2016 first round watch list (updated)

Hasselbeck

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Don't agree a lot with the Goff ranking, but interesting read nonetheless
 
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theENGLISHseahawk

theENGLISHseahawk

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Goff is very similar to Brock Osweiler. Capable of some of the most beautiful passes you'll see, and capable of some of the dumbest, most erratic games you can imagine.

Also more mobile than you'd expect and slim -- again similar to Osweiler.
 

CPHawk

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Buckner is so much better than Armstead, it's not even funny.
 

CamanoIslandJQ

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So far this FBS season, the two guys listed below seem to be extremely underrated based off their individual FBS defensive stat rankings & performance. On the cbssports.com site they are currently offering a film of players that have improved their draft position. No mention of either of these guys (mostly QB's are talked about). I don't understand how current performance figures into the rankings, seems like they aren't paying any attention to in season stats except for perhaps those they rated preseason as in the top 50-100. Maybe these guys get "discovered" by seasons end?

-Carl Nassib, Sr. DE, 6-6+/270, Penn St. 12.5 sacks (#1 in FBS), 17.5 TFL (#1 in FBS), 5-Forced fumbles (tied #1 in FBS), 1-INT, 39 total tackles.
----------Currently ranked by cbssports.com as the #17-DE, #189-overall, projected Rd-5/6

-Joe Schobert, Sr, OLB, 6-2/239, Wisconsin. 9.5 sacks (#2 in FBS), 14.5 TFL (#3 in FBS), 4-Forced fumbles (tied #2 in FBS), 11-QB Hurries and 1-PBU, 53-total tackles.
----------Currently ranked by cbssports.com as the #65-OLB, #807=overall, projected as undrafted.
http://www.cfbstats.com/ . http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings
 

cover-2

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CamanoIslandJQ":2le1ldj4 said:
So far this FBS season, the two guys listed below seem to be extremely underrated based off their individual FBS defensive stat rankings & performance. On the cbssports.com site they are currently offering a film of players that have improved their draft position. No mention of either of these guys (mostly QB's are talked about). I don't understand how current performance figures into the rankings, seems like they aren't paying any attention to in season stats except for perhaps those they rated preseason as in the top 50-100. Maybe these guys get "discovered" by seasons end?

-Carl Nassib, Sr. DE, 6-6+/270, Penn St. 12.5 sacks (#1 in FBS), 17.5 TFL (#1 in FBS), 5-Forced fumbles (tied #1 in FBS), 1-INT, 39 total tackles.
----------Currently ranked by cbssports.com as the #17-DE, #189-overall, projected Rd-5/6

-Joe Schobert, Sr, OLB, 6-2/239, Wisconsin. 9.5 sacks (#2 in FBS), 14.5 TFL (#3 in FBS), 4-Forced fumbles (tied #2 in FBS), 11-QB Hurries and 1-PBU, 53-total tackles.
----------Currently ranked by cbssports.com as the #65-OLB, #807=overall, projected as undrafted.
http://www.cfbstats.com/ . http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings

I don't know that those two haven't been discovered. I scouted the Penn St vs. Maryland game and one of the TV commentary guys calling the game, gushed about Nassib as possibly being the best pass rusher in college football. IMO that was a ridiculous statement, although from watching that one game Nassib is intriguing because of his size and straight line speed. He looks like a raw prospect, he needs to use his hands better as a pass rusher, need to implement a pass rush move or two, his initial quickness looks to be average, and he plays to upright.

Schobert is another player that gets mentioned as one of two pass rushing playmakers on Wisconsin's defense. I did watch Schobert and his teammate Vince Biegel and one of the two looked more athletic than the other, I cant remember which one.

Scouting from a stat sheet is not the best way to rank prospects, but it is a good way to pick who you want to scout for a Saturday full of college football prospects. Either that stat sheet prospect will live up to your scouting requirements for his particular position or he will proved to be a benefactor of the system he is in or benefactor of talented teammates he plays with on his side of the ball.


