Bevell defenders, anyone, please explain this to me

[Scottemojo]

If Russ releases the ball when Lockett makes his break at the 39, it's a huge gainer. Aside from run blocking, Russ's tentativeness in releasing the ball is the primary reason we are hindered on offense.

Posts like this is why you can't be taken seriously. In one thread you will say Russell's scrambling (in reality his scrambling is often because he is tentative with the ball) is of course a part of the Bevell offense.

Yet in this post, his careful, tentative nature is why we are hindered on offense.

Which is it? Is Russell's tendency to pull the ball down and run around part of the offense, or is it hindering the offense?

 

[mrt144]

They think RW should be perfect every play and when he's objectively the only person doing something right on the play, nope, he should have made a better choice. I am so glad I purchased all-22 so I can see how much of a scapegoat RW is relative to people and players who actually fail.

 

[Siouxhawk]

If Russ releases the ball when Lockett makes his break at the 39, it's a huge gainer. Aside from run blocking, Russ's tentativeness in releasing the ball is the primary reason we are hindered on offense.

Posts like this is why you can't be taken seriously. In one thread you will say Russell's scrambling (in reality his scrambling is often because he is tentative with the ball) is of course a part of the Bevell offense.

Yet in this post, his careful, tentative nature is why we are hindered on offense.

Which is it? Is Russell's tendency to pull the ball down and run around part of the offense, or is it hindering the offense?

Why can't it be both? His pass protection in this instance would've given him just enough time to find Lockett on the slant play that would've sealed the win. He would've taken a hit, but that's the life of a quarterback.
When he's in scramble mode, it's about positioning, giving Russ a target or readying to make a block. Of course they are prepared for those situations, too. What do you think they're doing in Renton?

 

[mrt144]

1st and 10 at Carolina 17

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8g59b ... cslist_api

Bubble screen to JFG.

I'm sure people will find a way to blame RW for this.

 

[mrt144]

If Russ releases the ball when Lockett makes his break at the 39, it's a huge gainer. Aside from run blocking, Russ's tentativeness in releasing the ball is the primary reason we are hindered on offense.

Posts like this is why you can't be taken seriously. In one thread you will say Russell's scrambling (in reality his scrambling is often because he is tentative with the ball) is of course a part of the Bevell offense.

Yet in this post, his careful, tentative nature is why we are hindered on offense.

Which is it? Is Russell's tendency to pull the ball down and run around part of the offense, or is it hindering the offense?

Why can't it be both? His pass protection in this instance would've given him just enough time to find Lockett on the slant play that would've sealed the win. He would've taken a hit, but that's the life of a quarterback.
When he's in scramble mode, it's about positioning, giving Russ a target or readying to make a block. Of course they are prepared for those situations, too. What do you think they're doing in Renton?

It's like you don't even recognize the coverage there. You'd have thrown a pick 10/10 times. Have fun being let down by RW every play if the game.

 

[Crizilla]

They think RW should be perfect every play

nobody has said that. No QB will go 50/50 400 yards 5 TD's 0 INT every game.

he's objectively the only person doing something right on the play

uhh no he's not?

 

[mrt144]

Blocking didn't work, jfg didn't run a route to the first down, lockette isnt even close to a 50/50 ball. RW throws it and it's complete. You speculatively think he could have hit lockette, you're entitled to lunacy.

Also what makes anyone think this wasn't a designed play to JFG?

 

[Popeyejones]

You are missing the fact that the middle linebacker is pretty much in the passing lane that you are advocating the ball to go to until the pass is already thrown to Graham.

Yep.

Throwing to Lockett there is what Kaepernick would do.

It's asking for an interception because you don't want to punt.

Oh ok so Wilson would throw an INT right there instead of getting the ball over the defender and to Lockett.

Uh, no.

My point was that if there WAS an option for the primary read on that play (with the pressure he's not getting to a secondary read regardless) then Kaepernick would have misdiagnosed in his pre-snap read and thrown the ball into a lane being occupied by the MLB.

Wilson on the other hand, correctly diagnosed the coverage, so he doesn't throw an impossible pass into an occupied spot that only an armchair QB who doesn't know what he's talking about would say is a preferable option. Got it?

