Stop Making Excuses for the O-Line it was BAD

falcongoggles

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The top excuses I've read so far

1. That was one of the best, if not the best, front 7s in the NFL.

A - Agreed and guess what, we play another one next week and again later in the season. The fact that our arch nemesis, the 49ers, has a similarly built front 7 and we let ourselves get exposed by Carolinas is cause for alarm. If you roll the Rams into this conversation, that is 5 times out of the 16 games that we are going to play strong front 4/7s. If I'm a coach, I should probably address that.

2. Russell Wilson held onto the ball too long, it is his fault.

A - Yes he did hold onto the ball too long at times. Other times someone was running around Giacomini, blowing Unger backwards or laughing at how slow Carpenter was. There is blame to be shared, but people who are unwilling to put any of this on the O-line are crazy. Also, people who are rebutting that RW held onto the ball too long go on to post in another thread that he played an incredible game.

3. I watch the draft and there was no one available.

We rotated multiple undrafted, released defensive lineman through here this offseason, why wouldn't you do the same with the offensive line? If we can find Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse and convert Sweezy from defense to offense, I'm sure we can bring some guys in here to compete as the mantra goes.

3. We didn't draft any O-linemen because that would have broken up the continuity of the starting unit.

A - See above with bringing in competition and finding gems. We are one injury away on this line from very large holes.

4. My DVR says otherwise.

A - If your DVR tells you that today went well, then you need to unplug your DVR and throw it out of a window. These guys are just not passing the eyeball test, period.


Last season our pass protection was a weakness and when we didn't address it in the draft people continued to grouse. This game our pass protection got exposed AGAIN and the people who express unhappy with this are roundly ridiculed by the "brain trust" on here.

Did you listen to the announcers that watched a ton of our games and are regarded as rather knowledgeable by the "brain trust" on this forum? They said pass protection was an issue for this team at the end of the season, they had never seen RW hit so much in all the games they covered (including the six sack Rams game) and that pass protection continues to be a problem.

So I ask again, why all the hostility when people criticize our pass protection?
 

volsunghawk

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falcongoggles":tg3pz5yo said:
3. We didn't draft any O-linemen because that would have broken up the continuity of the starting unit.

A - See above with bringing in competition and finding gems. We are one injury away on this line from very large holes.

Psst. We did that, kemosabe. We brought in guys, had them compete, and several made the team. Bailey and Bowie both look to be guys who can contribute. What, do the guys we bring in have to be high draft picks to count as "addressing the line"? And don't undersell continuity on the O-line. It's hugely important. You don't just go replacing players constantly in a unit that works best when it's acting as a single entity.

falcongoggles":tg3pz5yo said:
So I ask again, why all the hostility when people criticize our pass protection?

I'm gonna guess it's related to the idea that instead of saying, "We had a lot of protection and blocking issues yesterday against a very good front 7, and that's a concern. Here are my ideas on how to address that against SF next week. What do you all think?" or something like that, we are instead seeing, "WHY DID THE FO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE O-LINE WHEN EVERYONE KNEW IT WAS AWFUL?!?!11?! WHY DIDN'T WE DRAFT ALL NEW OL WITH ALL OF OUR PICKS?!?1/!?1 WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!!"

Hyperbole and bitching for bitching's sake don't usually generate the most positive responses here.
 

Cartire

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The line was bad. Mostly at the Guard positions.

That being said, it wasnt as horrible as everyone is saying. I think a few broken protections and not being able to get any push during the run game was cemented into everyones head.

Play calling was also suspect. I was in a house with 10 other fans, and I yelled 6 times at children, when I saw the D-Line audible to stop the run. And they new every time exactly which way we were running. I got really mad that it was that easy for them to see what we were doing. We need to cover up these plays a bit better.
 

HawkMeat

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CurryStopstheRuns":24n9f1wu said:
Did this need another thread? Attention grab?
Yeah, thought I read a thread about the line already. I so want to hear how the FO needs to address the line with more first round picks. Pssft. Line needs continuity, and to state the Panthers from line is an excuse is giving no credit to how well the Panthers defense played. The o'line needs work, but do we need to drag the horse out to beat?
 

Hawknight

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falcongoggles":638iq2vc said:
The top excuses I've read so far

1. That was one of the best, if not the best, front 7s in the NFL.

A - Agreed and guess what, we play another one next week and again later in the season. The fact that our arch nemesis, the 49ers, has a similarly built front 7 and we let ourselves get exposed by Carolinas is cause for alarm. If you roll the Rams into this conversation, that is 5 times out of the 16 games that we are going to play strong front 4/7s. If I'm a coach, I should probably address that.

