Pete Carroll Continues to be Redeemed

[scutterhawk]

Everyone is quick to say see I was right! but really its so early in the process that lets see how it plays out. Lets say Russ is washed and he continues his downward spiral....it doesn't change the fact that he was an absolute monster for 10 years here and near league best during that process. The wanting to re-write history like his success was solely because of Pete or that it was all smokescreens and mirrors is ridiculous. Boo the hell out of him, root for him to be bad because we benefit from it is all fair game, trying to act like he always was the problem or even a problem is dumb.

LOLOL Yeah, "An Absolute Monster" that Pete CODDLED, until he realized that Russ had QUIT on him.
Wilson was absolutely fine with everything that went to sh*t was "ALL PETE'S FAULT" and that it was HE who was the only bright spot.
Russ didn't believe that Pete was doing everything in his power to HELP HIM SUCCEED.
What was GOOD for Pete was GOOD for THE SEAHAWKS, was GOOD for RUSS.
NOW it's his NEW Head Coach Hackett who is catching all the flack, hey, SOMEONE BESIDES PETE CARROLL has to take the BLAME for why Wilson is playing so sh*tty...The Baton Has Been Passed...

 

[Ozzy]

Damn man that is way too many capitalized words for me. Never did I say he was the "only bright spot" Not once. Why is every argument now feel like a political binary point of view like it has to be either or? Social media has broken our ability to be nuanced.

Russ was a monster. Pete was a fantastic coach. The Defense was good. All can be true at the same time.

 

[seatownlowdown]

1. Pete really knows Russ, especially his fragile psychic. The Monday night game was the hammer, Pete made sure all the ex-players were there, fans would boo, and Pete willed the Hawks to win that game. In the end, fans booed, Sherm, Marshawn and buds were there, and Geno upped his game. We WON. Pete turn that tux and bow tie celebration into a humble pie.
2. There were reports that Bronco teammates had to wait an hour on bus for Russ to get dressed, I speculate that Russ had a melt down in there, team Russ had to calm him down before he's ready to face the world.
3. Pete's announcement of "He does what he was told" on Geno, it might be a message for Russ, I always question what play was sent to Russ over the headset on the super bowl INT. Ummm, "He does what he was told"??? Days before the national televised game? Another meltdown, this time on the field for all to see.
4. Now, an avalanche of national media beating up on that sensitive nerves. Can go out for dinner without side eyes.

1. wilson is really fragile, and pete babied him, and now we know a) to what extent and b) the reason why. he is fragile.
2. really? did this happen? if so, imagine being a player sitting on a bus and your qb has the audacity to make 52 other players wait while he throws a tantrum! if true, that was the 1st domino. he made it more than just a "loss".
3. yep, i read pete's statement of "he does what he was told" really being an insightful dig to wilson. but i don't think the "do what you're told" thing was specifically about the superbowl loss. i think it's been a larger issue where wilson doesn't follow the what gameplan or playcall needs. either way, suggests wilson is a diva who won't take direction and wants to do things his way.
4. yep, the repercussions for his behavior and the situation HE created are unavoidable now. nothing's off limits, and even the biggest wilson apologists can't save him now.

 

[MORGULON]

This is beautiful on multiple levels. PC and JS redemption, fleecing Denver's future , creepy dorf #3 making things more Clear every week.

Bronco fans losing their ever loving minds.

 

[knownone]

Let's be very clear. The idea that Pete was an old curmudgeon, fixed in his ways, running an outdated offense, was always wrong. So I don't even view this as redemption for Pete. It's more of an awakening for his detractors.

 

[CalgaryFan05]

Pete Carroll

On the count of wasting a franchise QBs prime by holding him back you're found: not guilty

On the count of having an outdated archaic offense that no longer works in the NFL you're found: not guilty

On the count of mistakenly trading away a franchise QB for less than he was worth you're found: not guilty

This. I love the people's court model

On the count of being too old and addled: not guilty (okay, except for the cellphone/challenge flag incident).

On the count of having an employee that makes 5X as much as you become insubordinate, and unfireable: guilty.

On the count of being the most successful coach in our history: guilty.

