Are 49ers kinda getting the nod over us as SB favs...

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dunceface

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I think Kaep gets a bad rap as being one read but he needs to work on his progressions and his poise is not consistent yet
Don't try to tell me that you guys beat NE because of him
It was a sloppy game on both sides (fumbles and all) NE just played a sloppier game and STILL almost beat you guys
Kaep lucked out that his fumbles were recovered by you guys and NE played their sloppiest game in 5 years
 

NinerLifer

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RichNhansom":144sav55 said:
A few thoughts. Changing from Alex Smith to Kaep was an enormous change and had DC's starting over in week ten trying to game plan against that change. The league had 18 weeks to figure out Wilson and he only got better and better having his best game the last game he played.

We seen what Wilson did when Lynch was hurt against Atlanta. He put the team on his back and carried them to an almost amazing come from behind victory. Gore turns 30 next week, will he see a decline? What if he gets injured? Can Kaep carry his team? I believe Gore was a much bigger factor in their wins last year.

The Niners are only returning two players that caught passes from Kaep last year. They added Bold in also but everyone knows even if he plays well there, there will still be a learning curve. Right now their depth at receiver is very questionable.
Seattle is returning 4 starters at WR and added Harvin.

Kind of a pointless argument of a thread, but I can see by your replies that perhaps you guys now understand how being a "Paper Champion" is pointless.

(See Bold)
However according to you guys, PC kept the full playbook under lock and key away from RW until about week 10, when according to you guys he "emerged" as a totally different QB. So by your own words in multiple threads across this MB, RW caused DC's to start over around week 10 as well.
 

lukerguy

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Don't like being the favorite. My Blue Jays were the Vegas favorite heading into the season due to the acquisition of Melky, Dickey, Buerhle, Reyes...Ya that's not working out so far...

Being a contender adds a lot of pressure and you also get everyone's best shot.
 

scutterhawk

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nsport":2hhf2yy3 said:
I started reading this thread from the beginning and thought "nobody has talked about their groups". Glad you did - because I basically agree with you.

QB - Edge to SEA - Separation is in the preparation. CK is pretty awesome at what he does - but he was not as complete of a QB as RW was last year. That trend may continue.
Front 7 - Edge to SF - no question this might be the top ranked front 7 in football - we have built on paper would could be the best - but we don't know yet.
DB's - Edge to SEA - LOB is perhaps the most dominating in a long time in this league. Adding small fry for the slot - he is now an honorary member
OL - Edge to SF - Again, could be rated among the best in the league - we do return the entire unit - probably the first time we have said that ever in our history
RB - Edge to SEA - Beast Mode - plus BEAST DEPTH
TE - Push - VD is amazing - but they lost their 2nd on the depth chart. ZM was found in the 2nd half and really showed his value
WR - Edge to SEA - Returning unit plus a new piece is much better than adding brittle-boned dinosaurs to their unit. I don't understand why they have added aging receivers the past few years.
ST - Push - I don't see much from either team that tells me one is better than the other.
One thing I'd have to completely disagree with Volsung, and that is, Kaepernick is NOT, a better athlete than Russell Wilson, Taller?, yep
but that doesn't translate to "Better Athlete" by any stretch of the imagination.
Wilson is a more polished/complete Quarterback, that is clearly the superior savvy football player that gets it done doing it ALL in a 5'-11" frame.
Wilson has the ability to make adjustments in his play, because of his preparation, and constant vigil to changes in the field of play, THAT'S what Chuck Gruden was talking about when he gushed all about RW.
Other than that?, I pretty much agree with you nsports on your assessments between the two teams.
I think people are not giving enough notice to the sneak up from behind Rams, and Cardinals though.
It's not going to be a two horse race in the NFC WEST for too much longer.
 

Marvin49

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BlueThunder":2ze98qoz said:
to win it all in most polls or discussions I've seen because of the typical, overall anti-Seahawks league sentiment (and pro-49er sentiment), or are the 9ers actually superior to us? I look at both teams, whilst trying to keep my bias neutral (hard, I know), but when I compare us side to side, I just don't see it. I think Kaepernick will be exposed as way overrated, and I just think we're overstacked right now on both sides of the ball in an obvious Super bowl run attempt by our front office. They're going for it, hell be damned! So much will be answered and established in Week 2 at the Clink in the game of games. I think much more will be answered at the end of the season in SF. This season can't frickin' start soon enough! I actually start to physically shake in anticipation of this upcoming season. That hasn't ever happened to me since 1984! Only two months 'till training camp my friends!

