Drew Lock faithful? You might want to slow your roll

[toffee]

to the first two points (and i think they're accurate), soooo much of the ability of a qb to anticipate his wr being open or to throw him open depends on the relationship the QB has with his OC and how aligned they are and studied he is in a consistent philosophy and game-plan week in and week out. Its true, that reading a defense is reading a defense, so one could argue that it doesnt matter what 'style' of offense you run, what matters is being able to understand man / zone looks and 'see' the areas of the field that will be open. But there's a difference between dictating the terms of engagement and just calling plays. The great playcaller, qb combinations in the league make it easy on themselves by constantly forcing the defense they're playing to second guess what they're seeing. When that starts to happen, the anticipatory part of the QBs game becomes much easier. And the more that QB is in those situations where things are flowing, the more the offense expands, and his grasp of the game grows. It becomes a reflexive, 'if this, then that' series of decisions that become second nature

Lock has NEVER had that opportunity to not just learn under a solid offensive mind, but to establish a relationship with his OC and develop the close bond that playcaller and QB need. So its hard to say that Lock cant do those things. It looks like he cant right now because the Denver offense was never good enough to actually tip the table and keep secondaries guessing. He mentioned specifically the connection he had with his first OC his rookie year and how it reflected in his play and how hard it was transitioning the following year. i think that's notable. He was 4-0 in the offense he felt comfortable in and looked every bit the budding star folks thought he'd be.

If he can develop the above, his pocket awareness and ability to extend plays will improve as well. If he knows where to be in the pocket and can anticipate where the open guy will be play in and play out, and where pressure is coming from, he'll also be able to make quick decisions as to when it makes sense to move himself outside or just take off and scramble for a few yards. Aaron Rodgers isnt an elusive, scrambling QB, but when he pulls the ball down, its usually not on designed runs, but rather is entirely based on his understanding, pre-snap that there's a high prpbability that the run will be there.

The more I read about Lock, the more he sounded like a PeteBall QB, strong running game to reduce QB pressure, play-action that he performed well, long ball to keep defense honest. Under PeteBall, Lock wouldn't have to carry the team, it's less stressful on a young QB.

 

[toffee]

Denver gave him a chance for 3 years and he looked like hot garbage most of that time. Pete Carroll hasn't exactly built up goodwill among the fans over the last few years either. People keep talking about offensive staff being the differentiator here, but what exactly has Shane Waldron proven? He's a newer offensive coordinator that worked pretty far down in the Rams organization. Just because he has ties with McVay doesn't make him McVay.

The bottom line is his NFL resume is not very good at this point. I like his attitude but that only gets you so far in the NFL. I haven't seen much, if any improvement at all in his NFL career thus far. Could he breakout and become a Josh Allen character? Sure, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. It's a lot more likely that we see more of the same from Lock, which is a below average passer/career backup with desirable physical traits. He's a bridge QB, much like Tarvaris Jackson was.

I see him as a game manager, a poor men's Russ without the athleticism. Every year, Russ won 3-4 games with his superlative playground hero ball, Lock couldn't do that. But Lock likely be all-in on coaches' game planning and play calling, like the first few years of Russ, That might just win 1-2 games. So all in all, I see Lock winning 2-3 games less than Russ. If we would to have a 10-7 season and wildcard under Russ, we may be 8-9 under Lock and just miss the playoff.

 

[chris98251]

I see him as a game manager, a poor men's Russ without the athleticism. Every year, Russ won 3-4 games with his superlative playground hero ball, Lock couldn't do that. But Lock likely be all-in on coaches' game planning and play calling, like the first few years of Russ, That might just win 1-2 games. So all in all, I see Lock winning 2-3 games less than Russ. If we would to have a 10-7 season and wildcard under Russ, we may be 8-9 under Lock and just miss the playoff.

Well if he takes the underneath stuff and can move the sticks you may not need to rely on hero ball as much could be argued also.

 

[toffee]

Well if he takes the underneath stuff and can move the sticks you may not need to rely on hero ball as much could be argued also.

