With the SF game on the horizon, and Harbaugh still talking

[nsport]

LOL I doubt it. But anything's possible.

After Pete Carroll's stints in New York and New England, people said his personality wasn't suited for the pro game, but he's doing fine in Seattle.

I understand people hating Harbaugh, but all the extra stuff is overblown, IMO.

Sorry - really not trying to doubt your point of view here - it's just that it's very well understood that Harbaugh's history is not that pleasant. This stuff wears off and while genuine, I don't think will last per se. Who knows, maybe it will - but it's a lot like saying, "My girlfriend gives me great sex, but when it's all said and done, she really has a tendency to piss me off!" - I mean none of us are stupid, we will all do just about anything to get great sex, but the mental cost of keeping a crappy girlfriend to get it is not going to last.

In contrast, I was also a bit miffed at the hire of Carroll - he had the not-so-stellar NFL head coaching record - and people overlook his many successful years in the NFL, but then again are also soured by the USC scrutiny. I think many also overlook the stage in his life that led to so many good things at USC and the Los Angeles community. The true mantra of Pete Carroll will stand the test of time, similar to his idle John Wooden and many others. He's coupled with a great FO and an owner the absolutely supports him, along with the support of the players. I'm totally a Carroll supporter - if anyone wants to learn some awesome stuff, read his book. I did not support any previous coach even closely, except maybe Jack Patera or Chuck Knox in the early days. Holmgren was great for certain reasons and comes in a close 4th place behind them.

You just don't hear that good stuff about Harbaugh. I think they have a great FO and no doubt he's got a great football mind - but will his players grow tired? I gotta think so - it just makes so much sense... I like good sex, but will only do so much to get it. The analogy is about winning - 13 wins in a surprising season, 11 the next year, followed by a Super Bowl appearance. Will the shenanigans begin to sour the team when they face some real adversity? Or, will the shenanigans just wear out the team chemistry, even in good times? I believe this is also very likely!

 

[HawkWow]

This is consistent with every thing I have stated...and yes, I remember Muster well. It's become clear there are 3 types of people not aware of this VERY common knowledge about Harbaugh...the young, the disinterested and the 49er fan.

But John knows. Let's not forget, Harbaugh didn't speak to, let alone congratulate, brother John on his SB win for an entire week after. How can anyone defend such a character? Call him a "great coach" if you want. That can be accepted or at least debated. Calling him anything resembling a good human only raises questions about you.

HawkWow, you seem to know your football. I respect that. Kudos. Harbaugh is just an arrogant, confrontational, immature, uber-competitive jerk. Basically, he is proud of the fact that most people think he lacks perspective in life. You know, the type of guy who walks around with the proverbial chip on his shoulder, just daring someone to knock it off. He seems to me to be the type of guy who views everything as a "challenge" of some sort. You remember the old Seinfeld episode with the "Mandelbaums." You know, the family of old dudes who always thought Jerry was challenging them to see who was stronger (i.e. who could lift the heaviest object over their head). That basically is Harbaugh. He is the prototypical, "WHAT, YOU THINK YOU'RE BETTER THAN ME OR SOMETHING?!!!" guy.

LOL...Thanks...now I'm having a hard time shaking the image of Harbaugh, with a block of wood balanced on his shoulder, muttering the words "Go, ahead...I dare ya'..I DOUBLE dare ya'". Then his mother's voice comes in "Jim...are you playing in the bathroom again...please come out now".

I take it you're a Bears fan. Great franchise. It would be inappropriate for me to ask your age, but if you are my age, you've seen some GREAT players wear your uni., as well as the greatest team in the history of the sport (IMO). You'd think some of these SF jokers would appreciate your opinion on this subject. But they're an appreciative bunch, these 9er fans. ; )

 

[FrankTheTank21]

LOL I doubt it. But anything's possible.

After Pete Carroll's stints in New York and New England, people said his personality wasn't suited for the pro game, but he's doing fine in Seattle.

I understand people hating Harbaugh, but all the extra stuff is overblown, IMO.