To be honest, I don't see this anti-Seahawk bias you are talking about.

For a long time I'd agree with you that most of the NFl disregarded them, but they are getting a TON of pub lately (deservedly so) and have become media darlings.
 

Hawknballs

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NorCal":28efa19d said:
arguing for football's sake, I really don't know why so many of you think Kap is a first read only, read option reliant, lacking poise type of QB.

Thanks. Now you understand the way most of us feel hearing about how wilson is only a read option QB. Even though he was prolific in the pocket.
 

Marvin49

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Hawks46":1by14u4k said:
I don't see any Seahawk disrespect nationally. Not this year.

So, BlueThunder, why do you think Kaepernick will be worse this year? Why won't he get better in the passing game ? A lot of people really liked that pick coming out of Nevada, and I followed the Wolfpack a bit when I was living in NV, and he was damned good. Most pundits thought he'd make a good pro.

Keep in mind, some folks are predicting a Sophomore slump from Wilson. I personally think it's unlikely due to his godly work ethic and intangibles.

On paper:

Their OL is a lot better than ours.

Their front 7 was better than ours, but they lost Sopoaga and Francois. We gained Avril and Bennett. I know Bennett will succeed in this system, but I really don't know how Avril will do; it's speculation. Their LB corps is better than ours. Sorry, but any combination of Bowman and Willis is better than Wagner/Wright and Random player C. And I think Wagner will improve this year and be close to Willis.

Our secondary is better than theirs. By a lot. Nuff said.

Our skill positions get the slight nod. Lynch is better than Gore at this point of their respective careers. I don't know a ton about their depth, but if Michael puts out half the potential that is being projected, we'll have the best RB depth in the league. I'd give our WRs a big edge now that we have Harvin, and we have a better 2 TE set than they do, although Davis is better than Miller (Miller is a better blocker though).

We have an edge at QB although some people would say it's not much, or not at all. Funny, but neither fan base would trade our QB for theirs and vice versa. The true temper of how much that will be is this year; if both QBs improve, decline, and at what pace.

ST we have the edge.

So add it all up, and I'd say we have the slight edge. For either team to win at the other team's house, the visitor will have to be near perfect...these teams are that close. A couple bad bounces, dropped passes or untimely penalties make either team lose the game. Which team stays the healthiest will probably be the biggest factor although I think we're a deeper team. They probably have as much talent on the bench, but our depth has more experience.

Agree and disagree with segments of this...

1) Niners loast Sopoaga and Francois, but niether was that big a loss. Sopoaga was one of the worst rated DTs in the NFL last year according to PFF. Dorsey to me is an improvement there and I don't mean if he can be what he was at LSU. He'll never be that....but what he was at KC was a really good run-stuffer. Thats what he'll be called on do do here. He also had issues in KC because he was called upon to 2-gap. In the Niners 3-4, he won't be asked to do that. Tank Carradine is a huge upgrade over RJF and Dial is interesting. Another one of their front 7 weaknesses last year was depth at OLB when Parys Haralson, Darius Fleming, and Cameron Johnson were all injured. They has zero quality depth there. Thats where Corey lemier comes in. They also get all three of thos guys back.

2) I like Wagner at MLB, but I don't think he'll ever be close to Willis. That has more to do with my opinion of Willis tho than my opinion of Wagner. Bowman and Willis play in a 3-4, so their tackle stats get deluded and they more often have to take on linemen. Wagner is really good...don't get me wrong....but I think Willis and Bowman are just ridiculous.

3) No arguement on the secondary. Niners secondary better than they showed in the Playoffs (at corner anyway), but Goldson and Whitner were highly overrated. I wasn't all that upset to see Goldson go. I'm hoping Reid can be a better coverage safety than Goldson was.

4) At the skill positions.....I'd agree that Lynch is better than Gore at this point of his career. Lynch is still a monster and Gore is getting close to the end. Your depth issue is where it falls apart a bit tho. Niners are incredibly deep at RB. Behind Gore they have Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James. Kendall Was averaging 5.2 yards per carry when he got hurt and James averaged 4.6 in the regular season and 5.9 in the playoffs. Both were hugely productive college backs and are very good. They also drafted Marcus Lattimore but we probably won't see him till next year.

