Stop Making Excuses for the O-Line it was BAD

[Laloosh]

Hyperbole and bitching for bitching's sake don't usually generate the most positive responses here.

Is this your way of telling me I shouldn't post?

/damnit

 

[SalishHawkFan]

3. We didn't draft any O-linemen because that would have broken up the continuity of the starting unit.

A - See above with bringing in competition and finding gems. We are one injury away on this line from very large holes.

Psst. We did that, kemosabe. We brought in guys, had them compete, and several made the team. Bailey and Bowie both look to be guys who can contribute. What, do the guys we bring in have to be high draft picks to count as "addressing the line"? And don't undersell continuity on the O-line. It's hugely important. You don't just go replacing players constantly in a unit that works best when it's acting as a single entity.

So I ask again, why all the hostility when people criticize our pass protection?

I'm gonna guess it's related to the idea that instead of saying, "We had a lot of protection and blocking issues yesterday against a very good front 7, and that's a concern. Here are my ideas on how to address that against SF next week. What do you all think?" or something like that, we are instead seeing, "WHY DID THE FO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE O-LINE WHEN EVERYONE KNEW IT WAS AWFUL?!?!11?! WHY DIDN'T WE DRAFT ALL NEW OL WITH ALL OF OUR PICKS?!?1/!?1 WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!!"

Hyperbole and bitching for bitching's sake don't usually generate the most positive responses here.

That's a BS answer. The OP's idea of what to do to fix the Oline is clear: UPGRADE THE OLINE DURING THE OFFSEASON!!!

There may not be any other option. In fact, there IS no other option besides the guys we have better play better, because the schemes, the plays, the coaching - it's all there. This is on THEM. No amount of "do this differently, do that differently" is going to "fix" this. They play better or Pete gets better players.

And no, the guys we brought in haven't improved the oline, that was obvious yesterday.

You want to make a valid argument to the OP? Point out it's one game, the 10am start, the heat. All those factors may well be more meaningful and it's too soon to panic that the oline sucks.

 

[volsunghawk]

3. We didn't draft any O-linemen because that would have broken up the continuity of the starting unit.

A - See above with bringing in competition and finding gems. We are one injury away on this line from very large holes.

Psst. We did that, kemosabe. We brought in guys, had them compete, and several made the team. Bailey and Bowie both look to be guys who can contribute. What, do the guys we bring in have to be high draft picks to count as "addressing the line"? And don't undersell continuity on the O-line. It's hugely important. You don't just go replacing players constantly in a unit that works best when it's acting as a single entity.

So I ask again, why all the hostility when people criticize our pass protection?

I'm gonna guess it's related to the idea that instead of saying, "We had a lot of protection and blocking issues yesterday against a very good front 7, and that's a concern. Here are my ideas on how to address that against SF next week. What do you all think?" or something like that, we are instead seeing, "WHY DID THE FO COMPLETELY IGNORE THE O-LINE WHEN EVERYONE KNEW IT WAS AWFUL?!?!11?! WHY DIDN'T WE DRAFT ALL NEW OL WITH ALL OF OUR PICKS?!?1/!?1 WE'RE ALL DOOMED!!!!!"

Hyperbole and bitching for bitching's sake don't usually generate the most positive responses here.

That's a BS answer. The OP's idea of what to do to fix the Oline is clear: UPGRADE THE OLINE DURING THE OFFSEASON!!!

There may not be any other option. In fact, there IS no other option besides the guys we have better play better, because the schemes, the plays, the coaching - it's all there. This is on THEM. No amount of "do this differently, do that differently" is going to "fix" this. They play better or Pete gets better players.

And no, the guys we brought in haven't improved the oline, that was obvious yesterday.

You want to make a valid argument to the OP? Point out it's one game, the 10am start, the heat. All those factors may well be more meaningful and it's too soon to panic that the oline sucks.

That's all been pointed out, and the OP has called those "excuses."

