked on 24% of his pass attempts; PFF credits him for causing 4/6. Yet he still finishes the day with 3 TDs and a passer rating of 119.3. Meanwhile, he had a PFF score of 59.1, worse than Mahomes (64.5), who had 3 turnovers.

This all day, every day. It should be THE standard response to the stat quoters who's only evidence of Russ's eliteness are numbers.

The difference netween Payton and Pete is that Sean has an ego and doesn't want to be associated with an RG3 / Tasom Hill / running ME3 offense. He knows how the qb positions should be played and has devotes his career developing plays and schemes to beat defenses. He's not going to let Russ turn his Ferrari into a Pinto for long, even if it gets a W. It's a waste of his talent as a coach.

But yeah, the 'numbers' like those above from Wilson are what some see as him 'not being the problem or 'improving' over last year.

 

[IndyHawk]

Pete's always had a lack of appreciation for offensive linemen. I was shocked to see him spend a 1st and a 3rd in the same draft, and it probably happened because he had an excess of picks that year.

Russell's sack rate is directly related to his time to throw number. In addition to his being the 3rd most sacked QB, he's also the 3rd slowest in his delivery. It's not a coincidence.

If you ask me: Pete was being smart because why waste money on OL
when your midget QB can't see and won't throw WRs open and instead
takes off and sandlots the play when everyone else is doing the play as it
was designed.
Many of his sacks are on him period yet he had his team put it out there
blaming the OL.
Another thing was the long developing play calls. What else are you going to
call for a special needs QB who had a cannon but only uses half the field and
avoids the middle?
Anyway enough of my ME3 rant..I thought I'd put a special picture in here for
all of us to enjoy

 

[chris98251]

If you ask me: Pete was being smart because why waste money on OL
when your midget QB can't see and won't throw WRs open and instead
takes off and sandlots the play when everyone else is doing the play as it
was designed.
Many of his sacks are on him period yet he had his team put it out there
blaming the OL.
Another thing was the long developing play calls. What else are you going to
call for a special needs QB who had a cannon but only uses half the field and
avoids the middle?
Anyway enough of my ME3 rant..I thought I'd put a special picture in here for
all of us to enjoy
View attachment 61584

You never will be PRIMETIME Mini ME3

 

[MORGULON]

The most recent Chiefs game is a microcosm of Wilson's current level of play. The Broncos offense was stagnant and hard to watch. Sean Payton brought Peteball to Denver. Even when the running game is not working, they are running the ball.

Russ threw for 114 yards on 19 attempts. He was sacked on 24% of his pass attempts; PFF credits him for causing 4/6. Yet he still finishes the day with 3 TDs and a passer rating of 119.3. Meanwhile, he had a PFF score of 59.1, worse than Mahomes (64.5), who had 3 turnovers.

It's dawning on Payton what he has in lil bat-mite . He's taking everything away from #3 and dumbing down the offense to lower turnover and sack risk. He would rather lose running the ball then having bat-mite panic and run figure 8s.

If Denver is truly with Payton for the long haul , I could see them eating the massive cap hit and starting fresh in 2025.

Oh , and that GM should lose his job

 

[MORGULON]

You never will be PRIMETIME Mini ME3

He is the ultimate DORK.

 

[RiverDog]

This, uh, worst offensive line in the NFL, did it get traded to Denver, along with Russell Wilson's league worst sack and pressure rate?

Actually, Denver's offensive line isn't all that bad. Ahead of Week 9, PFF has them ranked 13th in pass blocking, 10th in run blocking:

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