Reversal of Drug Suspension

I wanted to get your take on this subject.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11471 ... uspensions

I think they should correct the NFL Drug policy to reflect its real effect on the game, while continuing to keep out cheaters. It will be interesting to see if they get this worked out. As it stands, the policy is flawed.

in before it gets moved.

I picked up Gordon in my fantasy league!!!

Yea, I was reading about this stuff yesterday. Got me thinking.

2004, Manning Causes Rule change
2014, Mainning Causes Rule change (or, sorry, EMPHISIS)

2014, One of Mannings main receivers gets suspended for 4 games, ALL OF A SUDDEN, both sides are ready to complete the HGH policy with the ability to use it retroactively and bring back Wes Welker.

Why does no one else see this disturbing trend with Manning. I mean, I know we joke about the league trying to help Manning as much as possible. But this is becoming so obvious its stupid.

What's a little annoying is that Goodell was gleefully suspending players, and then a "sacred cow" got caught (Welker) and now it is time to "fix the system with immediate haste." If someone like Brady and Manning got caught up in it, I suspect the following day all suspensions would be revoked "for the good of the game."

Also notice that the Welker news wasn't leaked whatsoever until the day before his suspension lol? The media and people in the NFL obviously knew about it, but kept their mouth's shut to protect Welker.

Blah.

huskylawyer":1slkh9fh said:

What's a little annoying is that Goodell was gleefully suspending players, and then a "sacred cow" got caught (Welker) and now it is time to "fix the system with immediate haste." If someone like Brady and Manning got caught up in it, I suspect the following day all suspensions would be revoked "for the good of the game."

Also notice that the Welker news wasn't leaked whatsoever until the day before his suspension lol? The media and people in the NFL obviously knew about it, but kept their mouth's shut to protect Welker.

Blah.

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Yea, something Steven A brought up (I know, we hate him, but it was still a good point). How in the world did Welkers looming suspension not get leaked? Everyone knows its suppose to be confidential until after appeals, but that has never once happened. Everyone knows about all suspensions way before an appeals ever happens, but somehow, this one made it through unscathed.

I never joke about Peyton he is coddled by the NFL. This will get done but not this year because what ESPN isn't saying is that the NFLPA doesn't want Goodell in the process concerning HGH testing and punishment plus the NFL wants to circumvent due process for no PED violations. So it's not just going to happen like the article is inferring.

Sounds like wishful thinking on the union's part.

Any reversal of suspension, even for non PED's would be seen as the league and Goodell losing face, especially when the season's already started.

This is something the union's going to have to bargain for in the next negotiation period, not now.

As a Saints fan, and you guys being Hawk fans, we have both had players get in hot water for drugs (though nothing materialized from the accusations), I just think its crazy how they are approaching this now. I am not saying it favors Manning, but if I were a conspiracy type, I would say it helps sell the Johnny Football story more if he can get back his wr, then you have two NFL bad boys causing all sorts of stories.

El Caliente":3p8zx6ia said:

As a Saints fan, and you guys being Hawk fans, we have both had players get in hot water for drugs (though nothing materialized from the accusations), I just think its crazy how they are approaching this now. I am not saying it favors Manning, but if I were a conspiracy type, I would say it helps sell the Johnny Football story more if he can get back his wr, then you have two NFL bad boys causing all sorts of stories.

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You're not offbase completely given they have to replace the old white guard quickly given Wilson is too short and too dark....prove it different.

huskylawyer":296mrseq said:

What's a little annoying is that Goodell was gleefully suspending players, and then a "sacred cow" got caught (Welker) and now it is time to "fix the system with immediate haste." If someone like Brady and Manning got caught up in it, I suspect the following day all suspensions would be revoked "for the good of the game."

Click to expand...

El Caliente":296mrseq said:

As a Saints fan, and you guys being Hawk fans, we have both had players get in hot water for drugs (though nothing materialized from the accusations), I just think its crazy how they are approaching this now. I am not saying it favors Manning, but if I were a conspiracy type, I would say it helps sell the Johnny Football story more if he can get back his wr, then you have two NFL bad boys causing all sorts of stories.