As for your "UPGRADE THE OLINE DURING THE OFFSEASON!!!" garbage, how is that done? Just throwing bodies in there? How's that working for Jacksonville? As has been pointed out TIME AND AGAIN on these very boards, a good O-line requires time to gel, to achieve a cohesiveness that allows those 5 guys to work together seamlessly. Our line doesn't quite have that yet, and it won't achieve it by just plugging new guys in every offseason until the jackholes here are satisfied (which they will NEVER be).

 

[Sarlacc83]

Our line doesn't quite have that yet, and it won't achieve it by just plugging new guys in every offseason until the jackholes here are satisfied (which they will NEVER be).

Untrue. The Jackholes hold up the 2005 line as the bastion of any o-line ever. In retrospect.

 

[hawkfannj]

Hate to bring this to your attention but the homers are out in force stating how awesome we did yesterday . Here is a fact we were not " elite " yesterday and this whole off season was how big and bad we are . We play that way against the niners . They will spank us that is a fact . So they didn't have much of a run game that GB took all off season to stop they killed them with the pass elite teams do just that. This week will say a lot about our team how we handle IMHO a better team than ours.

 

[SoHo9erFan]

It was the first game of the season. For some reason, the OLine usually is the last unit on a football team to get back into rhythm. I wouldn't think much of it unless the play continues Week 3 or 4.

 

[Mtjhoyas]

Hate to bring this to your attention but the homers are out in force stating how awesome we did yesterday . Here is a fact we were not " elite " yesterday and this whole off season was how big and bad we are . We play that way against the niners . They will spank us that is a fact . So they didn't have much of a run game that GB took all off season to stop they killed them with the pass elite teams do just that. This week will say a lot about our team how we handle IMHO a better team than ours.

You can have an "awesome win," without playing "awesome." Pretty big difference. Good teams win when they are struggling in adverse situations. I'm not sugar coating a poor performance, but it was in fact a very good win.

Secondly, SF beat GB by 6 at home. Let's not act like they beat them 42-0. A blown call goes in favor of SF also giving them a 4 point swing. SF looked good, but let's not pretend they destroyed GB, because they didn't.

Yes, SEA absolutely have to play better...but good teams do what we did. Win ugly (yes it's cliche).

 

[justafan]

I think just about every team is tired of the hype and is going to get amped up when they play us, especially the niners.Our Oline has to match that intensity and yesterday was a wake up call for them I think.I expect a huge improvement for the rest of the season starting next week.
agreed about the winning without playing your best.I think we would have lost that game last year.

 

[Hawks46]

The line was bad. Mostly at the Guard positions.

That being said, it wasnt as horrible as everyone is saying. I think a few broken protections and not being able to get any push during the run game was cemented into everyones head.

Play calling was also suspect. I was in a house with 10 other fans, and I yelled 6 times at children, when I saw the D-Line audible to stop the run. And they new every time exactly which way we were running. I got really mad that it was that easy for them to see what we were doing. We need to cover up these plays a bit better.

You see, here I agree. Big time.

I don't know if they aren't letting Wilson audible out of plays, but there were at least half a dozen times we ran right into a run blitz. I'm not an NFL caliber QB, but I saw it coming; it wasn't disguised well. If they do let him audible out, he needs to start doing it.

I like the power run game, but we don't have the atheletes up front to absolutely dominate teams at the LOS. Hell, SF is regarded at having the best OL in the entire game, and they couldn't run on GB, who was terrible against the run last year. It's hard to run plays in the NFL when the other team knows it's coming. Even just getting a guy to guess the wrong gap, or over run a play by a step or two with misdirection is enough to get that crease or cut back lane and get good yardage.

SF has a great OL, but everyone just assumed they man up and maul guys backwards. There is a TON of misdirection, traps, pulls, etc. to their game. They disguise formations and do variable things out of the same formations as well as anyone in the league, and they might be the best at it.

Our OL is athletically average. I'd say they're above average to good in talent (Okung and Unger bring that scale up), so we're not going to dominate people when they know it's coming.....unless:

We get them tired and get them on their heels, like we did last year.