Sorry - really not trying to doubt your point of view here - it's just that it's very well understood that Harbaugh's history is not that pleasant. This stuff wears off and while genuine, I don't think will last per se. Who knows, maybe it will - but it's a lot like saying, "My girlfriend gives me great sex, but when it's all said and done, she really has a tendency to piss me off!" - I mean none of us are stupid, we will all do just about anything to get great sex, but the mental cost of keeping a crappy girlfriend to get it is not going to last.

In contrast, I was also a bit miffed at the hire of Carroll - he had the not-so-stellar NFL head coaching record - and people overlook his many successful years in the NFL, but then again are also soured by the USC scrutiny. I think many also overlook the stage in his life that led to so many good things at USC and the Los Angeles community. The true mantra of Pete Carroll will stand the test of time, similar to his idle John Wooden and many others. He's coupled with a great FO and an owner the absolutely supports him, along with the support of the players. I'm totally a Carroll supporter - if anyone wants to learn some awesome stuff, read his book. I did not support any previous coach even closely, except maybe Jack Patera or Chuck Knox in the early days. Holmgren was great for certain reasons and comes in a close 4th place behind them.

You just don't hear that good stuff about Harbaugh. I think they have a great FO and no doubt he's got a great football mind - but will his players grow tired? I gotta think so - it just makes so much sense... I like good sex, but will only do so much to get it. The analogy is about winning - 13 wins in a surprising season, 11 the next year, followed by a Super Bowl appearance. Will the shenanigans begin to sour the team when they face some real adversity? Or, will the shenanigans just wear out the team chemistry, even in good times? I believe this is also very likely!

But what shenanigans are we talking about?

Punching Jim Kelly 20 years ago? Flipping over card tables during poker games with the Bears? Slapping Jim Schwartz on the back?

I'm just not sure how that relates to his interaction with his players. I think coaches get in trouble when they pull antics ON THEIR PLAYERS without gaining their respect. I remember when Marty Mornhinweg tried to prove a point by kicking all of his players out of the first practice or something like that. It just comes across corny. I'm not privy to what goes on behind closed doors, but all indications are that the players love Harbaugh. It's just a far cry from the Nolan/Singletary days (aka "the dark times").

BTW I'm a Bruin so I despise Pete Carroll.

 

[Smellyman]

I used to think Pete's rah rah persona was phony. I also used to think Harbaugh acting like psychopath was phony. But they have carried it on far too long to be acting. Nobody is that great of an actor, your true perssonality will show through.

so,

Pete really is a genuine, positive good guy and Harbaugh is in fact a psychopath.

 

[HawkWow]

LOL I doubt it. But anything's possible.

After Pete Carroll's stints in New York and New England, people said his personality wasn't suited for the pro game, but he's doing fine in Seattle.

I understand people hating Harbaugh, but all the extra stuff is overblown, IMO.

Sorry - really not trying to doubt your point of view here - it's just that it's very well understood that Harbaugh's history is not that pleasant. This stuff wears off and while genuine, I don't think will last per se. Who knows, maybe it will - but it's a lot like saying, "My girlfriend gives me great sex, but when it's all said and done, she really has a tendency to piss me off!" - I mean none of us are stupid, we will all do just about anything to get great sex, but the mental cost of keeping a crappy girlfriend to get it is not going to last.

In contrast, I was also a bit miffed at the hire of Carroll - he had the not-so-stellar NFL head coaching record - and people overlook his many successful years in the NFL, but then again are also soured by the USC scrutiny. I think many also overlook the stage in his life that led to so many good things at USC and the Los Angeles community. The true mantra of Pete Carroll will stand the test of time, similar to his idle John Wooden and many others. He's coupled with a great FO and an owner the absolutely supports him, along with the support of the players. I'm totally a Carroll supporter - if anyone wants to learn some awesome stuff, read his book. I did not support any previous coach even closely, except maybe Jack Patera or Chuck Knox in the early days. Holmgren was great for certain reasons and comes in a close 4th place behind them.

You just don't hear that good stuff about Harbaugh. I think they have a great FO and no doubt he's got a great football mind - but will his players grow tired? I gotta think so - it just makes so much sense... I like good sex, but will only do so much to get it. The analogy is about winning - 13 wins in a surprising season, 11 the next year, followed by a Super Bowl appearance. Will the shenanigans begin to sour the team when they face some real adversity? Or, will the shenanigans just wear out the team chemistry, even in good times? I believe this is also very likely!