I could do this all day

The fact remains: He had an employee that he could not fire. That employee decided to never follow his direction. He was caught in the middle in a no-win situation. He's been TRYING to do the PC thing for 5 years - and someone kept blowing him up, and he couldn't discipline that person. It happens. I've been in the EXACT same situation 3 times with employees over the years.

Again, no redemption needed for Pete. I've completely come back around on him, and glad we have him, again, for as long as we can.

 

[RiverDog]

The signs were always there, and the truth is blinding at this point.

We've played just 4 games out of a 17 game season, the Broncos have played 5. No one gets 'redeemed' in roughly 25% of a season.

Pete is a defensive minded coach, and right now, we're sporting the 31st ranked defense in both total yards and points. It's been like that for several years now. It's been 5 years since Pete put out a defense in the top 10, and it's gotten progressively worse since then. If he's redeemed himself with regards to Russell, he's renounced himself as a credible defensive coach.

So please, don't tell me what a genius Pete is for being "redeemed" regarding his stance on Russell. It's been more than eclipsed by his defensive incompetence.

 

[toffee]

1. wilson is really fragile, and pete babied him, and now we know a) to what extent and b) the reason why. he is fragile.

We don't know why Wilson is fragile, but Pete babied him, that we know.

2. really? did this happen? if so, imagine being a player sitting on a bus and your qb has the audacity to make 52 other players wait while he throws a tantrum! if true, that was the 1st domino. he made it more than just a "loss".

I got it from this article, https://sports.mynorthwest.com/1668...st-russell-wilson-broncos-easy-seahawks-fans/
+++
And I’ve even heard some of his teammates weren’t wild about him taking over an hour to get dressed after the loss in Seattle because they were stuck on the bus waiting for him the whole time. Can you imagine how annoyed you would be losing on the road and then having to sit on the bus forever waiting for your new teammate who has made it all about him? Those are the little things that add up.
+++

3. yep, i read pete's statement of "he does what he was told" really being an insightful dig to wilson. but i don't think the "do what you're told" thing was specifically about the superbowl loss. i think it's been a larger issue where wilson doesn't follow the what gameplan or playcall needs. either way, suggests wilson is a diva who won't take direction and wants to do things his way.

I don't know that for sure, just an unproven suspicion.

4. yep, the repercussions for his behavior and the situation HE created are unavoidable now. nothing's off limits, and even the biggest wilson apologists can't save him now.

 

[Maelstrom787]

We've played just 4 games out of a 17 game season, the Broncos have played 5. No one gets 'redeemed' in roughly 25% of a season.

Pete is a defensive minded coach, and right now, we're sporting the 31st ranked defense in both total yards and points. It's been like that for several years now. It's been 5 years since Pete put out a defense in the top 10, and it's gotten progressively worse since then. If he's redeemed himself with regards to Russell, he's renounced himself as a credible defensive coach.

So please, don't tell me what a genius Pete is for being "redeemed" regarding his stance on Russell. It's been more than eclipsed by his defensive incompetence.

16th in scoring defense in 2020, and 12th in 2021.

In fact, they've finished below 16th only once in the entire decade in scoring defense - 2019.

Furthermore, your contention that being redeemed in regard to Russell is somehow tied to a denunciation as a defensive coach makes very, very little sense.

Everything continues pointing to Pete having maximized and protected Russell, who has so far been a SPECTACULAR failure and significantly tainted his own reputation in just 5 games.

There's a reason most of the nation is talking Pete up and clowning Russ - the start to this season has been severely, outlandishly bad for Russell after an entire years long narrative was spun suggesting that he was being held back.

Then again, it's only been a quarter of a season. By your own logic, you should probably cool it on really judging the defense, since everything is new, right? If no one can be redeemed in such a short period of time, surely you cannot condemn anything based on the same sample.

 

[toffee]

The thing about Russ's Broncos games, he hasn't improved, in fact, his game has regressed each week from playing sort of OK, to totally unacceptable. For Bronco fans, there's no light in the end of the tunnel, and Broncos fans do not have any history or good will with Russ.