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For these conspiracy theories to hold any water the conspiracy has to be that the NFLPA is trying to prop up Manning or Manziel at the NFL's objection. Huh? Yeah, exactly. It doesn't make any sense.

Also, we've all spent well over a year complaining about the NFL's drug policy. Shouldn't we be celebrating that the NFLPA is going after them on it?

Popeyejones":3lum24nl said:

huskylawyer":3lum24nl said:

What's a little annoying is that Goodell was gleefully suspending players, and then a "sacred cow" got caught (Welker) and now it is time to "fix the system with immediate haste." If someone like Brady and Manning got caught up in it, I suspect the following day all suspensions would be revoked "for the good of the game."

Click to expand...

El Caliente":3lum24nl said:

As a Saints fan, and you guys being Hawk fans, we have both had players get in hot water for drugs (though nothing materialized from the accusations), I just think its crazy how they are approaching this now. I am not saying it favors Manning, but if I were a conspiracy type, I would say it helps sell the Johnny Football story more if he can get back his wr, then you have two NFL bad boys causing all sorts of stories.

Click to expand...

For these conspiracy theories to hold any water the conspiracy has to be that the NFLPA is trying to prop up Manning or Manziel at the NFL's objection. Huh? Yeah, exactly. It doesn't make any sense.

Also, we've all spent well over a year complaining about the NFL's drug policy. Shouldn't we be celebrating that the NFLPA is going after them on it?

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Nope. Both sides have been in agreement on almost all the proposed changes for two year now. The only pending one is the power Goodell has over the arbitration process.

Im going to be honest here. This is not a court of law. This is a business. Both the organizations and the players say it all the time. Your boss (Goodell is one of the bosses) is your boss. Any other job, you dont need an arbitrator when you break the rules. Your boss just decides what to do.

All this crying over Goodell with the power is annoying and stupid. All a 3rd party arbitrator would do is draw out these things. Its stupid.

Dont do dope. Stop using PEDS and all of this is of no concern. But players cant resist. And so they are looking for any loophole they can get.

Just stop risking the millions of dollars you make. Be smart and realize you are doing something that millions dream about.

Cartire":3jql3l6t said:

Nope. Both sides have been in agreement on almost all the proposed changes for two year now. The only pending one is the power Goodell has over the arbitration process.

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??

Might be worth reading the actual story. It's about the actual policy itself, not just the arbitration process.

Cartire":3q4ec55j said:

Im going to be honest here. This is not a court of law. This is a business. Both the organizations and the players say it all the time. Your boss (Goodell is one of the bosses) is your boss. Any other job, you dont need an arbitrator when you break the rules. Your boss just decides what to do.

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You're right. It's a business in which the players possess the power to collectively bargain themselves something more than giving unilateral power for fines and suspensions to the representative for the owners.

Good for them for trying to use it even if De Smith is a moron and they should fire him and see if they can steal Donald Fehr away from whatever job he's working at right now (NHLPA rep, maybe?).

Smelly McUgly":ulql76q1 said:

Cartire":ulql76q1 said:

Im going to be honest here. This is not a court of law. This is a business. Both the organizations and the players say it all the time. Your boss (Goodell is one of the bosses) is your boss. Any other job, you dont need an arbitrator when you break the rules. Your boss just decides what to do.

Click to expand...

You're right. It's a business in which the players possess the power to collectively bargain themselves something more than giving unilateral power for fines and suspensions to the representative for the owners.

Good for them for trying to use it even if De Smith is a moron and they should fire him and see if they can steal Donald Fehr away from whatever job he's working at right now (NHLPA rep, maybe?).

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Agreed.I have met Donald Fehr and he's a snake but he's both smart and a great lawyer.

Even though I have Marshall, Garçon and Cruz, just as an insurance policy, I went grab Gordon in my FFL...

