Pay Geno

[Maelstrom787]

Show me one game he brought us back for a win late and he was the reason we won? Not more than $10 mil for Geno.

He was a primary reason that the team won in every winning game he's played, because he's good and hasn't played bad all year.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Remember when it was "Geno only does it against bad defenses! Let's see it against the Saints!" and then he put together yet another excellent outing with very limited mistakes and a couple of stunning throws, and then the goalposts moved again to some flukey "he didn't single-handedly win the game" crap?

The goalposts will never, ever stop moving. People cannot change their priors on him. There will never be fully objective analysis of his play, because people will never accept him due to the stigma his name carries.

If he ends up overcoming the defense and doing it all himself a couple of times, the goalposts will move again to "well, he hasn't done it every time."

When there's nowhere left to move the goalposts, they'll say "I don't care. He's Geno Smith, he's not the answer."

It'll never change.

Completely agree and I knew this was going to happen after he performed well against the Saints.

 

[nsport]

Bah. I'm ok with being a homer, but saying this guy is a 25million QB is hogwash for sure. It's also ok to be critical of your QB. We were spoiled having a magician multiple times a year baling out the team.

Still, despite it all, NFL games are managed to one score and perfect execution (and reduction of risk taking throughout the game). Don't agree? Just look at the betting lines each week - most are 3 points or less - 7 points on the top end. That's because they expect NFL players to do their job in the 4th quarter at crunch time.

It's still a fact that Geno Smith has not done that (performed on game saving or critical possession 4th quarter drives). I say don't pay him. Roll with him if you have to, but don't pay him. It would be a huge mistake to do so.

 

[m0ng0]

Signing Russell long term before he had played a down or signing Geno after 5 weeks against marginal competition...neither one seems like sound logic

 

[Spin Doctor]

He was a primary reason that the team won in every winning game he's played, because he's good and hasn't played bad all year.

I get that but he also has struggled when the game is on the line. This was an issue with Geno as far back as his collegiate career.

I will say, he is playing really good ball and making all of the throws right now. The TD's that he pulled off to DK and Lockett were throws that Wilson would have struggled to make in his prime. They were something I would expect Rodgers and Allen to make but not many other QB's. He's no longer just taking what he's given in the last few games.

Geno's command at the LOS is also incredible. He's getting his blockers in position and constantly adjusting his protection, making savvy audibles and putting his guys in the position to set him up for success. I haven't seen a Seahawks QB this good at the LOS since prime Matt Hasselbeck in Holmgren's system. Russell Wilson is playing checkers at the LOS while GENO is playing chess.

Now, I do have worries about Geno, most of it stemming back from his college days. He went on tear and then got kicked in by a ranked team. After that he seemingly was unable to bounce back. On the Jets it was very much so the same story. He showed flashes but regressed.

My take on this is we should probably wait until the season is over to talk about signing him. My worry is he'll end up a Kirk Cousins, or perhaps a Tannehill sort of character. A QB that is by all rights decent, but struggles in crunch time situations.

All that being said, I'm starting to come around to Geno after seeing him torch a fairly good Saints defense. He made throws in that game that backup QB's just don't make.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Bah. I'm ok with being a homer, but saying this guy is a 25million QB is hogwash for sure. It's also ok to be critical of your QB. We were spoiled having a magician multiple times a year baling out the team.

Still, despite it all, NFL games are managed to one score and perfect execution (and reduction of risk taking throughout the game). Don't agree? Just look at the betting lines each week - most are 3 points or less - 7 points on the top end. That's because they expect NFL players to do their job in the 4th quarter at crunch time.

It's still a fact that Geno Smith has not done that (performed on game saving or critical possession 4th quarter drives). I say don't pay him. Roll with him if you have to, but don't pay him. It would be a huge mistake to do so.

I mean, if we're going to roll with him beyond this year we will need to pay him.

 

[themunn]

Definitely a couple good points, but it comes down to the lens on the problem. It's a fact statistically that Geno is having a good year, the defense is notoriously bad, and that Geno has not engineered any game saving or go-ahead drives yet this season.

This quote is about the lens on things - The reason Wilson never had to in that situation is we almost never gave up that many points, nor we never asked him to put up that many. It's a conundrum of circumstance that we have a defense that has to take too many chances, giving up so many points that opposing defenses are not as brutal from play to play as we have faced year over year during the Russell Wilson era. What I'm saying is the statistical anomaly of Geno Smith and Pro-Bowl-like numbers is due to the circumstance, not to his skill. When in crunch time, we see old Geno. When nothing's on the line, defenses give us a lot of leeway - plus lots of good targets as I mentioned makes it pretty easy to run our offense - along with a decent running game too.

Crunch time. No performance. That is still the overwhelming fact here.

I would say that the final drive against Detroit was game saving - we are only 3 points ahead, and if we don't score there Detroit gets the ball with 2 minutes to score a TD to win the game. We do score (2 3rd down conversion passes then an audible on 3rd down into the 3rd down TD run), and Detroit DO drive down and score a TD which would have been game winning if not for the previous drive.