The thing with Russ's fragile psyche, the more boos and media critiques, the more he will regress. Something Pete knew and counted on, very reason why Pete engineered boos on the MNF.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

Let's be very clear. The idea that Pete was an old curmudgeon, fixed in his ways, running an outdated offense, was always wrong. So I don't even view this as redemption for Pete. It's more of an awakening for his detractors.

I’m not willing to let him off the hook so completely. Especially on defense. I know you’re specifically talking about offense but he did do very similar things even if you discount Russ. That is, he kept trying to run the team as if he had Lynch and the LOB long after they were gone. He didn’t play to the personnel he had, he tried to play them to the scheme that wasn’t working without the players needed.

 

[Seahawker]

The thing about Russ's Broncos games, he hasn't improved, in fact, his game has regressed each week from playing sort of OK, to totally unacceptable. For Bronco fans, there's no light in the end of the tunnel, and Broncos fans do not have any history or good will with Russ.

The thing with Russ's fragile psychic, the more boos and media critiques, the more he will regress. Something Pete knew and counted on, very reason why Pete engineered boos on the MNF.

Denver has five home games and seven on the road left, If he can start to play well at Empower Field in Mile High then the boo's will die down and RW can start to be a positive force for this franchise. If not its going to be a long, tough road for Mr. Unlimited & the Brand.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

The thing about Russ's Broncos games, he hasn't improved, in fact, his game has regressed each week from playing sort of OK, to totally unacceptable. For Bronco fans, there's no light in the end of the tunnel, and Broncos fans do not have any history or good will with Russ.

The thing with Russ's fragile psychic, the more boos and media critiques, the more he will regress. Something Pete knew and counted on, very reason why Pete engineered boos on the MNF.

I dunno if it’s an autocorrect or not but every time I see fragile psychic (instead of psyche) I think of Gavin’s swami yes man from Silicon Valley or some skin and bones old man with a turban and a loincloth, and I get a chuckle out of it.

 

[sc85sis]

An unproven conspiracy theory here, mods, feel free to delete:

1. Pete really knows Russ, especially his fragile psychic. The Monday night game was the hammer, Pete made sure all the ex-players were there, fans would boo, and Pete willed the Hawks to win that game. In the end, fans booed, Sherm, Marshawn and buds were there, and Geno upped his game. We WON. Pete turn that tux and bow tie celebration into a humble pie.
2. There were reports that Bronco teammates had to wait an hour on bus for Russ to get dressed, I speculate that Russ had a melt down in there, team Russ had to calm him down before he's ready to face the world.
3. Pete's announcement of "He does what he was told" on Geno, it might be a message for Russ, I always question what play was sent to Russ over the headset on the super bowl INT. Ummm, "He does what he was told"??? Days before the national televised game? Another meltdown, this time on the field for all to see.
4. Now, an avalanche of national media beating up on that sensitive nerves. Can go out for dinner without side eyes.

Pete babied Russ, he knows how much Russ needed protection. Pete also knew how to destroy Russ, and we are witnessing it. The antiqued "peteball" is powering Geno to be the top 5 QB in the league, it's pass happy and balanced. Pete is proving that his offense philosophy was what team3 has been laughing at, just that Russ couldn't execute those plays, or not willing, or "do what he was told".

As is, Russ may not bounce back, not with his fragile psychic, not with teammates side eyeing him, not with national media turning against him. not with Geno getting praises, not with Bronco fans booing him.

Pete the genius or evil is striking back, putting the pin where it hurts.

Will Russ survive? I think not, the Russ that we knew may be done.

Pete has never struck me as being vindictive in the way you’re implying. My guess is he’s sorry to see Russell struggling.

 

[IndyHawk]

Depends. I think blame lies on both parties here. It sounds like Pete Carroll didn't manage Russell Wilson very well here. Sounded like there wasn't much accountability towards Wilson. Pete coddled him as a player, so much so according to Sherman that he intervened when they said something simple such as "You suck" after baiting him into a pick. That's the sort of thing that defensive players said to the offense all of the time in middle school and high school after a play was made. He shielded him from criticism and fostered poor behavior and habits on Wilson part.