Remember, I'm a 49ers fan, so it's not like I'm secretly motivated to insist that Wilson did the right thing in a situation in which Kaepernick may have done the wrong thing. :lol:

And just to go back to a really imporant caveat, this is all conditioned on "if there WAS an option for the primary read on that play." No matter what due to the pressure there's not a QB in the NFL who is getting past his primary read from his pre-snap coverage diagnosis. It's really up to you if you'd prefer to blame the O-Line or blame Lockett, but blaming Bevell or Wilson for that play just doesn't make any sense.

 

[Sports Hernia]

This was one of the penultimate plays of the upset loss. The first of two consecutive three-and-outs, after being up 23-14, that allowed Carolina the opportunity to get back in the game. It was 3rd and 5 . . . a first down allows us to drain more time off the clock and perhaps get in scoring range to pad the lead. Russell throws the ball to Jimmy Graham, who is running a quick out route. My question is, why does this play call for Graham to cut on the route three yards short of the first down line? We need to get to the 40 to keep the chains moving and win the game. It makes no sense to me, as not only would Graham have to complete the reception, but he would also need to break a tackle, avoid the sideline, and gain three yards after the catch for the first down. That seems like a low probability play on a 3rd and 5.

OC's rely too much on yards after the catch, and DB is no exception. That play PO'ed me to no end.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The idea is for Lockett to pull or rub the defender on Graham enough for him to catch the ball and get the first down.

Didn't happen.

Great call? No, but certainly not a terrible call by Bevell.

 

[mrt144]

The idea is for Lockett to pull or rub the defender on Graham enough for him to catch the ball and get the first down.

Didn't happen.

Great call? No, but certainly not a terrible call by Bevell.

It's not terrible, it's insipid and it works against strengths of JFG and Tyler Lockette and is played very well by the defense.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Basically, it's a conservative play call designed to reduce the chance of a costly pick or sack-fumble. Get the ball quickly into Jimmy's hands. If the linebacker doesn't make a great play or JG can break a tackle, it's a first down. If they fail to convert, they know they have a great punter who can pin the Panthers deep and force them to score at least at TD and another score within 8 minutes. Historically, that's been tough for opposing offenses to do.

I think it's more a philosophy disagreement people have here. Some want to stay aggressive. Some want to play to the team's strength, which is its defense. The question now though is if the defense can be relied upon as they used to be.

Knowing the recent failures of the defense in the 4th quarter I'd understand people wanting to call a higher risk, higher regard play there, but at the moment in the game, up two scores, you have some flexibility to play it safe. At least, we used to have the flexibility.

 

[akscoundrel]

Looking at this pass play and seeing (Lockette?) wide open in the middle of the field and NOT getting the ball tells me Russell has a long way to go to being an elite pocket passer. Brady or Rodgers would have picked something up with the coverage or would have read the defense and bought himself enough time in the pocket to STEP UP (instead of panic back pedaling that Wilson does) and hit that receiver. Elite QB's know every route a receiver has in their offensive play book for every play. Russell should have known he would have a receiver mid field, wide open. Also, If Carolina's safety doesn't bite on the inside route and covers mid field, that leaves the inside route open, resulting in a first down assuming the play is executed. We don't know for sure if this is Bevell's mistake. Why? Because maybe the plan was originally to try and hit the mid field receiver. Russ could have panicked, was unsure of himself, didn't know what the defense was throwing at him, etc and went with the "safe" route to Graham with hopes it would somehow result in a first down. It's also entirely possible Russ has developed panic or quick release syndrome due to the o-line playing so poor. I think the o-line has improved the last 2 games, though.

Lol, lockett was only 'wide open' after the throw was made to graham. No reason for the defender to follow lockett around the football field, and ins dad go make the tackle.

There's plenty to criticize bevell, and everybody, over. But, let's at least be honest and knowledgeable about it.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

AKS, I was thinking about that too. But if Lockett is so explosive, he may have had that 2 yards to work with and been able to bust a long one. Hence my thought about a lob and let him do the work. I see the MLB there too. Hence the lob.

for reference see lob to Baldwin in the NFCCG??? cant remember exactly now.

 

[akscoundrel]

AKS, I was thinking about that too. But if Lockett is so explosive, he may have had that 2 yards to work with and been able to bust a long one. Hence my thought about a lob and let him do the work. I see the MLB there too. Hence the lob.

for reference see lob to Baldwin in the NFCCG??? cant remember exactly now.