The stats don't show it as a GWD but anyone watching that game knew that if we didn't score then, then it was highly likely we lost that game - with Detroit scoring a TD on all but one possession in the 2nd half

 

[nsport]

I would say that the final drive against Detroit was game saving.

On that 2nd to final drive, Penny's 41 yard touchdown put us in that position. Geno was fine on that drive I suppose - so it's a valid point. Who knows if Smith had it in him to run the 4 minute offense to end the game... but he was definitely doing fine on that drive. Detroit sold out on that Penny run and he outran the defense, so I'd give Detroit's inability to defend just as much credit as Smith's ability to execute.

 

[themunn]

On that 2nd to final drive, Penny's 41 yard touchdown put us in that position. Geno was fine on that drive I suppose - so it's a valid point. Who knows if Smith had it in him to run the 4 minute offense to end the game... but he was definitely doing fine on that drive. Detroit sold out on that Penny run and he outran the defense, so I'd give Detroit's inability to defend just as much credit as Smith's ability to execute.

As I said, 2 third down conversions, and Geno is the one who audibled into the Penny run. What more can you ask from him? He can only beat the team in front on him, and he did

 

[nsport]

As I said, 2 third down conversions, and Geno is the one who audibled into the Penny run. What more can you ask from him? He can only beat the team in front on him, and he did

Naturally, we can dissect the losses in a similar fashion. No probs. As I said, I can't blame the homer-colored glasses. He's OK. He's a .500 QB who has a hard time finishing games. That's just how it is... but he's our guy, so root for our guy since there's nobody else.

 

[JGreen79]

Bah. I'm ok with being a homer, but saying this guy is a 25million QB is hogwash for sure. It's also ok to be critical of your QB. We were spoiled having a magician multiple times a year baling out the team.

Still, despite it all, NFL games are managed to one score and perfect execution (and reduction of risk taking throughout the game). Don't agree? Just look at the betting lines each week - most are 3 points or less - 7 points on the top end. That's because they expect NFL players to do their job in the 4th quarter at crunch time.

It's still a fact that Geno Smith has not done that (performed on game saving or critical possession 4th quarter drives). I say don't pay him. Roll with him if you have to, but don't pay him. It would be a huge mistake to do so.

I agree with not paying him. Unfortunately $25 million will probably be the market for him at this rate. That would still pay him less than Goff, Wentz, Cousins, Ryan and Tannehill

 

[FrodosFinger]

 

[olyfan63]

You can't expect your qb to keep on 'engineering' game winning drives when a defense constantly gives up the lead you just got. Seriously? And pulling out games from last year when we allowed TJ Watt to basically batter the crap out of our qb the whole game or a Saints game where the coaches literally didn't let him throw as 'proof' he he's ineffective in crunch time?

Give Geno a defense and some of those td drives in the 4th or late in the game will be the 'game winners'.

It's like this fan base now prefers an offense that can't do squat for 3.75 qtrs but manages to put one or two solid drives together to win the game.

Should they pay him now? No. You need to see hiw he finishes the year.

Should we forego a qbotf? No. Draft our guy next year anyway. But the dude is performing at a top 5 level in the league. If he finishes top 10...?

How many FOs in the league have a top 10 qb and let him walk? Top 12?

The talk all off season was about how you HAVE TO HAVE a good to great player at the position ton win anymore in this league. Top 12 is good. Top 10 is good to great. Cherrypicking 'comebacks ' as a stat to say he's not shown enough when your defense can't stop anyone and your young o-line takes points off the board is bonkers.

You make some fair points, but Geno has a history of choking at crunch time, basically freezing up and taking very untimely sacks, fumbles, and generally just being very "unlucky". What I'm looking for is for him to succeed in at least SOME game-on-the-line 4th quarter situations. I think we MAY start seeing that as part of Geno's natural development. Earlier in the season, an issue for me was, "can Geno continue his first half success in the second half?" Geno has now shown that he can. It may have been Waldron, rather than Geno, that had the problem, of adjusting to opponent's defensive halftime adjustments.

I would love to cite the Lions game where Geno led the offense to crunch-time scores. I'll give Geno credit for audibling into well-designed run plays that Penny took to the house in crunch time, that wound up being the game-winner. I would just love to see an example or two where Geno marches the team methodically down the field with his passing in these crunch time situations. Did I miss one?

It might also need to be Waldron (and sports psychologists?) that help Geno past his crunch-time choking problem. He seems to "freeze" in these situations. To me it seems like he's trying to do too much. I don't feel like I (or others who cite this deficiency of his) are moving the goalposts. We're simply waiting and hoping to see him improve. It was a 3rd and 2-ish, IIRC, in the Saints game, where Geno took a big sack that made going for it on 4th down a moot point. Geno held the ball, held the ball, Hero Ball, got sacked. We've seen this movie several times now. Geno does not have Peak-Russell's elusiveness and scramble drill QB superpowers. I don't expect him to. Very few QBs do. Geno's Hero Ball sucks, leads to sacks. Maybe Waldron has to fix this by making things simple and short in these situations, running minimal-risk-of-sack plays that get the ball out of Geno's hands quickly.