Russell Wilson is also accountable because at some point he stopped trying to grow as a player. He became more obsessed with stroking his ego and growing his brand. I'm not even sure how much he cares about the game anymore. He came into the season looking like he was 30-40 pounds overweight. He failed to take ownership of his mistakes. He said all of the right things in public but behind closed doors his reputation was different among the team. His own teammates came out and said they flat out don't like him, this including his number one receiver -- Doug Baldwin.

Managing egos is hard, even if you do it perfectly it can get rough. In this case I don't think Pete is blameless for everything that transpired. We also need to understand in this whole "wasting Pete's prime" mantra is his defenses have been pretty lackluster since 2017. The offense has been floating this team for quite some time, and the Seahawks have funneled massive amounts of picks into the defense, specifically in high draft picks for minimum return. We specifically have failed at finding a competent pass rusher and D-Line talent has been a hit or miss. The O and D coordinators we've hired -- specifically guys like Cable, Bevell, Schottenheimer and Ken Norton Jr. have also been retreads with poor track records. They also were kept along for way past their expiration date.

Schottenheimer is the only one of these guys that I think was alright in the long run. I think he was just brought in because he had a reputation for being a hard ass that was a QB guru. He was known for making his guys toe the line. I look at him as a last ditch effort to mold Wilson into a more prototypical QB. Him and Norton Jr. had reputations for being old school, no nonsense you better toe the line or else sort of guys. This happened after a tumultuous 2017 campaign, both on the field and in the locker room.

Schottenheimer succeeded in some regards at first. In 2018 and part of 19 he was playing more from the pocket and hitting more of those short passes. He was doing more conventional 3 step drops and such and looking okay at it. He then regressed back into the Wilson we all know at some point.

Can't just point to Wilson here, but I do give Pete credit for finally offloading Wilson. This is a complex tale and it's impossible to know exactly how everything played out behind closed doors or to what degree Pete appeased Wilson and what detriment it had on both of their careers. I definitely think Pete has been thinking about trading Wilson for a very long time now. There were reports of the Bears and the Seahawks talking back before Wilson's last extension leading to a no-trade clause (lol karma's a bitch Wilson). There were also rumors of John Schneider personally attending games and pro-days of Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes. This relationship has been strained for a very long time, I think longer than we know.

I don't know what happened to the Spin from 7 years ago..
Yes me and you were taking flak for questioning whether they should sign Russ to
that first big contract ect and we were pointing out things that were weak parts of his
game ect and whether he would grow as a QB.
I'd say we were onto it even then and I stayed the course but you changed.
Like you didn't like the flak or what not..I don't know but I do know you still have the
great posting ability as above shows.
I think it's a lot more on Russ and the trying to appease him with players he wanted ect.
It is on Pete for sticking with him for way too long.
Pete is redeemed in the fact that he wasn't holding Russ back at all but protecting him
from himself.
Any offense for Russ is vanilla not Peteball..Peteball is what we are seeing now,it needs the
whole field to work like at USC.
My whole thing with Russ was it all worked when he had the legs to make it work by escaping
pressure,drawing defenses in,throwing deep if they bit and running for big gains if they stayed.
it was his game.
As I said many times "once the legs are gone he's done" What does he have now?I see an
occasional easy 10 yard run out of bounds..The deep ball doesn't fly like it once did and he still
has all the same issues as a QB..That goal line pass?Where have we seen this before.

 

[seatownlowdown]

We've played just 4 games out of a 17 game season, the Broncos have played 5. No one gets 'redeemed' in roughly 25% of a season.

pete's already vindicated for wilson. sorry to burst your bubble. that's how bad wilson has been without pete and how good he's made geno smith look. wilson's and geno's comparative performance thus far have been substantive enough to justify that vindication. geno will have his ups/downs. we just UPGRADED to geno smith. let that sink in. no, geno isn't the long term answer, but neither was wilson. yet, we just saved $250m and got 2 1sts / 2nds out of the broncos for a severely limited qb in visible decline. pete won that trade, the gripe i have is that wison probably should have been traded 2-3 seasons ago. and pete didn't want to give up on wilson, so it set us back years. and that's on pete.