:les:

Nope. Both sides have been in agreement on almost all the proposed changes for two year now. The only pending one is the power Goodell has over the arbitration process.

Im going to be honest here. This is not a court of law. This is a business. Both the organizations and the players say it all the time. Your boss (Goodell is one of the bosses) is your boss. Any other job, you dont need an arbitrator when you break the rules. Your boss just decides what to do.

All this crying over Goodell with the power is annoying and stupid. All a 3rd party arbitrator would do is draw out these things. Its stupid.

.

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Due process and fairness is stupid? Yes, it is a business, but Americans are smart enough to know that being unfair, whether in the private or public sector isn't right, hence one of the reasons Goodell is probably the most unpopular sports commissioner in the past 40 years (even more unpopular than Selig). Having Goodell make a decision, and then he is the one (or his henchmen) being the person who hears the appeal is pretty stupid. That's why Goodell is boo'd relentlessly whenever a group of fans hear him, which is pretty crazy as fans generally support ownership over the players.

I will admit that Upshaw was horrific as a union leader, and Smith isn't much better. Weakest union ever.

And one of the last sticking points is that Goodell wants to be able to suspend players for just an ARREST for DUI. Therefore you could get pulled over, arrested, and ultimately win your case, but you still get suspended? Most private businesses would at least let the person get due process before rendering a decision for a DUI.

huskylawyer":340a35yx said:

Nope. Both sides have been in agreement on almost all the proposed changes for two year now. The only pending one is the power Goodell has over the arbitration process.

Im going to be honest here. This is not a court of law. This is a business. Both the organizations and the players say it all the time. Your boss (Goodell is one of the bosses) is your boss. Any other job, you dont need an arbitrator when you break the rules. Your boss just decides what to do.

All this crying over Goodell with the power is annoying and stupid. All a 3rd party arbitrator would do is draw out these things. Its stupid.

.

Click to expand...

Due process and fairness is stupid? Yes, it is a business, but Americans are smart enough to know that being unfair, whether in the private or public sector isn't right, hence one of the reasons Goodell is probably the most unpopular sports commissioner in the past 40 years (even more unpopular than Selig). Having Goodell make a decision, and then he is the one (or his henchmen) being the person who hears the appeal is pretty stupid. That's why Goodell is boo'd relentlessly whenever a group of fans hear him, which is pretty crazy as fans generally support ownership over the players.

I will admit that Upshaw was horrific as a union leader, and Smith isn't much better. Weakest union ever.

And one of the last sticking points is that Goodell wants to be able to suspend players for just an ARREST for DUI. Therefore you could get pulled over, arrested, and ultimately win your case, but you still get suspended? Most private businesses would at least let the person get due process before rendering a decision for a DUI.

Click to expand...

Im starting to think you are not really a lawyer...

Due process? Fairness? This is a job that is heavily built on reputation. Your boss is your boss. Not a court of law. If you break the rules (which currently are agreed upon by the union via the CBA) then your boss can punish you. Thats it. If you make the NFL look bad. You can be punished. This is pretty standard business practices. Due Process? Really? Goodell is not deciding if the guy goes to jail. Hes making a decision about the CONDUCT of the player.

Honestly, this Goodell hate is getting stupid. The guy has made some mistakes, but he has also skyrocketed the popularity of the NFL. On top of which, is blamed for every single thing that every goes wrong in the NFL, when his powers are so much more limited then people even realize. He doesnt make the rules. He enforces them.

huskylawyer":3mu59r34 said:

And one of the last sticking points is that Goodell wants to be able to suspend players for just an ARREST for DUI. Therefore you could get pulled over, arrested, and ultimately win your case, but you still get suspended? Most private businesses would at least let the person get due process before rendering a decision for a DUI.

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That's why your due process is invalid. Lots of players have been suspended by Goodell even though they were never formally charged nor convicted of any crimes........Roethlessberger comes to mind.

The NFL is not a democracy, it's a single entity corporation that's VERY conscious of it's image and protecting it's brand. That's why it's commissioner has full autonomy when it comes to non drug related suspensions. If Goodell thinks you're tarnishing "the badge" by being an idiot out in public, he's going to spank you. Period.