At WR...debatable. Crabtree really cominginto his own. Boldin a great #2. I like AJ Jenkins bouncing back this year and I like Patton in the draft. They'll also get Manningham and Williams back from innjury. Harvin is a good player, but I'm not all that worried about the other guys. I've never been a fan of Sidney Rice.

AT TE....I'm not sure where you get the idea that Miller is a better blocker than Davis since Davis is one of the best blocking TEs in the NFL. I do agree tho that losing Delanie Walker may swing this position group toward the Seahawks. I like the Niners 2nd rounder (Vance McDonald), but we'll just have to see how he develops.



I agree with your final statement. These teams are really close to each other. While peeps on here love to sing the paraises of Wilson and his work ethic, it's not like Kaep is kickin' it at home eating Ice Cream. Both of these kids work their a$$es off and thats a sign that this rivalry is gonna go on for some time.

Depth is certainly an issue. The 49ers lack of depth in the front 7 got exposed when Aldon and Justin both got hurt. There was nobody there to step in and was an emphasis in the draft. We'll just have to see how those players turn out.
 

DavidSeven

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Seahawks are #1 in ESPN's pre-season power rankings, and they were just voted as the favorites to win the NFC on NFL.com.

Who cares what people think of the 49ers? They are good team. Fine. Why is this still in the main forum?
 

Marvin49

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dunceface":1bxxk56h said:
I think Kaep gets a bad rap as being one read but he needs to work on his progressions and his poise is not consistent yet
Don't try to tell me that you guys beat NE because of him
It was a sloppy game on both sides (fumbles and all) NE just played a sloppier game and STILL almost beat you guys
Kaep lucked out that his fumbles were recovered by you guys and NE played their sloppiest game in 5 years

Well...we might think that because despite his issues handling the ball in that wet, cold weather....

...he also threw 4 TDs and had a 108.5 QB rating.

Seriously? Your going to just discount the win in NE? Come on now...lets be reasonable.
 

hawker84

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4) At the skill positions.....I'd agree that Lynch is better than Gore at this point of his career. Lynch is still a monster and Gore is getting close to the end. Your depth issue is where it falls apart a bit tho. Niners are incredibly deep at RB. Behind Gore they have Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James. Kendall Was averaging 5.2 yards per carry when he got hurt and James averaged 4.6 in the regular season and 5.9 in the playoffs. Both were hugely productive college backs and are very good. They also drafted Marcus Lattimore but we probably won't see him till next year.

this won't fly well here.. turbin and Michael are legit stars in the making.. very explosive backs.

At WR...debatable. Crabtree really cominginto his own. Boldin a great #2. I like AJ Jenkins bouncing back this year and I like Patton in the draft. They'll also get Manningham and Williams back from innjury. Harvin is a good player, but I'm not all that worried about the other guys. I've never been a fan of Sidney Rice.

Those "other" receivers you guys like to brush aside had a field day against you.. our recieving core is anything but pedestrian. adding harvin makes them one of the most dangerous in the league.. purely specualtion at this point but we'll see.
 

RichNhansom

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Marvin the only problem I have with your break down is you discredit any departed player and credit every draft pick. Kind of a rediculous homer view isn't it?

Last year all we heard was how you are returning your entire defense and they will only be better with the gained chemistry, now chemistry doesn't matter and you are better off for not returning every player? But wait there's more. Fortunately every bad player that was hurting your team came into FA at the same time. Come on are we really suppose to believe this?

I the roles were reversed you would be laughing at any Seahawk fan that did the same.
 

Marvin49

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hawker84":u6kf139u said:
4) At the skill positions.....I'd agree that Lynch is better than Gore at this point of his career. Lynch is still a monster and Gore is getting close to the end. Your depth issue is where it falls apart a bit tho. Niners are incredibly deep at RB. Behind Gore they have Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James. Kendall Was averaging 5.2 yards per carry when he got hurt and James averaged 4.6 in the regular season and 5.9 in the playoffs. Both were hugely productive college backs and are very good. They also drafted Marcus Lattimore but we probably won't see him till next year.

this won't fly well here.. turbin and Michael are legit stars in the making.. very explosive backs.

At WR...debatable. Crabtree really cominginto his own. Boldin a great #2. I like AJ Jenkins bouncing back this year and I like Patton in the draft. They'll also get Manningham and Williams back from innjury. Harvin is a good player, but I'm not all that worried about the other guys. I've never been a fan of Sidney Rice.