2. Russell Wilson held onto the ball too long, it is his fault.

A - Yes he did hold onto the ball too long at times. Other times someone was running around Giacomini, blowing Unger backwards or laughing at how slow Carpenter was. There is blame to be shared, but people who are unwilling to put any of this on the O-line are crazy. Also, people who are rebutting that RW held onto the ball too long go on to post in another thread that he played an incredible game.

3. I watch the draft and there was no one available.

We rotated multiple undrafted, released defensive lineman through here this offseason, why wouldn't you do the same with the offensive line? If we can find Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse and convert Sweezy from defense to offense, I'm sure we can bring some guys in here to compete as the mantra goes.

3. We didn't draft any O-linemen because that would have broken up the continuity of the starting unit.

A - See above with bringing in competition and finding gems. We are one injury away on this line from very large holes.

4. My DVR says otherwise.

A - If your DVR tells you that today went well, then you need to unplug your DVR and throw it out of a window. These guys are just not passing the eyeball test, period.


Last season our pass protection was a weakness and when we didn't address it in the draft people continued to grouse. This game our pass protection got exposed AGAIN and the people who express unhappy with this are roundly ridiculed by the "brain trust" on here.

Did you listen to the announcers that watched a ton of our games and are regarded as rather knowledgeable by the "brain trust" on this forum? They said pass protection was an issue for this team at the end of the season, they had never seen RW hit so much in all the games they covered (including the six sack Rams game) and that pass protection continues to be a problem.

So I ask again, why all the hostility when people criticize our pass protection?

Not worried...last year we started with a loss against ARIZONA if I remember right, look how that season turned out behind a rookie QB........This year, we started with a win, an ugly win yes, but still a win. I see good things coming, not running for cover because of the start of one mediocre game. Also, on the road, in the heat, and knocking that 10 am monkey off of our back...I think we did just fine. Now get rid of those stinking penalties and we'll be in great shape. I think penalties is the new monkey on our back now.
 

HawkMeat

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Numerous penalties is the concern if I were to pick one. One drive the Hawks gave up two huge penalties to equate to 30 yards handed to the Panthers. Ouch.
 

Mtjhoyas

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The OL play was poor and outside of a few teams, OL play is extremely spotty in the NFL. Defenders are far more physically talented/athletic than their offensive counterparts...because, that's where everybody is putting their athletes these days! There's such a huge emphasis on getting to the passer nowadays.

Is this an excuse? Nah. I'm just recognizing that outside of a few teams (maybe 2 or 3), every team has big struggles because there are just not enough athletes available, hence this FO trying to convert athletic DL into OL (Sweazy, Smith).

Arbitrarily throwing high round picks at the OL is not foolproof...at all. James Carpenter, John Moffit...how about the rest of that draft? Name the world beaters that were available in the 20s? Sherrod? How about Carimi? Fast forward to 2 years ago, remember Steve Hutchison Jr (David DeCastro)?

I totally understand the frustration, but there's this myth out there that a) you need All-Pros at every spot on the line, and b) just throw high round picks there because they don't bust like other positions. Yes, it's tough having SF in the same division with their OL play. They hit the draft lottery at 3 spots with Staley, Davis, and Iupati. That's very rare. What I don't want SEA to do, is to simply draft OL in round 1 or 2, because they "need" better OL play. If they feel a guy is talented enough to warrant the pick, then draft him. If not, pick a better player at a different position.
 

Hawknballs

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There are no excuses, it was bad.

The front 7 for Carolina is really good though. That's not an 'excuse'. Just a fact.

I said this last year as well and it turned out to be true as the year went on - the O-line is one of those units that takes time to 'gel' more than any other on the field. It's important for each guy to know the tendencies of the guy next to him, and he, the guy next to him, so on down the line. Think of the O-line has a hand with five fingers. if they are all acting independently then the results will be poor. But more time spent playing together will result in more cohesiveness. Right now you have carpenter and sweezy in there, two guys who were in and out of the lineup last year (or I suppose in carps case, in and then out for the year). So that means every guy on the line is playing next to a guy that he isn't quite able to know the tendencies of, and trust fully.

Once they have some time to play together and build expectation and trust they should get it sorted out.

All that being said it was not pretty.