So true Chris. Lock does have big arm, couple of deep balls every now and then would keep defense honest.

 

[BASF]

It is so weird to question whether or not Drew Lock is faithful in the thread title. That is between him and God.

 

[Rosco]

He isn't a starter.... He's Sam Darnold category until proven otherwise. He's got a relatively large sample size of being ineffective as a starter.

He’s had one year with no training camp,preseason, oh, and learning a new offense. Not a means to a fair evaluation of Lock.
Year one: 4-1 7 TD 3 int in a WCO like what Seattle runs.

There’s not enough on him to make a definitive assessment of him

 

[keasley45]

Denver gave him a chance for 3 years and he looked like hot garbage most of that time. Pete Carroll hasn't exactly built up goodwill among the fans over the last few years either. People keep talking about offensive staff being the differentiator here, but what exactly has Shane Waldron proven? He's a newer offensive coordinator that worked pretty far down in the Rams organization. Just because he has ties with McVay doesn't make him McVay.

The bottom line is his NFL resume is not very good at this point. I like his attitude but that only gets you so far in the NFL. I haven't seen much, if any improvement at all in his NFL career thus far. Could he breakout and become a Josh Allen character? Sure, but that is extremely unlikely to happen. It's a lot more likely that we see more of the same from Lock, which is a below average passer/career backup with desirable physical traits. He's a bridge QB, much like Tarvaris Jackson was.

One might argue that if you've played qb in Denver over the last 5 years, you've actually had no chance at all. QB isn't the great elixir in itself to turn a franchise around. It's FO, Coach, QB in combination. Proof - the teams that have won championships have had all 3 continuously, or for a period long enough to bring success. Denver's ownership has been beyond questionable and their coaching staff has been below standard for more than a decade (John fox was the best they can offer...). So to say Lock was given every opportunity is like handing a driver the keys to a subpar race car and saying proof that he isn't good is obvious because he didn't win with it. If the car and team behind it sucks, the driver is going to as well, but for occasional spots. That's not to say that if surrounded with a winning 'car' , he will be a Joe Montana. But you also can't say he's as average as he's looked.

 

[Natethegreat]

I'm curious why people keep claiming he hasn't had a chance. He was beaten out by Bridgewater folks. When Denver had every reason to want Lock to start. He has been in the league 3 years now and has not earned a starting spot.
Yes he has arm talent. Obviously Pete likes to run run run and then throw deep. I'm sure that's why Pete wants to give him a chance, but I hold out very little hope he suddenly develops into anything useful .The earlier poster comparing this to the Geno Smith hypers from last year(here is looking at you Maelstrom) is pretty accurate.

Edit to answer post above: Drew lock has had a better line than the Seahawks. He has had a very solid receiver core with Denver and a better running game than the Seahawks. Most importantly he couldn't beat out Bridgwater. Bridgwater was terrible last year and at some points it seemed he could hardly throw. They still didn't start Lock.

 

[haroldseattle]

It's very unlikely that Lock becomes a good QB. He has the arm but lacks in all the mental aspects of being a QB. I think Charlie Whitehurst is who he reminds me of more then anyone. However he'a just a place holder until a better option is found and in the meantime the Seahawks will try to build the rest of the roster up.

 

[toffee]

I'm curious why people keep claiming he hasn't had a chance. He was beaten out by Bridgewater folks. When Denver had every reason to want Lock to start. He has been in the league 3 years now and has not earned a starting spot.
Yes he has arm talent. Obviously Pete likes to run run run and then throw deep. I'm sure that's why Pete wants to give him a chance, but I hold out very little hope he suddenly develops into anything useful .The earlier poster comparing this to the Geno Smith hypers from last year(here is looking at you Maelstrom) is pretty accurate.

Edit to answer post above: Drew lock has had a better line than the Seahawks. He has had a very solid receiver core with Denver and a better running game than the Seahawks. Most importantly he couldn't beat out Bridgwater. Bridgwater was terrible last year and at some points it seemed he could hardly throw. They still didn't start Lock.

