Bevell defenders, anyone, please explain this to me

hawknation2015 · Oct 19, 2015

This was one of the penultimate plays of the upset loss. The first of two consecutive three-and-outs, after being up 23-14, that allowed Carolina the opportunity to get back in the game. It was 3rd and 5 . . . a first down allows us to drain more time off the clock and perhaps get in scoring range to pad the lead. Russell throws the ball to Jimmy Graham, who is running a quick out route. My question is, why does this play call for Graham to cut on the route three yards short of the first down line? We need to get to the 40 to keep the chains moving and win the game. It makes no sense to me, as not only would Graham have to complete the reception, but he would also need to break a tackle, avoid the sideline, and gain three yards after the catch for the first down. That seems like a low probability play on a 3rd and 5.

MontanaHawk05 · Oct 19, 2015

It's their typical rub route concept. Played well by the Carolina defender, possibly because we run it way too much.

hawknation2015 · Oct 20, 2015

I'm going to harp on this again. If they would just line up Graham at Split End, he would be able to get upfield along the sideline much quicker. Having him run cut three yards shy of the first down marker makes no sense in this situation.

It's one in a series of events which cost us this game.

Laloosh · Oct 20, 2015

hawknation2015":2gkzn5w3 said:
I'm going to harp on this again. If they would just line up Graham at Split End, he would be able to get upfield along the sideline much quicker. Having him run cut three yards shy of the first down marker makes no sense in this situation.

It's one in a series of events which cost us this game.

Or move him outside and let he and Lockett swap routes on that play. You'd get 2 mismatches and both routes would have a better chance of success. Lockett can easily beat the LB to the outside and Jimmy could run the route across the middle.

hawknation2015 · Oct 20, 2015

Laloosh":3btjlmzq said:
hawknation2015":3btjlmzq said:

I'm going to harp on this again. If they would just line up Graham at Split End, he would be able to get upfield along the sideline much quicker. Having him run cut three yards shy of the first down marker makes no sense in this situation.

It's one in a series of events which cost us this game.

Click to expand...

Or move him outside and let he and Lockett swap routes on that play. You'd get 2 mismatches and both routes would have a better chance of success. Lockett can easily beat the LB to the outside and Jimmy could run the route across the middle.

Absolutely. Lockett gives you more quickness and elusiveness to gain those three yards after the catch. Meanwhile, Graham gives you the size mismatch against a defensive back.

DavidSeven · Oct 20, 2015

Probably because you're expecting Davis to play him at the sticks, so you throw underneath and hope Graham can make a play for the extra yardage. Or maybe Lockett was a target, but the pass rush dictated a quicker throw to Graham.

Or we can just assume everyone is incompetent and fully intended for this play to go only three yards. That fits the agenda nicely.

hawknation2015 · Oct 20, 2015

DavidSeven":j48kgd1p said:
Probably because you're expecting Davis to play him at the sticks, so you throw underneath and hope Graham can make a play for the extra yardage. Or maybe Lockett was a target, but the pass rush dictated a quicker throw to Graham.

Or we can just assume everyone is incompetent and fully intended for this play to go only three yards. That fits the agenda nicely.

HOPE and a prayer would be a good name for Bevell's play calling style.

Laloosh · Oct 20, 2015

DavidSeven":243q0dnj said:
Probably because you're expecting Davis to play him at the sticks, so you throw underneath and hope Graham can make a play for the extra yardage. Or maybe Lockett was a target, but the pass rush dictated a quicker throw to Graham.

Or we can just assume everyone is incompetent and fully intended for this play to go only three yards. That fits the agenda nicely.

I'm not out to get anybody. I just don't see much of us exploiting a particular defender from one down to the next (or when we really need to convert).

SalishHawkFan · Oct 20, 2015

hawknation2015":1svnkdel said:
This was one of the penultimate plays of the upset loss. The first of two consecutive three-and-outs, after being up 23-14, that allowed Carolina the opportunity to get back in the game. It was 3rd and 5 . . . a first down allows us to drain more time off the clock and perhaps get in scoring range to pad the lead. Russell throws the ball to Jimmy Graham, who is running a quick out route. My question is, why does this play call for Graham to cut on the route three yards short of the first down line? We need to get to the 40 to keep the chains moving and win the game. It makes no sense to me, as not only would Graham have to complete the reception, but he would also need to break a tackle, avoid the sideline, and gain three yards after the catch for the first down. That seems like a low probability play on a 3rd and 5.