However that bad game has a silver lining - our QB that everyone said is too small who only has one season under his belt dealt with it and won the game for us anyways, only made one significant mistake, and otherwise showed that last year wasn't a fluke right out of the gate.

There are questions about the O-line but if anyone still wasn't sure about Wilson, watch that game again and watch him deal with the pressure like an elite QB.
 

BlueTalons

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One thing I kept hearing in the broadcasts is that Carp was flat out GASSED in that game with the heat and humidity that North Carolina has. But I think overall, their D wore themselves out for the first 3 quarters by going all out at 110%. It's a marathon not a sprint!
 

HawkFan72

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Yes they looked bad, but frankly, it is to be expected.

Many of us said BEFORE the game that this game would be ugly, the Offense would start out slow, it would be low scoring, and that people would be overreacting and saying how bad the Offense looked afterwards.

Congrats on being one of the ones overreacting to a struggling Offense in week 1. They do it every year, and yet there are always people on here who freak out.
 

davidonmi

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Not making excuses, I have said they were terrible but u do need to give some credit still. SF's front 4 is nothing like Carolina's, that said they need to play better
 

Sarlacc83

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Reason 1: 90 degree heat, high humidity

I'm sure that doesn't play a part.

Reason 2: On the road. Even though Carolina isn't that loud, it's still harder to get the line calls out than at home, I'm sure.

Reason 3: Really, really good D-line play: Why does everyone on this board dismiss the other team all the goram time? If Seattle did the same to the Panthers, everyone would crow about how great we are. There are 2 teams on the field. Give the other one some credit once in awhile.

Reason 4: 10AM start. What a surprise, our team played better after the clock struck 12PM Pacific.

Reason 5: It was gotdamn 90 degrees!
 
A

Anonymous

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Having managed a variety of folks over the last 12 or so years in this heat and moisture, we try to stay in the shade as much as possible. Even with plenty of water, the right cover and clothing, and a lot of mini-breaks, the guys weighing over 250 start running out of gas a lot faster than the others. Parts and supplies feel heavier, and there is a lot of time spent soaking-up sweat. Now, they are going to sweat in any climate (except Lambeau maybe) but I'm telling you that we all try to avoid having to mow the lawn in the afternoons here, at all cost, for very good reason.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that being in all that protective gear, and with that helmet on and being winded, those O-linemen (however conditioned) were already in a world of turmoil before Keuchly and company started pushing them around. I don't want it to be a factor, or sound like an excuse, but I believe atmospheric conditions played a large role in yesterday's game for the Linemen.

Get them boys back in the cool, fresh, Clink and see how they do.
 

TwistedHusky

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This line is not built to pass protect.

The coaches made a decision based on the resources they had available.

Our pass protection is predicated on the run game. We beat on the other team with the run, this forces the opposing team to commit defenders closer to the line and slows down the rush (who cannot peel toward the QB because the RB will just run past). This keeps people off Wilson.

The problem is if you stuff the run (as Carolina was doing), then it also hurts your passing game - because Seattle without a run game hurts both sides of the ball. We made a strategic decision to get rid of Moffitt to make it harder to stuff the run, I don't agree with it but I understand it. So now pass protection is going to be worse because besides Okung and Unger we really don't have guys in there that can reliably pass protect.

The problem as I see it is this make it harder for us to unleash Wilson. Wilson might be our best player but I think our most important player is still Lynch for this reason.

The line is a problem. It will continue to be a problem. I don't know there is much more they can do considering the decisions that have already been made though.
 

bestfightstory

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HoustonHawk82":2xdymakh said:
Having managed a variety of folks over the last 12 or so years in this heat and moisture, we try to stay in the shade as much as possible. Even with plenty of water, the right cover and clothing, and a lot of mini-breaks, the guys weighing over 250 start running out of gas a lot faster than the others. Parts and supplies feel heavier, and there is a lot of time spent soaking-up sweat. Now, they are going to sweat in any climate (except Lambeau maybe) but I'm telling you that we all try to avoid having to mow the lawn in the afternoons here, at all cost, for very good reason.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that being in all that protective gear, and with that helmet on and being winded, those O-linemen (however conditioned) were already in a world of turmoil before Keuchly and company started pushing them around. I don't want it to be a factor, or sound like an excuse, but I believe atmospheric conditions played a large role in yesterday's game for the Linemen.

Get them boys back in the cool, fresh, Clink and see how they do.

Well said.

How you can be so clear minded about this yet so blind to the effects of body clock and jet lag is a mystery to me. They are related in terms of the body's acclimatization to environment.
 
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