 

[chris98251]

If you Franchise him and he doesn't sign a deal that's top 5 QB pay.....

If your going to keep him like I stated in another thread wait till week ten which lines up with the bye coming up and give him a 3 year deal if he earned it.

 

[Maui12thman]

Sorry, but if you think 32 yo Geno Smith leading a .500 campaign is gonna command 30-50 million a year, your wrong. Please do not forget that this IS a rebuild year, the Strategy going forward is (see circa 2010-15) build roster, then plug in QB on a rookie deal.

I expect it will be at least 5 years before Geno retires, he only turned 32 today and he hasn't had thre games for his body to get beat up. Brady is exceptionl at 45, but Rogers is 38 and Ryan is 37 and historically most QBs have played to their late 30s with his lack of games Geno could easily play at 40.

If by the end of the season Geno is still playing at a top 15 level then we should stick with him. putting the franchise tag on him is an option but if he continues to plat well in 2023 the contract will skyrocket. With 1 good season and uncertainty if it will be repeated we might have to pay €30m a year a good 2023 especially with a deep play off run we might be looking at €50m.

Geno playing well is our best option for a winning 2023. We have a lot of holes in our team but we have a lot of draft capital especial if we get 1 or 2 high picks. Trade down a couple of times to teams desperate to get their hands on a promising but unproven QB and we could have about 10 picks in the first 3 rounds to gratly improve the team overall, giving us a shot at the SB in 2023 and /or 2024. Then we can think about a replacement for Geno.

Drafting a QB is always a risk even in the first round (Johnny Manzel anyone) if we have a QB we are happy to start let other teams take that risk.

the three QBs you name are literally the 3 exceptions. And to make any Geno comparison the likes of Brady or Rogers is beyond insane. also, Geno has played 50 games, has been sacked over 100 times and his miles are hard miles. Geno, should he continue his pace is literally a unicorn. If you think the Hawks brass wanna hitch their wagon to the Journeyman Geno Smith. I disagree.
however, he could be the perfect bridge QB for the next 2-3 years. But the model the Brass will not waver from is first putting the machine together, and then giving the wheel to a youngster on a rookie deal. Please, no more wind-ups.

 

[WmHBonney]

I heard some "experts" talking about what Geno will be making next year. Trubisky's name was brought up as a reference point. They seem to think that Geno will cost in the $25 mil range. Thoughts?

 

[Maui12thman]

You spelled “so-called experts” wrong.

 

[scutterhawk]

I didn't pin the losses on him. That's on Diggs. But for sure, Geno is not any better than a .500 QB on a good team. Doesn't deliver in the clutch - hasn't yet this year, so I don't expect him to, period. If he was 50% on 4th QTR gotta-have-it drives, we'd be 3-2 right now. He had the ball with chances to win. Keep in mind, he has 5 really good targets and had chances to pull the ball down. Dissly was wide open on 3rd and 2, and he could have scrambled for it rather than take a sack. That's bad football right there... really bad.

Take a moment and consider his "value" as a trade piece - there isn't any. I don't know why people are so quick to give him so much respect. I may be a little salty towards him, but nothing I said is wrong.

Not only are you "Salty" but a WHOLE LOT of what you're professing IS "Wrong"
Care to venture a guess on how many "Comeback Wins" that Wilson has pulled off with a CRAP Seahawks DEFENSE the likes of the one that's playing opposite of Geno right now???

 

[Maelstrom787]

Sorry, but if you think 32 yo Geno Smith leading a .500 campaign is gonna command 30-50 million a year, your wrong. Please do not forget that this IS a rebuild year, the Strategy going forward is (see circa 2010-15) build roster, then plug in QB on a rookie deal.

the three QBs you name are literally the 3 exceptions. And to make any Geno comparison the likes of Brady or Rogers is beyond insane. also, Geno has played 50 games, has been sacked over 100 times and his miles are hard miles. Geno, should he continue his pace is literally a unicorn. If you think the Hawks brass wanna hitch their wagon to the Journeyman Geno Smith. I disagree.
however, he could be the perfect bridge QB for the next 2-3 years. But the model the Brass will not waver from is first putting the machine together, and then giving the wheel to a youngster on a rookie deal. Please, no more wind-ups.

He's played 3 seasons worth of games and has been sacked... what, 2 seasons worth of Russell Wilson's sack numbers?

Sounds like very low mileage, considering his age...

 

[nsport]

Not only are you "Salty" but a WHOLE LOT of what you're professing IS "Wrong"
Care to venture a guess on how many "Comeback Wins" that Wilson has pulled off with a CRAP Seahawks DEFENSE the likes of the one that's playing opposite of Geno right now???

Might be the funniest thing I've read today if I'm being honest. Games are managed to one possession. That's just true. He's not delivering in the clutch, didn't do it last year and not this year. I'm not blaming him for all the losses but it's a fact he had the ball in his hands with chances to win.