One could rebut that Pete's advocate for run-run-run-throw deep was designed to leverage Russell Wilson strength and hide his weaknesses. Needless to say Russ wholeheartedly disagree, as the so call weakness only lived in Pete's mind. Russ even trademark "letRusdCook" to proof Pete wrong.

 

[Rosco]

I'm curious why people keep claiming he hasn't had a chance. He was beaten out by Bridgewater folks. When Denver had every reason to want Lock to start. He has been in the league 3 years now and has not earned a starting spot.
Yes he has arm talent. Obviously Pete likes to run run run and then throw deep. I'm sure that's why Pete wants to give him a chance, but I hold out very little hope he suddenly develops into anything useful .The earlier poster comparing this to the Geno Smith hypers from last year(here is looking at you Maelstrom) is pretty accurate.

Edit to answer post above: Drew lock has had a better line than the Seahawks. He has had a very solid receiver core with Denver and a better running game than the Seahawks. Most importantly he couldn't beat out Bridgwater. Bridgwater was terrible last year and at some points it seemed he could hardly throw. They still didn't start Lock.

Bridgewater was brought in to be the starter. Drew Lock even though he played just as well if not better then Bridgewater in TC was not going to be the starter. Fangio wanted his guy,Bridgewater,to start. Bridgewater was the safe pick. Fangio had a unprofessional attitude towards Lock.

 

[gmor]

I don’t think anyone feels like Lock is hands down the next franchise QB unless he proves it on the field.

But Lock makes $1.5m in a contract year. If Waldron can scheme into a Goff lite and he can compete and win the starting gig and he produces somewhere around 3500-4000 yards, 18-22 TDS, 12-15 Ints then he instantly will be one of the biggest bang for your buck QBs in the league. That’s an if, and he might not win you games in the 4th qtr, but I’d take that over Mayfield at 19 mil. Mariota at 9 mil. Etc.

I'm thinking their going to bring Geno back on the cheap to comPETE with Lock. I'm ok with it as long as they use their draft capital wisely this year and try to do something with the QB next year.
Also, taking a close look at Mayfield and seeing if he's a fit with what we're trying to do and then possibly working a Seahawks friendly deal is a prudent option to evaluate.

 

[toffee]

I'm thinking their going to bring Geno back on the cheap to comPETE with Lock. I'm ok with it as long as they use their draft capital wisely this year and try to do something with the QB next year.
Also, taking a close look at Mayfield and seeing if he's a fit with what we're trying to do and then possibly working a Seahawks friendly deal is a prudent option to evaluate.

I think they should, of course the DUI didn't help. But Geno was starting to play better after standing on the sideline for years, he could give Lock a push for starting.

 

[Throwdown]

As long as he can throw a dig, or a screen pass I think I’m ok with Lock even if he’s just average

 

[Natethegreat]

Bridgewater was brought in to be the starter. Drew Lock even though he played just as well if not better then Bridgewater in TC was not going to be the starter. Fangio wanted his guy,Bridgewater,to start. Bridgewater was the safe pick. Fangio had a unprofessional attitude towards Lock.

Yes, Fangio undermined his team and his job because of his irrational hatred of Lock. Look, I hope he turns out great, but nothing in his career, up to now, points to him being any good.
Russ took the starting job after three preseason games. Lock hasn't taken the starting role in three years. I guarantee the team that spent the draft capital that they did on him wanted him to succeed. No one was working against him and to suggest they were is silly.

 

[IndyHawk]

Lock can and will throw to the middle S/M and long.
he throws good screens and slants.
He is 6:4 with mobility..He doesn't need to hero ball it.
As long as he doesn't try to COOK he will be fine.

 

[nwHawk]

I'm curious why people keep claiming he hasn't had a chance. He was beaten out by Bridgewater folks. When Denver had every reason to want Lock to start. He has been in the league 3 years now and has not earned a starting spot.
Yes he has arm talent. Obviously Pete likes to run run run and then throw deep. I'm sure that's why Pete wants to give him a chance, but I hold out very little hope he suddenly develops into anything useful .The earlier poster comparing this to the Geno Smith hypers from last year(here is looking at you Maelstrom) is pretty accurate.