...If you want to scout a somewhat flying under-the-radar player then scout Maryland DE Yannick Ngakoue. Ngakoue is a hot name on Seahawksdraftblog, and after watching him play vs. Penn St I am a believer. At 6-2 255 lbs, he is an undersized DE but he is a very legit prospect. I don't think he is a guy that will blow you away with a great 40-yard dash time, but with his initial quickness he should have a great 10-yard split. He plays with great leverage, and is surprisingly stout vs the run. When pass rushing he has shown a great spin move, which he did not use enough vs Penn St. Ngakoue compares favorably to Cliff Avril and Elvis Dumervil.

here is a highlight video of Ngakoue from last year...
[youtube]XlXMAmomiDI[/youtube]
 

CamanoIslandJQ

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My initial post was more about how the cbssports.com website (& many others) doesn't update player rankings in-season very well at all. A player, from a major college that leads the FBS in the middle of the season in Sacks, tackles for loss and forced fumbles, should not be ranked as the #17 DE and #189-overall. that is what is RIDICULOUS.

As to the player, Carl Nassib, He's a first year starting SENIOR, and as such he is indeed raw and will need NFL coaching (as all will) to achieve his best. He indeed lacks experience and needs to add to his pass rushing acumen. That would all be reason at the start of this season for him to be ranked #17 DE in the class. However, he's got the best #'s out of the gate, better than ANY other in his draft class. Many may consider him a 1/2 year wonder, but wouldn't he be even better with some good NFL coaching? I’m sorry but I'm not sure that watching 1 game of his will be enough to properly evaluate his talents.

The Football Educator website: http://www.thefootballeducator.com/impa ... stics-nfl/
advocates watching a minimum of 4-6 games of a player and performance stats are very much used as a part of the total evaluation process. In fact in the linked piece above, they feel that there is a need for even more defensive comprehensive stats in the NFL (and I'd assume college) as well. Note the comparison of total tackles by Kuetchly & our own Bobby Wagner. (Interesting, maybe BW is even the better player as I've felt all along?)

Personally, I don't "scout from a stat sheet", but I feel that accumulated statistics are an important resource in the evaluation process. It may be hard for some to tell "potential performance" from "actual performance". Actual performances = Actual Results. Potential performances = Best guess of future results. It also should be noted there have been a lot of “looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane” players drafted based on their hyped "potential". One may ask, if they are so good, why haven't they performed when given the chance?

Maryland DE Ngakoue is a JUNIOR, thus until he declares, sites like cbssports.com won’t even list him. I see him as a decent player, a possible LEO type candidate, That may not happen until the 2017 draft if he doesn’t come out.

IMO: I see Nassib as more of a standard DE/DT rotational type guy (IE: Bennett/Clark) if he can add a little more muscle and improve his moves. From the broadcast talk during the Penn St vs: Illinois game, he sounds like a potential Seahawk player to me. I'd say if he continues his performance he's a lock for at least the 2-nd round. Right now, If he's on the board for either of the Seahawks 3-rd round picks, I'd expect they would jump on him (Hill was a 3-rd), not sure they'd spend a 2-nd with the other team needs (OT, OG/C) so evident.
 

cover-2

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CamanoIslandJQ":ys09gxkl said:
My initial post was more about how the cbssports.com website (& many others) doesn't update player rankings in-season very well at all. A player, from a major college that leads the FBS in the middle of the season in Sacks, tackles for loss and forced fumbles, should not be ranked as the #17 DE and #189-overall. that is what is RIDICULOUS.

As to the player, Carl Nassib, He's a first year starting SENIOR, and as such he is indeed raw and will need NFL coaching (as all will) to achieve his best. He indeed lacks experience and needs to add to his pass rushing acumen. That would all be reason at the start of this season for him to be ranked #17 DE in the class. However, he's got the best #'s out of the gate, better than ANY other in his draft class. Many may consider him a 1/2 year wonder, but wouldn't he be even better with some good NFL coaching? I’m sorry but I'm not sure that watching 1 game of his will be enough to properly evaluate his talents.