Those "other" receivers you guys like to brush aside had a field day against you.. our recieving core is anything but pedestrian. adding harvin makes them one of the most dangerous in the league.. purely specualtion at this point but we'll see.

...Turbin and Michael are stars in the makings...but Hunter, James and Lattimore aren't? Hrmmm.

Well...all receivers had a field day against SF in the last few games. LOL. When the Niners lost their pass rush (Aldon and Justin hurt) it exposed that they had nobody else to put consistant pressure on the QB. Thats why they took so many front 7 players in the draft.
 

Marvin49

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RichNhansom":34ms1aik said:
Marvin the only problem I have with your break down is you discredit any departed player and credit every draft pick. Kind of a rediculous homer view isn't it?

Last year all we heard was how you are returning your entire defense and they will only be better with the gained chemistry, now chemistry doesn't matter and you are better off for not returning every player? But wait there's more. Fortunately every bad player that was hurting your team came into FA at the same time. Come on are we really suppose to believe this?

I the roles were reversed you would be laughing at any Seahawk fan that did the same.

I can see how you would see it that way...but at the same time there is a reason the 49ers lost them. If they had really wanted to keep them, they could have franchised Goldson again and kept Sopoaga and RJF. The reality (in particular with Sopoaga and RJF) is that they didn't play well and weren't pursued by the team.

Goldson was a good player. There is no question...but he isn't close to as good as his reputation and wasn't worth anything close to what he got in Tampa. Earl Thomas is a far superior safety. I also said Whitner is overrated and he's still on the roster.

As for the draft picks....we have no idea what these guys are going to become...but come on...aren't you already assuming that Chrisine Michael is gonna live up to his billing? Jesse Williams? I said I liked McDonald but also said we'll see how he turns out.

I think the only guy I am guilty of assumpions here is on Carradine. I do think he'll be much better than RJF....but thats a low bar to clear. RJF is the guy that took over for Justin when he got hurt. What happened when Justin got hurt? The D almost colapsed. I wouldn't think thats an endorsement of RJFs play. Not putting it all on him, but he vanished. Lynchs first TD in the game in Seattle was right at RJF and he ran right out of the play. Pathetic.

As for Reid, I'm only HOPEFUL that he'll be better in coverage. I don't expect him to fill Goldsons shoes completely in year one. I can only hope.

You thinking I'm a homer for my opinion doesn't make the prospect of what I'm saying any less true.
 

hawker84

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...Turbin and Michael are stars in the makings...but Hunter, James and Lattimore aren't? Hrmmm.

Well...all receivers had a field day against SF in the last few games. LOL. When the Niners lost their pass rush (Aldon and Justin hurt) it exposed that they had nobody else to put consistant pressure on the QB. Thats why they took so many front 7 players in the draft.

Ah hah, never said that... You have some great young backs there as well....

It's not just Niner fans, but a lot of apposing fans boards discredits our recieving core with the exception of Harvin for whatever reason.. they didn't post huge numbers because #1 we threw the ball less than most teams if not all teams in the NFL, #2 we spread the ball around... you're going to see the same thing this season as well.. i can almost guarentee you won't see a 1000 yrd reciever on this team next year..

does this make them any less dangerous? No, just means our offense is extremely balanced at this point..
 

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Marvin49":1mfanv1j said:
hawker84":1mfanv1j said:
4) At the skill positions.....I'd agree that Lynch is better than Gore at this point of his career. Lynch is still a monster and Gore is getting close to the end. Your depth issue is where it falls apart a bit tho. Niners are incredibly deep at RB. Behind Gore they have Kendall Hunter and LaMichael James. Kendall Was averaging 5.2 yards per carry when he got hurt and James averaged 4.6 in the regular season and 5.9 in the playoffs. Both were hugely productive college backs and are very good. They also drafted Marcus Lattimore but we probably won't see him till next year.

this won't fly well here.. turbin and Michael are legit stars in the making.. very explosive backs.

At WR...debatable. Crabtree really cominginto his own. Boldin a great #2. I like AJ Jenkins bouncing back this year and I like Patton in the draft. They'll also get Manningham and Williams back from innjury. Harvin is a good player, but I'm not all that worried about the other guys. I've never been a fan of Sidney Rice.