Brilliant!

 

[BuddyRyans46]

I used to think Pete's rah rah persona was phony. I also used to think Harbaugh acting like psychopath was phony. But they have carried it on far too long to be acting. Nobody is that great of an actor, your true perssonality will show through.

so,

Pete really is a genuine, positive good guy and Harbaugh is in fact a psychopath.

LOL this post made me laugh.

 

[CrimsonWazzu]

I used to think Pete's rah rah persona was phony. I also used to think Harbaugh acting like psychopath was phony. But they have carried it on far too long to be acting. Nobody is that great of an actor, your true perssonality will show through.

so,

Pete really is a genuine, positive good guy and Harbaugh is in fact a psychopath.

Thread over.

 

[HansGruber]

This isn't about Harbaugh's personality, but I'm getting tired of hearing how great of a coach Harbaugh is based on Stanford.

The dudes career in Stanford was a blink of the eye. A few good years. He only coached one quarterback, who happened to be one of the best in NCAA history. They continued to be good after he left. Big freaking woopty-doo. Even Alex Smith moved on after Harbaugh and looks just as good if not better.

Harbaugh cashed in on his minimal success before Stanford ever faced any adversity. He dumped that team like the plain girl at a prom the very second a prettier girl asked to dance. The dude had no loyalty to that program and left the school hanging, costing it many recruits.

Frankly, Harbaugh doesn't even rank in Pac-10 history, he was a flash in the pan. Dude can't even carry the jock strap of legends like Don James, Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly. He wasn't man enough to stick around and prove it. He ran away as soon as he got the chance because he knew he was a garbage recruiter and wouldn't be able to sustain anything. And that is out there about his terrible recruiting. Kids were turned off. By Stanford. That is bad.

Carroll dominated college football for a decade. He put multiple quarterbacks in the first round, top 5 picks who couldn't even hack it in the nfl after leaving the USC program. Harbaugh had one Heisman. Carroll had so many Heismans and other trophies, USC had to build a new case to hold them all. Carroll's USC teams were so dominant that it literally caused the Pac-10 to reorganize. USC still ranks just based on its former glory. Harbaugh never even jumped and touched his ankles. Never moved past being a jealous little hater and into a peer.

Personally,I think it's a joke. I've actually laughed in a niners fans face for trying to bring up Stanford. B#yotch pleeeze. Boise state and Utah had longer runs.

 

[HawkWow]

...to further your point, those QBs Pete had, 1st rounders or not, were basically crap. He tapped every bit of talent they had and that's why they continue to fail miserably at the next level. They left it all at SC. Luck would have won 2 or 3 nattys with Pete and if I recall, I don't think Luck liked Harbaugh either.

 

[HansGruber]

Further, Harbaugh only had 2 bowl appearances. Never a champion. He got destroyed by Oklahoma in his first bowl game and destroyed by chip Kelly the next year leading to a cream puff orange bowl against Virginia tech (while Oregon played in the BCS championship). While he was bragging about his win over USC, Carroll was laughing because the little putz never even took the Pac 10 from Oregon.

Harbaugh has never won a championship in a major league. He's always been a second place runner up. A wanna be. He never even won the Pac 10.

Chip Kelly yawns when you mention his name. Don James can't hear you because all those rose bowl trophies are in the way. And Pete Carroll is too busy getting the last laugh while others continue to argue his USC teams as the greatest of all time.

 

[HansGruber]

And I'm gonna put it out here right now:

Harbaugh is going to bail at the first sign of adversity in San Francisco. He's going to jump ship, like he always has. Find a team with more talent looking for a coach, and run for the hills. The man has never stood with any team for more than a few years. Never coached or led anyone through hardship or to a championship.

You Niner fans can quote me. Harbaugh is a b!$#@h. You watch what happens when Kaepernick gets injured or y'all have a losing season. A tiger can't change its stripes.