Sounds like the "Wes Welker" rule is going to become a reality then? Gotta protect Pey Pey's one last legit shot for a ring. :34853_doh:

Cartire":3byi7djj said:

huskylawyer":3byi7djj said:

Nope. Both sides have been in agreement on almost all the proposed changes for two year now. The only pending one is the power Goodell has over the arbitration process.

Im going to be honest here. This is not a court of law. This is a business. Both the organizations and the players say it all the time. Your boss (Goodell is one of the bosses) is your boss. Any other job, you dont need an arbitrator when you break the rules. Your boss just decides what to do.

All this crying over Goodell with the power is annoying and stupid. All a 3rd party arbitrator would do is draw out these things. Its stupid.

.

Click to expand...

Due process and fairness is stupid? Yes, it is a business, but Americans are smart enough to know that being unfair, whether in the private or public sector isn't right, hence one of the reasons Goodell is probably the most unpopular sports commissioner in the past 40 years (even more unpopular than Selig). Having Goodell make a decision, and then he is the one (or his henchmen) being the person who hears the appeal is pretty stupid. That's why Goodell is boo'd relentlessly whenever a group of fans hear him, which is pretty crazy as fans generally support ownership over the players.

I will admit that Upshaw was horrific as a union leader, and Smith isn't much better. Weakest union ever.

And one of the last sticking points is that Goodell wants to be able to suspend players for just an ARREST for DUI. Therefore you could get pulled over, arrested, and ultimately win your case, but you still get suspended? Most private businesses would at least let the person get due process before rendering a decision for a DUI.

Click to expand...

Im starting to think you are not really a lawyer...

Due process? Fairness? This is a job that is heavily built on reputation. Your boss is your boss. Not a court of law. If you break the rules (which currently are agreed upon by the union via the CBA) then your boss can punish you. Thats it. If you make the NFL look bad. You can be punished. This is pretty standard business practices. Due Process? Really? Goodell is not deciding if the guy goes to jail. Hes making a decision about the CONDUCT of the player.

Honestly, this Goodell hate is getting stupid. The guy has made some mistakes, but he has also skyrocketed the popularity of the NFL. On top of which, is blamed for every single thing that every goes wrong in the NFL, when his powers are so much more limited then people even realize. He doesnt make the rules. He enforces them.

Click to expand...

Ahh...the old "you are not really a lawyer" comeback lol. Ummm....ok. UW Undergrad, Michigan Law, and co-own a law firm that does handle employment issues (if you want a resume, let me know LMAO).

Of course a business can do what it pleases within the law, but if your "boss" treats you unfairly, it impacts work conditions, and in the NFL's situation, FAN and player reaction. Fans are getting tired for Goodell's dictoator attitudes, hence the reason nearly everyone hates him. Maybe in la la land a boss can act with impunity with no consequences, but in the real world, not affording one's employee's some level of due process is NOT GOOD BUSINESS. That B-school 101 right there. Did fans tune the NFL out when Tagliabue was fairly soft on player discipline? Umm..no. The game is going to grow regardless of player discipline. Nobody says, "hmm..that guy on that team smokes weed, so I'm not gonna watch the game." The "protect the shield" argument is so overblown.

And btw, a-hole bosses aren't good bosses more often than not.

Yes, we all know Goodell can do what he wants, as the system has been collectively bargained. But now, the players are saying, "hold on..this is getting out of hand" (hence them revisiting the issue).

Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Goodell is a tyrant (not literally, you know what I mean), hence the reason he's nearly boo'd off the stage every NFL draft lol. I knew he was at Thursday's hawks game, and I was literally praying that he wouldn't get in front of the crowd to congratulate us, because he would have been boo'd lustily.

And NOBODY is disputing Goodell's RIGHT to suspend players without due process. Everyone knows that, as it is in the CBA. What people (and myself) are saying are that the rules are overboard, and Goodell has a power complex.