 

[hawkfannj]

Hate to bring this to your attention but the homers are out in force stating how awesome we did yesterday . Here is a fact we were not " elite " yesterday and this whole off season was how big and bad we are . We play that way against the niners . They will spank us that is a fact . So they didn't have much of a run game that GB took all off season to stop they killed them with the pass elite teams do just that. This week will say a lot about our team how we handle IMHO a better team than ours.

You can have an "awesome win," without playing "awesome." Pretty big difference. Good teams win when they are struggling in adverse situations. I'm not sugar coating a poor performance, but it was in fact a very good win.

Secondly, SF beat GB by 6 at home. Let's not act like they beat them 42-0. A blown call goes in favor of SF also giving them a 4 point swing. SF looked good, but let's not pretend they destroyed GB, because they didn't.

Yes, SEA absolutely have to play better...but good teams do what we did. Win ugly (yes it's cliche).

I do agree winning ugly is something good teams do sometimes.
But we play the niners like that .once again ill say IF WE PLAY LIKE WE DID this Sunday we will lose . This is not Carolina the niners right now are the best on the league backing up all their hype so far . I'd like to see is do just that as well.
Greenbay is head and shoulders better than Carolina and the niners we in control from the start of their game . It took a D Williams fumble on his way to the end zone to acualy squeak out a win .

 

[Perfundle]

Hate to bring this to your attention but the homers are out in force stating how awesome we did yesterday . Here is a fact we were not " elite " yesterday and this whole off season was how big and bad we are . We play that way against the niners . They will spank us that is a fact . So they didn't have much of a run game that GB took all off season to stop they killed them with the pass elite teams do just that. This week will say a lot about our team how we handle IMHO a better team than ours.

You mean, play in a way that caused a 250-yard average (for both his years) QB to throw for half that despite missing Browner? I'm glad you're telling off the zero people that have claimed the Seahawks were "awesome" yesterday.

 

[getnasty]

Outside of Unger and Okung our Oline is average at best. You couple that with all the issues that everyone is talking about and they're not going to look great. Look at last year against Arizona, Oline looked bad, Marshawn doesn't get 100 rushing yards, people where freaking out. How did they end the year? It's game one, we'll be fine, give it some time. Everyone keep one thing in mind, we have Russell Wilson and everything will be ok.

 

[SalishHawkFan]

We're not going to lose to the 49ers this week. Kaps biggest weakness is he's slow to get the plays in and barely gets the play off on time. He'll be a mess after our crowd noise takes him out. That certainly isn't my concern about our oline. Pass pro is my biggest concern. As has been said already, the FO made a choice to build a run blocking oline and go with a mobile QB. So we sacrifice some pass pro in order to get greater run blocking. Problem is, we seem to have sacrificed way too much pass pro. Wilson did great. He was on fire, but as some have said, he makes it look heroic. Well, it's not so much him making it look heroic, as he actually has to BE heroic because he sure as crap aint getting a lot of protection back there. And while the guy has the skills to throw for 300 yards while under pressure all day, it's only a matter of time before we see TJack out there because the oline caused Wilson to get too banged up. Add to that that this run first oline can't dominate the trenches on running plays and we have a serious obstacle to overcome.

In 2005 there were some great front 7's. None of them could stop the Hawks running game. That oline could pass pro AND run block.

The only answer to our conundrum is Wilson has to learn to make those quick throws. He has to make the reads and our receivers have to get open early.

None of this will really matter vs most of our opponents, but it is something we need to improve on.

 

[jammerhawk]

Yeah OK, they could have been better but you have to factor in that Carolina's DLine is pretty talented. That DLine might be the best the hawks face all season.

 

[sutz]

"Logic" 101

1. Label all contrarian objections 'excuses.'

2. Lambaste all such 'excuses' as...well....excuses. Denigrate all purveyors of such tripe.

3. Lather, rinse, repeat.

 

[Don Sowell]

But we play the niners like that .once again ill say IF WE PLAY LIKE WE DID this Sunday we will lose . This is not Carolina the niners right now are the best on the league backing up all their hype so far . I'd like to see is do just that as well.
Greenbay is head and shoulders better than Carolina and the niners we in control from the start of their game . It took a D Williams fumble on his way to the end zone to acualy squeak out a win .