Those "other" receivers you guys like to brush aside had a field day against you.. our recieving core is anything but pedestrian. adding harvin makes them one of the most dangerous in the league.. purely specualtion at this point but we'll see.

...Turbin and Michael are stars in the makings...but Hunter, James and Lattimore aren't? Hrmmm.

Well...all receivers had a field day against SF in the last few games. LOL. When the Niners lost their pass rush (Aldon and Justin hurt) it exposed that they had nobody else to put consistant pressure on the QB. Thats why they took so many front 7 players in the draft.
Lattimore may never be the same but it was a good risk to take regardless.
 

Hawknballs

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NinerLifer":1d4ukuiy said:
but I can see by your replies that perhaps you guys now understand how being a "Paper Champion" is pointless.

oh thank you wise 49er fan :roll:
 

hawker84

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but come on...aren't you already assuming that Chrisine Michael is gonna live up to his billing? Jesse Williams? I said I liked McDonald but also said we'll see how he turns out.

We're all hoping those two live up to there billing of course, but they're just depth at this point.. if either one or both tank this season, that will not effect our team in any way, other than loss of depth...

Now Avirl and Bennett is a differen't story.. they've got to come in and produce, especially untill Clemons comes back... if they're not productive, you will see the same results on defense as last year, getting gashed for big runs, and no pass rush..
 

Marvin49

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hawker84":363yqp16 said:
...Turbin and Michael are stars in the makings...but Hunter, James and Lattimore aren't? Hrmmm.

Well...all receivers had a field day against SF in the last few games. LOL. When the Niners lost their pass rush (Aldon and Justin hurt) it exposed that they had nobody else to put consistant pressure on the QB. Thats why they took so many front 7 players in the draft.

Ah hah, never said that... You have some great young backs there as well....

It's not just Niner fans, but a lot of opposing fans boards discredits our recieving core with the exception of Harvin for whatever reason.. they didn't post huge numbers because #1 we threw the ball less than most teams if not all teams in the NFL, #2 we spread the ball around... you're going to see the same thing this season as well.. i can almost guarentee you won't see a 1000 yrd reciever on this team next year..

does this make them any less dangerous? No, just means our offense is extremely balanced at this point..

I can say almost the exact same thing about SF...other than the spread around part.


SF is still highly run oriented and the pass to run balance is very similar to Seattle. This is just one of many similarities between these teams and what makes the debate fun.

Kaep did lean heavily on Crab when he became a starter tho. Crab had 3 100 yards games through his entire career until Kaep became the starter. He had FIVE in Kaeps 10 games as a starter. Kaep had some issues early connecting with Vernon Davis but that improved dramatically in the playoffs. It'll be interesting to see what Kaep does with Boldin as the #2 WR. The Niners #2 WR was a revolving door due to injury.
 

RichNhansom

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Please show me where I have ever promoted any of our draft picks. I haven't. I have stated repeatedly that draft picks are a crap shoot and making predictions of your team based on them is stupid.

Aaron Curry is still fresh on my mind just like Jenkins (as well as your entire 12 draft) should be fresh on yours.
 

Marvin49

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hawker84":1zqtinjj said:
but come on...aren't you already assuming that Chrisine Michael is gonna live up to his billing? Jesse Williams? I said I liked McDonald but also said we'll see how he turns out.

We're all hoping those two live up to there billing of course, but they're just depth at this point.. if either one or both tank this season, that will not effect our team in any way, other than loss of depth...

Now Avirl and Bennett is a differen't story.. they've got to come in and produce, especially untill Clemons comes back... if they're not productive, you will see the same results on defense as last year, getting gashed for big runs, and no pass rush..

With the exception of Reid....SF is essentially the same. I would love it if McDonald could come right in and be effective in those 2 TE sets, but if he isn't the Niners may employ alot more 3 WR sets and use Boldin in that "joker" role that Walker played.

Tank is depth with the hope he can eventually replace Justin Smith. He won't be a starter right away.

I think we've talked about this before but I'm dubious of Avril and Bennett. They could end up being great signings but it strikes me as odd that their teams let them get away on relatively small contracts. I know Avril played in that wide 9 alignment in Detroit. We'll have to see if they can make up for the loss of Clemons.

Joe Staley says that Aldon Smith is the best pass rusher he's ever faced...but that the combination of Clemons speed and the crowd make him the most difficult matchup every year. You guys need him back or someone who can fill that void.
 
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