 

[Starrman44]

I respect Harbaugh as far as a coach. He ain't no Mike Singletary. I don't know if his personality grinds on his players or not. Listening to Kap in an interview is just like listening to Harbaugh, imo, so maybe the players and the coach are cut from the same mold.

The thing that makes me think that he is the same card table flipping crazy man is his antics on the sideline. He looks like a card table flipping maniac.

I think that he was already pre-disposed to be the way he is, but I also think that he respects Mike Ditka and Ditka was the same way on the sideline.

 

[HawkWow]

And I'm gonna put it out here right now:

Harbaugh is going to bail at the first sign of adversity in San Francisco. He's going to jump ship, like he always has. Find a team with more talent looking for a coach, and run for the hills. The man has never stood with any team for more than a few years. Never coached or led anyone through hardship or to a championship.

You Niner fans can quote me. Harbaugh is a b!$#@h. You watch what happens when Kaepernick gets injured or y'all have a losing season. A tiger can't change its stripes.

Exactly and I've said this since his hiring. The stakes are now too high for Harbaugh. He used to just flip cards, now he's building houses with them. The implosion is coming.

I can only laugh at the 9er fans, so shallow that they think we loathe this cartoon because he's their coach (WTF?). Look through all the threads sheeple. Count how many you see like this about Fisher or any other coaches (not named Shanahan) we compete against. Revolt now!

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Any whiner fans gonna jump in here and defend this clown?

I didnt think so.

Harbaugh seems to have the maturity of an 11 year old boy.

And thats pushing it.

Ok, I typically stay away from these sort of topics and stay in NFL talk, but since you requested, I will oblige.

I love Harbaugh. He is extremely intelligent and everything he does has a motive behind it. He takes no s*** from nobody and supports his players no matter what. The greater percentage of people outside of the 49ers organization and fanbase dislike him. But guess what, the opinion of opposing fans means absolutely nothing and the opinion of opposing coaches means absolutely nothing. All that matters to him is the success of his team and the organization. He loves his players and his players love him.

I love his attitude and how he keeps the attention of the media on him instead of the players. The media is trying to get to Kap, but Harbaugh is keeping the attention on him.

His sideline antics show his passion. I wish I could find people as passionate about their job as he is about his. His reactions are extreme because he cares. He cares about his team and his players. If you have issues with that, than you have issues with yourself.

Love how 9er fans casually dismiss psychotic behavior mixed with telltale signs of asperger syndrom as passion.

 

[BuddyRyans46]

Harbaugh seems like the type of guy who randomly challenges other dudes to arm wrestling contests.

 

[FrankTheTank21]

This isn't about Harbaugh's personality, but I'm getting tired of hearing how great of a coach Harbaugh is based on Stanford.

The dudes career in Stanford was a blink of the eye. A few good years. He only coached one quarterback, who happened to be one of the best in NCAA history. They continued to be good after he left. Big freaking woopty-doo. Even Alex Smith moved on after Harbaugh and looks just as good if not better.

Harbaugh cashed in on his minimal success before Stanford ever faced any adversity. He dumped that team like the plain girl at a prom the very second a prettier girl asked to dance. The dude had no loyalty to that program and left the school hanging, costing it many recruits.

Frankly, Harbaugh doesn't even rank in Pac-10 history, he was a flash in the pan. Dude can't even carry the jock strap of legends like Don James, Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly. He wasn't man enough to stick around and prove it. He ran away as soon as he got the chance because he knew he was a garbage recruiter and wouldn't be able to sustain anything. And that is out there about his terrible recruiting. Kids were turned off. By Stanford. That is bad.

Carroll dominated college football for a decade. He put multiple quarterbacks in the first round, top 5 picks who couldn't even hack it in the nfl after leaving the USC program. Harbaugh had one Heisman. Carroll had so many Heismans and other trophies, USC had to build a new case to hold them all. Carroll's USC teams were so dominant that it literally caused the Pac-10 to reorganize. USC still ranks just based on its former glory. Harbaugh never even jumped and touched his ankles. Never moved past being a jealous little hater and into a peer.

Personally,I think it's a joke. I've actually laughed in a niners fans face for trying to bring up Stanford. B#yotch pleeeze. Boise state and Utah had longer runs.