I disagree. The Hawks just played Carolina exactly the same way they played them last year. A low scoring, defensive struggle. There was even a small late game comeback for the Hawks and a mirror image defensive stop deep in our territory.

I don't recall any sky is falling predictions after that game. It was more like we finally proved we could win on the road.

That team tore apart San Fran at home. If we just saw the Seahawks match up the same way against Carolina, it stands to reason that we'll match up the same against the Niners as we did last year. Even giving back a couple of TDs for plays that probably won't repeat themselves, such as the blocked field goal, we still win going away.

 

[jammerhawk]

Yeah OK, they could have been better but you have to factor in that Carolina's DLine is pretty talented. That DLine might be the best the hawks face all season.

 

[sutz]

IMHO, comparing a Niners win at home against a Seahawks win on the road is apples and oranges.

As to the 'if we play that bad we'll lose' argument. We won't and we won't.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

They were brutal for almost 3 quarters, and solid in the 4th. They'll get it figured out.

I agree.

+2, and as Sarlacc83 said, not surprisingly the line play improved around noon Pacific time. My buddy said the same thing on the phone yesterday and I agree with you both.

The other thing to keep in mind the draft where the Hawks took Carp and Moffitt was the one that was likely going to be the one that solidified the o-line for the next 10 years in the minds of JS, PC and Cable after having already drafted Okung and moved Unger to his correct position. Unfortunately, at this point it would appear that may not be the case. These guys know a bit about football and they can certainly see what issues there are with the line better than most if not all of us. I won't be at all surprised to see at least one high draft choice being used on an o-lineman next April.

 

[scutterhawk]

The top excuses I've read so far

1. That was one of the best, if not the best, front 7s in the NFL.

A - Agreed and guess what, we play another one next week and again later in the season. The fact that our arch nemesis, the 49ers, has a similarly built front 7 and we let ourselves get exposed by Carolinas is cause for alarm. If you roll the Rams into this conversation, that is 5 times out of the 16 games that we are going to play strong front 4/7s. If I'm a coach, I should probably address that.

2. Russell Wilson held onto the ball too long, it is his fault.

A - Yes he did hold onto the ball too long at times. Other times someone was running around Giacomini, blowing Unger backwards or laughing at how slow Carpenter was. There is blame to be shared, but people who are unwilling to put any of this on the O-line are crazy. Also, people who are rebutting that RW held onto the ball too long go on to post in another thread that he played an incredible game.

3. I watch the draft and there was no one available.

We rotated multiple undrafted, released defensive lineman through here this offseason, why wouldn't you do the same with the offensive line? If we can find Doug Baldwin and Jermaine Kearse and convert Sweezy from defense to offense, I'm sure we can bring some guys in here to compete as the mantra goes.

3. We didn't draft any O-linemen because that would have broken up the continuity of the starting unit.

A - See above with bringing in competition and finding gems. We are one injury away on this line from very large holes.

4. My DVR says otherwise.

A - If your DVR tells you that today went well, then you need to unplug your DVR and throw it out of a window. These guys are just not passing the eyeball test, period.


Last season our pass protection was a weakness and when we didn't address it in the draft people continued to grouse. This game our pass protection got exposed AGAIN and the people who express unhappy with this are roundly ridiculed by the "brain trust" on here.

Did you listen to the announcers that watched a ton of our games and are regarded as rather knowledgeable by the "brain trust" on this forum? They said pass protection was an issue for this team at the end of the season, they had never seen RW hit so much in all the games they covered (including the six sack Rams game) and that pass protection continues to be a problem.

So I ask again, why all the hostility when people criticize our pass protection?

Holy Shit!, can you even imagine what this thread would have been like had we not -WON- this game?
Yes Fangoggles, we WON!, WE WON!!
I think you need to think of something else to snivel and cry over, rather than try'n put down your fellow Seahawks fans for not jumping on your Debby Downer band wagon, (and again) please take into account, WE WON!

I'm going to chose to be happy about our victory ,and let PC & Co. worry about making all the adjustments to face the 49rs this week @ the CLINK.