Edit to answer post above: Drew lock has had a better line than the Seahawks. He has had a very solid receiver core with Denver and a better running game than the Seahawks. Most importantly he couldn't beat out Bridgwater. Bridgwater was terrible last year and at some points it seemed he could hardly throw. They still didn't start Lock.

Many Broncos fans have said the Drew Lock had a better preseason, and played better last year than Bridgewater. BTW, that failed coaching staff was fired after the season was over.

Anyone else tired of the “they/everyone had a better offensive line than the Seahawks”. I believe the QB is a part of that equation, and Russ always got the benefit of doubt.

If the Seahawks sack rate magically drops to 4.5 - 6.5 and Denver bumps up to around 7.5-9, is it the offensive line? Possibly, but maybe the QB is creating an environment where lineman have to be perfect or else issues pop up. Seattle never had a great offensive line during Wilson’s time here, and time will tell if that follows him to Denver. I really believe it will.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Yes, Fangio undermined his team and his job because of his irrational hatred of Lock. Look, I hope he turns out great, but nothing in his career, up to now, points to him being any good.
Russ took the starting job after three preseason games. Lock hasn't taken the starting role in three years. I guarantee the team that spent the draft capital that they did on him wanted him to succeed. No one was working against him and to suggest they were is silly.

Geno did fine. Not amazing, but fine.

More importantly, Geno's well-documented flaws (namely his propensity to turn the ball over) didn't show up in his brief starting stint. He was actually efficient, after several years on the bench. This isn't even really debatable - he WAS efficient during that stretch.

Geno limits the offense in a significant way, and I don't think he can process quickly enough to be a reliable starter. But my overall point is that Carroll's teams have always put their quarterbacks in a spot that limits their downside.

For this reason, I expect Lock to perform better in Seattle than he did under a reportedly toxic atmosphere in Denver. It might not be enough to turn him into a true starter, but his floor should be significantly raised.

Classifying me as a Geno hyper for not wanting to release and execute the dude is a little dumb. My avatar probably doesn't help my case, to be fair.

 

[toffee]

Geno did fine. Not amazing, but fine.

More importantly, Geno's well-documented flaws (namely his propensity to turn the ball over) didn't show up in his brief starting stint. He was actually efficient, after several years on the bench. This isn't even really debatable - he WAS efficient during that stretch.

Geno limits the offense in a significant way, and I don't think he can process quickly enough to be a reliable starter. But my overall point is that Carroll's teams have always put their quarterbacks in a spot that limits their downside.

For this reason, I expect Lock to perform better in Seattle than he did under a reportedly toxic atmosphere in Denver. It might not be enough to turn him into a true starter, but his floor should be significantly raised.

Classifying me as a Geno hyper for not wanting to release and execute the dude is a little dumb. My avatar probably doesn't help my case, to be fair.

We don't know how well Geno could play under Waldron, he was super rusty the first couple of games, showed improvements, but Russ rushed back with a finger that needed more time to heal.

If only we could see couple more games of Geno, we could draw better opinions, right?

 

[GemCity]

Geno did fine. Not amazing, but fine.

More importantly, Geno's well-documented flaws (namely his propensity to turn the ball over) didn't show up in his brief starting stint. He was actually efficient, after several years on the bench. This isn't even really debatable - he WAS efficient during that stretch.

Geno limits the offense in a significant way, and I don't think he can process quickly enough to be a reliable starter. But my overall point is that Carroll's teams have always put their quarterbacks in a spot that limits their downside.

For this reason, I expect Lock to perform better in Seattle than he did under a reportedly toxic atmosphere in Denver. It might not be enough to turn him into a true starter, but his floor should be significantly raised.

Classifying me as a Geno hyper for not wanting to release and execute the dude is a little dumb. My avatar probably doesn't help my case, to be fair.