Wagner returns to Seattle (1 year/$7 million)

[Hawknballs]

OK, I'll go ahead and say it.

People who don't like this move are crappy fans who don't deserve a good team.

 

[toffee]

It is tragic when a player goes down with a serious injury, but "failure of our youth movement" seems way over the top. Barton moving on is more normal than not for a middling off-ball LB. More importantly, Bobby's departure last season was not about youth but about cap space, Bobby acting as his own agent, and his refusal to play for a figure that matched his value. If he was willing to play last season for whatever he makes this year he would have been retained.

Brooks wasn't much of a factor, some might even said a liability before he was injured? Together, Brooks and Barton was the youth and replacement for an aging Bobby. I guess we have to agree to disagree

 

[JPatera76]

OK, I'll go ahead and say it.

People who don't like this move are crappy fans who don't deserve a good team.

Yeah idk what there isn’t to like about this move. Seattles trying to go to a defensive scheme that.. Bobby actually accelerated in last year with the rams. If anything he’ll be a hell of a good coach to the likes of Devin bush and other LBs we bring in

 

[Sgt. Largent]

OK, I'll go ahead and say it.

People who don't like this move are crappy fans who don't deserve a good team.

Not entirely fair. I'm fine with bringing Bobby back, but there is some risk for a one year contract on a front 7 that's still in it's infancy of a complete rebuild.

Especially if the 7M is fully guaranteed. So we'll see what the contract details look like. if it's something like 4M with incentives up to 7M? That's a little more palatable than 7M fully guaranteed.

Again, for a dude we all love, but probably won't be here past 2023.

 

[toffee]

Yeah idk what there isn’t to like about this move. Seattles trying to go to a defensive scheme that.. Bobby actually accelerated in last year with the rams. If anything he’ll be a hell of a good coach to the likes of Devin bush and other LBs we bring in

super stars seldom made good coaches, things just came too naturally to those stars?

 

[Hawk4life]

This is kind of bizarre, why would Wagz end a 5 year/$50 mil deal for 1 year/$7 mil? I'm definitely not complaining. But it does make me have to ask (yet again), what the hell was the point of letting him go in the first place, how much better could we have been last year and how far did this set our defense back?

 

[Hawknballs]

This is kind of bizarre, why would Wagz end a 5 year/$50 mil deal for 1 year/$7 mil? I'm definitely not complaining. But it does make me have to ask (yet again), what the hell was the point of letting him go in the first place, how much better could we have been last year and how far did this set our defense back?

He was cut, he didn't 'end' anything himself.

 

[Hawk4life]

He was cut, he didn't 'end' anything himself.

He had a 5 year contract, they mutually agreed to part ways.

Eight-time Pro Bowl LB Bobby Wagner to be cut by Rams after 1 year with team, per report

Bobby Wagner's Los Angeles homecoming last just one year after he signed a five-year, $50 million contract last offseason.

www.usatoday.com

 

[SantaClaraHawk]

This is kind of bizarre, why would Wagz end a 5 year/$50 mil deal for 1 year/$7 mil? I'm definitely not complaining. But it does make me have to ask (yet again), what the hell was the point of letting him go in the first place, how much better could we have been last year and how far did this set our defense back?

Bobby Was let go because of hubris. The kind we always see around our draft picks. Fairly, outside Tariq, Fade is right in that we haven’t been that spectacular, but there is always the premise that we’re gonna be or that we would be if only we let the youngsters cook.

I remember well all the optimism around Collier. Eskeridge. Boys Mafe. Shaquill Griffin. Well…

 

[Hawknballs]

He had a 5 year contract, they mutually agreed to part ways.

Eight-time Pro Bowl LB Bobby Wagner to be cut by Rams after 1 year with team, per report

Bobby Wagner's Los Angeles homecoming last just one year after he signed a five-year, $50 million contract last offseason.

www.usatoday.com

The "mutual" part is just a nice way of saying "we didn't want to keep paying him on our rebuilding toilet team so we are letting him and his contract walk". Basically not cutting him because of performance.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

He had a 5 year contract, they mutually agreed to part ways.

Eight-time Pro Bowl LB Bobby Wagner to be cut by Rams after 1 year with team, per report

Bobby Wagner's Los Angeles homecoming last just one year after he signed a five-year, $50 million contract last offseason.

www.usatoday.com

No player chooses to end his lucrative contract, unless he knows he can get a better on on the free agent market.