Yeah, possible, but the pressure is coming immediately and quickly. As soon as the ball is snapped Russell has to make the decision on where the ball is going, and commit to that decision. He could have led lockett with a lob, but that would have taken a split second or two to survey if he's leading lockett right into a safety. Instead, he just went with getting the ball into the playmakers hands, who was open. At this point, I'm just tired of seeing sacks in those situations, so I'll take it lol. And I'd much rather graham be russell's first read.

Hard for me to fault anybody (besides the line) on that play.

 

[mrt144]

It's bizarre that almost every criticism with RW boils down to "he should have made THIS pass instead of THAT pass or no pass, I don't care what the coverage looks like".

That's basically what it comes down to with the holding it too long or not seeing open men etc etc.

I wonder how many NFL teams would pay 20 million for that.

 

[HawkFreak]

If they run that play to the other (wide) side of the field - does it give them a better shot at giving Graham a little more room before the sideline to possibly pick up the first?

 

[Crizilla]

You are missing the fact that the middle linebacker is pretty much in the passing lane that you are advocating the ball to go to until the pass is already thrown to Graham.

Yep.

Throwing to Lockett there is what Kaepernick would do.

It's asking for an interception because you don't want to punt.

Oh ok so Wilson would throw an INT right there instead of getting the ball over the defender and to Lockett.

Uh, no.

My point was that if there WAS an option for the primary read on that play (with the pressure he's not getting to a secondary read regardless) then Kaepernick would have misdiagnosed in his pre-snap read and thrown the ball into a lane being occupied by the MLB.

Wilson on the other hand, correctly diagnosed the coverage, so he doesn't throw an impossible pass into an occupied spot that only an armchair QB who doesn't know what he's talking about would say is a preferable option. Got it?

Remember, I'm a 49ers fan, so it's not like I'm secretly motivated to insist that Wilson did the right thing in a situation in which Kaepernick may have done the wrong thing. :lol:

And just to go back to a really imporant caveat, this is all conditioned on "if there WAS an option for the primary read on that play." No matter what due to the pressure there's not a QB in the NFL who is getting past his primary read from his pre-snap coverage diagnosis. It's really up to you if you'd prefer to blame the O-Line or blame Lockett, but blaming Bevell or Wilson for that play just doesn't make any sense.

no i dont got it. You said Kaepernick would throw to lockett there. Well so would have Rodgers (Yes I trust Rodgers more to make the throw). Your point? By saying Wilson would be "asking for an interception right there" you're basically saying Wilson chose not to throw it there because of the fear on an INT. He certainty wasn't scared to throw for a TD at the 1 yard line in the Owl. You can't play scared, especially when trying to close out the game. Double especially when you need to pass the ball at a distance that gives you a good chance for a first down when it's 3rd and 5.

Everyone knew the time would come where Wilson would be put under the microscope and prove he can pass from the pocket. Running game and defense will not be the 2013 version every year. Now we are to that point and I still see an incredible play maker with championship leadership. Can't say a pocket passer quite yet. There was no excuse to panic back pedal and throw to Graham right there if you're a starting QB in the NFL. Elite QB's handle the blitz well. Russ can beat the blitz with his playmaking scramble abilities but can't beat the blitz from the pocket.

 

[mrt144]

Panic back pedal?

:177692:

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It's bizarre that almost every criticism with RW boils down to "he should have made THIS pass instead of THAT pass or no pass, I don't care what the coverage looks like".

That's basically what it comes down to with the holding it too long or not seeing open men etc etc.

I wonder how many NFL teams would pay 20 million for that.

With me it's not the "should have"............it's the overall tentativeness and fear of making mistakes that bothers me about Russell.

I made a thread last Friday about how great Brees looked, confident throwing into double coverage, tight spaces with no fear or tentativeness.

THAT'S what I want out of Russell. EVERY QB makes wrong reads or doesn't see open receivers from time to time. It's the tentative play out of Russell that's driving me crazy.

He's been so coached up to just not make a mistake and let your defense win the game. Well my friends, that shit ain't working this year. Russell needs to be unleashed and go make some damn plays and stop pussy footin' around.

























That's right I said pussy footin!