What I think you see here is the rookie Lockett not picking Graham's defender. If he impedes him at all, Graham gets the first down.

And yes, as another poster already pointed out, it would seem like that play would work waaaaayyyyyy better if Lockett and Graham switched positions and speedy Lockett shot outside while very large Graham impeded Lockett's defender.

hawknation2015 · Oct 20, 2015

SalishHawkFan":3f0ymtw2 said:
hawknation2015":3f0ymtw2 said:

This was one of the penultimate plays of the upset loss. The first of two consecutive three-and-outs, after being up 23-14, that allowed Carolina the opportunity to get back in the game. It was 3rd and 5 . . . a first down allows us to drain more time off the clock and perhaps get in scoring range to pad the lead. Russell throws the ball to Jimmy Graham, who is running a quick out route. My question is, why does this play call for Graham to cut on the route three yards short of the first down line? We need to get to the 40 to keep the chains moving and win the game. It makes no sense to me, as not only would Graham have to complete the reception, but he would also need to break a tackle, avoid the sideline, and gain three yards after the catch for the first down. That seems like a low probability play on a 3rd and 5.

Click to expand...

What I think you see here is the rookie Lockett not picking Graham's defender. If he impedes him at all, Graham gets the first down.

Even if Lockett runs into the defender, and offensive PI isn't called, it's still a big assumption that Graham would have been able to gain those three yards after the catch.

SalishHawkFan · Oct 20, 2015

yeah, but see, what you do is, you switch them and have Graham run a quick post and jump up as if the pass is to him, but not catch it. That blocks out the defender and makes it hard to call OPI on Graham as he's trying to catch an overthrown pass that Lockett snaps up, wide open. (this is why I'm not an offensive coordinator lol).

brimsalabim · Oct 20, 2015

The route concept there has only one of four receivers beyond the first down marker at the time Russell has to make the throw and the guys on the right barely run their routes anyway. In addition Jimmy and Lockett are positioned so that the defense has three men to triangulate and cover them. I guess this was a sell out Jimmy or nothing play. It looks as if the line blocked it well and Russell threw it as he was supposed to. When we ran it I thought Jimmy ran his route short but maybe the problem was Lockett not getting to his spot?

It sure looked like that seam throw Russell and Jimmy hooked up over the middle with in the first half would be there for the taking any time we ran it, as long as Russell put the ball high again. Did we run that one again after the first half success?

SoulfishHawk · Oct 20, 2015

Shocker, Bevell calling a 3 yard pass when they need 5.... :roll:

HawkGA · Oct 20, 2015

Shouldn't we at least be glad he didn't call another bubble screen to Graham?

SoulfishHawk · Oct 20, 2015

I'd just be glad if he called a play that actually makes sense once in awhile :lol:

joeseahawks · Oct 20, 2015

Did you notice that if Russ had waited an extra millisecond he would have been sacked?
So, if Graham runs an extra yard, there is no way he can catch the pass. Even if it was an 8 yards route, Jimmy MUST turn around there to be ready to receive.
Would you rather an incomplete pass or a pass and an attempt to break a tackle?
I believe we need more of these routes on first and second down, though. We need good safe first down throws, so that we have second and third downs to make less than 3 yards.
But, we usually do ... run, run , throw, punt ...
Our offense relies too much on big plays and runs ... we need routes of 3-5 yards. We need to adjust our game, we have been too predictable.

SoulfishHawk · Oct 20, 2015

Way too predictable. The point is that they needed 5 YARDS, not 3. Why in the hell would you call a play that doesn't even get you to the sticks??

aawolf · Oct 20, 2015

Look at Garry Gilliam, who I think is playing RT. He whiffs big time on his attempted block. Just falls down. That's brutal.

SoulfishHawk · Oct 20, 2015

Yeah, this experimenting with the O Line has not been good

Bwarren · Oct 20, 2015

JG is not exactly a guy who breaks tackles. He gets touched he falls down. Play was doomed in practice three days earlier.

Bevell defenders, anyone, please explain this to me

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