we're sporting the 31st ranked defense in both total yards and points. It's been like that for several years now.

wrong. you're smoking crack

2021) 11th in PPG allowed
2020) 16th in PPG allowed
2019) 19th in PPG allowed
2018) 13th in PPG allowed
2017) 9th in PPG allowed

from 2017-2021 the D wasn't great, like 2012-2016 great, but it wasn't near 2022 bad (31st so far). if anything, 2022 is an outlier thus far. and let's see, we have a new D coordinator, new schematic front, and very few "solid" D players on the roster. oh, and you still need good players to win in the NFL. repairing this defense will take time and new personnel. sure, blame pete all you want for the current setup, i do too, but you're reaching when you say pete is incompetent at implementing defense. reaching. who gets credit for assembling and implementing the most dominant defense of the modern era (2012-2016)? i'll wait.

So please, don't tell me what a genius Pete is

what a disgusting take. yuck. pete getting vindicated in the wilson situation doesn't somehow exonerate him of all wrongdoing. nobody on these forums thinks pete is a genius. please stop making sh*t up.



don't worry dude, pete's only got a couple years left in the tank. and after he retires, everything will be perfect like it was before he came along...

 

[Rainger]

We've played just 4 games out of a 17 game season, the Broncos have played 5. No one gets 'redeemed' in roughly 25% of a season.

Pete is a defensive minded coach, and right now, we're sporting the 31st ranked defense in both total yards and points. It's been like that for several years now. It's been 5 years since Pete put out a defense in the top 10, and it's gotten progressively worse since then. If he's redeemed himself with regards to Russell, he's renounced himself as a credible defensive coach.

So please, don't tell me what a genius Pete is for being "redeemed" regarding his stance on Russell. It's been more than eclipsed by his defensive incompetence.

The D WILL get better.

Big change this year in design but for the last couple of years I think the D was better than it appeared, but when you have a QB constantly going 3 and out, and taking sacks and putting the D on the field for more time than any other team you are bound to have defensive regression.

It will now change and turn around, trust me Pete will put it together in a few weeks of getting the system down.

 

[toffee]

Pete has never struck me as being vindictive in the way you’re implying. My guess is he’s sorry to see Russell struggling.

If Pete is feeling sorry , he is hiding that feeling well.

 

[Mike D in 332]

To me it’s simple at this point: The Seahawks had their greatest success with Pete, John and Russ in lockstep. Over time Russ’s career and legacy ambition became more important than the team’s success and that’s when Russ became the poop in the Seahawks ice cream.
Mistakes were made by all parties but IMO you can’t win with even a spec of Pooh in the ice cream. No one wants a bite of that ice cream. You can try to eat around the pooh, but you can’t really feel good about it. Always wondering, did I just eat pooh?
I say this while acknowledging that I couldn’t have been more wrong about the dynamics of the Russ Seahawks vs the Pete Seahawks. For example, I was convinced that the coaching staff was responsible for the delay penalties. It appears at this point that those tracked with Russ to Denver. I also had so little belief that Geno could have the success he has enjoyed so far this season. I was so wrong. I couldn’t be happier to be so wrong.
As was stated by others, it’s early in the season and things could still change but so far so good from my Seahawks fan perspective.

 

[Nunya]

We've played just 4 games out of a 17 game season, the Broncos have played 5. No one gets 'redeemed' in roughly 25% of a season.

Pete is a defensive minded coach, and right now, we're sporting the 31st ranked defense in both total yards and points. It's been like that for several years now. It's been 5 years since Pete put out a defense in the top 10, and it's gotten progressively worse since then. If he's redeemed himself with regards to Russell, he's renounced himself as a credible defensive coach.

So please, don't tell me what a genius Pete is for being "redeemed" regarding his stance on Russell. It's been more than eclipsed by his defensive incompetence.

Whenever I see someone repeat that ridiculous mantra of "he is a defensive minded coach" I have a flashback of the gunfight at the end of Quigley Downunder. Watch it if you don't know what I'm referring to.