Wagner was cut, just like we cut guys like Shelby Harris and Gabe Jackson before they were set to make more money than we wanted to pay them going forward.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

The "mutual" part is just a nice way of saying "we didn't want to keep paying him on our rebuilding toilet team so we are letting him and his contract walk". Basically not cutting him because of performance.

Wasn't his deal structured to essentially be a 1 or 2 year max deal to continue their buy now pay later strategy?

 

[Hawknballs]

Wasn't his deal structured to essentially be a 1 or 2 year max deal to continue their buy now pay later strategy?

Most of the hit will be this season for the rams - 3.5m base salary, 4m of his prorated bonus. That will leave about 2.5m dead money next year for the rams afaik to meet his 20m guarantee after his signing bonus and 2022 salary.

I don't know the details of his contract with them besides surface details though. It's possible there were escalators and incentives built in that would put them on the hook for more after this season if he had stayed.

 

[flv2]

Not entirely fair. I'm fine with bringing Bobby back, but there is some risk for a one year contract on a front 7 that's still in it's infancy of a complete rebuild...

It's not remotely fair and an 'agree with my opinion or you're a crappy fan' post doesn't leave many directions for a friendly discussion thread to move into.

 

[Hawknballs]

It's not remotely fair and an 'agree with my opinion or you're a crappy fan' post doesn't leave many directions for a friendly discussion thread to move into.

oh no

 

[AgentDib]

Brooks wasn't much of a factor, some might even said a liability before he was injured? Together, Brooks and Barton was the youth and replacement for an aging Bobby. I guess we have to agree to disagree

Feel free to disregard if you'd like but I think this is an important distinction. I completely see why you could view 2022 as a targeted youth movement because we did get much younger. "Correlation does not imply causation" though and getting younger was merely a side effect of trying to eke more value out of the roster with a huge dead cap hit from Russ sitting on the books.

Pete's clear intent in 2022 was to win as many games as humanely possible after getting rid of Russ. Bobby's cap hit was far larger than his play warranted and so we went for better value at the position. If Pete could have retained Bobby for even twice the price of Barton he would have jumped at that chance. The youth we did play were both very cheap and players that Pete felt were ready to contribute immediately. The goal wasn't to play youth, however, but to win games.

Bringing Bobby back this year does not represent a change in strategy from trying a youth movement, failing at it, and going back to a veteran. Rather, it is a continuation of that same "win as many games this year as we possibly can" strategy - which I am not always on board with because it does sacrifice the future. That distinction matters because when we are predicting what the FO is going to do going forwards, you should bet heavily on the "what wins games in 2023" strategy over the "get younger" strategy wherever they differ.

 

[flv2]

The coaching staff should always be in 'win now' mode. It's up to the GM to decide if all available resources can be used or what resources should be held back for the future.

 

[kidhawk]

The coaching staff should always be in 'win now' mode. It's up to the GM to decide if all available resources can be used or what resources should be held back for the future.

Don't forget, Pete is above John on the hierarchy of the front office. They work in tandem on personnel decisions. It's not like a lot of teams where the Coach is under the GM. At least that was the deal when he came. I doubt that changed in any of the subsequent contracts.

 

[toffee]

Don't forget, Pete is above John on the hierarchy of the front office. They work in tandem on personnel decisions. It's not like a lot of teams where the Coach is under the GM. At least that was the deal when he came. I doubt that changed in any of the subsequent contracts.

Has the hierarchy been changed? Could John be equal or at least has more influence on drafting?

 

[AgentDib]

The coaching staff should always be in 'win now' mode. It's up to the GM to decide if all available resources can be used or what resources should be held back for the future.

I think that's it exactly. Pete's incentive is to look really hard at 2023 while John has to balance that with an eye to the future. Ownership also has a key role to keep GMs on a short leash from trading away the future.

Don't forget, Pete is above John on the hierarchy of the front office. They work in tandem on personnel decisions. It's not like a lot of teams where the Coach is under the GM. At least that was the deal when he came. I doubt that changed in any of the subsequent contracts.

Pete is definitely still in charge, but of course that doesn't mean he will always overrule those below him. From what we heard about trading Russ, it sounded like Pete wouldn't go along with it in 2021 but was persuaded in 2022 as things changed. Once they did trade Russ, Pete did everything in his power to still win despite the dead cap hit, instead of embarking upon the full rebuild that everybody assumed we'd be doing. I bet John would prefer to have even more draft capital right now and be taking a cheap rookie QB.