The Football Educator website: http://www.thefootballeducator.com/impa ... stics-nfl/
advocates watching a minimum of 4-6 games of a player and performance stats are very much used as a part of the total evaluation process. In fact in the linked piece above, they feel that there is a need for even more defensive comprehensive stats in the NFL (and I'd assume college) as well. Note the comparison of total tackles by Kuetchly & our own Bobby Wagner. (Interesting, maybe BW is even the better player as I've felt all along?)

Personally, I don't "scout from a stat sheet", but I feel that accumulated statistics are an important resource in the evaluation process. It may be hard for some to tell "potential performance" from "actual performance". Actual performances = Actual Results. Potential performances = Best guess of future results. It also should be noted there have been a lot of “looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane” players drafted based on their hyped "potential". One may ask, if they are so good, why haven't they performed when given the chance?

Maryland DE Ngakoue is a JUNIOR, thus until he declares, sites like cbssports.com won’t even list him. I see him as a decent player, a possible LEO type candidate, That may not happen until the 2017 draft if he doesn’t come out.

IMO: I see Nassib as more of a standard DE/DT rotational type guy (IE: Bennett/Clark) if he can add a little more muscle and improve his moves. From the broadcast talk during the Penn St vs: Illinois game, he sounds like a potential Seahawk player to me. I'd say if he continues his performance he's a lock for at least the 2-nd round. Right now, If he's on the board for either of the Seahawks 3-rd round picks, I'd expect they would jump on him (Hill was a 3-rd), not sure they'd spend a 2-nd with the other team needs (OT, OG/C) so evident.

Hey, slow down dude! I didn't mean to make it a personal attack on you.

Scouting prospects has been a hobby of mine for about 15 years, so I am more than aware that a final scouting analysis of prospect can't be made off of just one game. But, thanks anyway for your attempt to inform me what all to take into account when scouting players.

I think we may be on agreement on Nassib as a prospect. I do agree that Nassib should be ranked higher than the #17 ranked DE. But I wouldn't go so far as to rank him in the top three DE's in the draft, which is what the TV commentator was seeming to suggest.

To the defense of scouting or mock draft web sites, it is nearly impossible to scout every draft eligible prospect and to adjust those rankings weekly. Cbssports.com does include juniors and red-shirt sophomores on their prospect rankings, even though those underclassmen have yet to declare. So Ngakoue may just not be on their scouting radar at this time.
 

CamanoIslandJQ

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I'm very sorry bro, I didn't really mean to dis you personally, I had a few drinks before my last post and I somehow picked up a slightly snarky tone to your post and felt I should reply in kind. So much for drinking while surfing.

I still think web rating sites are lazy & aren't using available stats in their updates of rankings. All one needs to do is go to cfbcports.com and click "National" to get the top end of performance in the major offensive & defensive stats. Their site seems to update really quickly for each weeks games.

For what ever it's worth, the player in question has now seen some media attention, and it remains to be seen if cbssports.com ever updates his rating. IMO, he is a player to keep an eye on for the Hawks draft (perhaps RD=2/3 if he's there, which I doubt.) Ranking players is obviously a difficult process, but in season stats could be very useful if they were actually considered. LB-Paul Dawson was a similar example of midseason low ranking last year.

http://www.yardbarker.com/college_footb ... 9_19819702
 

cover-2

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peachesenregalia":vn7kldzw said:
What's your opinion of emmanuel Ogbah, DE Oklahoma State? I'm not sure he's 1st round talent, but the guy has a massive motor and plays with a lot of intensity. He's in the backfield constantly, and his run stopping is fantastic.

I like Ogbah, but like you said I don't know he is a 1st round prospect. From the couple games I have watched of him, he looks raw as a pass rusher. He didn't use his hands, no spin move, swim move, he did use a rip move one time. He just tries to win with his brute strength and his motor. He defiantly has upside. He also looks to have unusually long arms for his height, which is great.
 
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