I understand the Harbaugh hate, but I think you've gone to great lengths to downplay his accomplishments.

Harbaugh didn't have Andrew Luck his first year. Tavita Pritchard was the QB, and he beat USC in the Coliseum when Stanford was a 41-point underdog.

I don't understand the Alex Smith point. Harbaugh revived his moribund career. He doesn't get any credit for developing him as a player?

Harbaugh never faced adversity? Taking over a floundering program that was 1-11 the year before he got there isn't adversity? Chip Kelly was the head coach of Oregon for 4 years, same number of years as Harbaugh. Kelly was about to get hit with a show-cause penalty after the recruiting scandal, but you don't seem to be accusing him of jumping ship. BTW he took over a solid program that Mike Belotti shepherded for a long time. I'm not downplaying his accomplishments. I'm just pointing out that the situations at Stanford and Oregon were not analogous.

How does a team go from 1-11 to 12-1 in a power conference with "garbage" recruiting? How does that happen?

Pete Carroll's run at SC was legendary. He took over for Paul "Can't" Hackett, and returned SC to glory. Carroll is unquestionably a Hall of Fame coach. However, SC is a traditional power. Stanford isn't. Harbaugh's achievements at Stanford shouldn't be dismissed.

 

[FrankTheTank21]

...to further your point, those QBs Pete had, 1st rounders or not, were basically crap. He tapped every bit of talent they had and that's why they continue to fail miserably at the next level. They left it all at SC. Luck would have won 2 or 3 nattys with Pete and if I recall, I don't think Luck liked Harbaugh either.

Carroll had multiple 4 or 5-star QBs at USC every season. Star rankings aren't a definitive gauge of success, but they weren't short on talent.

When does a coach get credit for development?

I've never heard anything about Luck not liking Harbaugh. I've heard a lot of the opposite, though.

Regardless, what does it matter? Luck chose to play for Harbaugh, and he enjoyed great success with him.

 

[BocciHawk]

I guess I have to write off 49er fans as delusional.

Case in point.

If you ask around here, people will pretty much unanimously agree that Jim Mora was a terrible coach, and not a good person, either, throwing players under the bus both during his tenure and after.

I think you'll also find that people will pretty much unanimously agree that Mike Holmgren was a great football coach, but a terrible evaluator of talent and he did a piss poor job in the front office.

How hard would it be to say, as a 49er fan, that Jim Harbaugh has some personality and behavior issues, but is apparently a good motivator and coach? Seems to me that this would be accurate, and not all that hard to say...

All this defending of Jim Harbaugh as some sort of ninth dimensional chess act like this to draw off the media type of deal is just delusional and makes the 49er fanbois look like, well, fanbois.

BTW, I agree with some of the other posters here as well, I think Jim runs away at the first sign of adversity... if the 49ers implode on the field, or there's some incident with the assistant coaches pushing back that leaks from the locker room, he's gone. If he gets an opportunity to go elsewhere, he will. I think ultimately he can't stand the heat, which is ironic, in that his public persona is that of a man who loves the biggest challenges. I think his great displays of frustration will ultimately be his undoing... that and his ridiculous hubris.

 

[HawkMeat]

This isn't about Harbaugh's personality, but I'm getting tired of hearing how great of a coach Harbaugh is based on Stanford.

The dudes career in Stanford was a blink of the eye. A few good years. He only coached one quarterback, who happened to be one of the best in NCAA history. They continued to be good after he left. Big freaking woopty-doo. Even Alex Smith moved on after Harbaugh and looks just as good if not better.

Harbaugh cashed in on his minimal success before Stanford ever faced any adversity. He dumped that team like the plain girl at a prom the very second a prettier girl asked to dance. The dude had no loyalty to that program and left the school hanging, costing it many recruits.

Frankly, Harbaugh doesn't even rank in Pac-10 history, he was a flash in the pan. Dude can't even carry the jock strap of legends like Don James, Pete Carroll or Chip Kelly. He wasn't man enough to stick around and prove it. He ran away as soon as he got the chance because he knew he was a garbage recruiter and wouldn't be able to sustain anything. And that is out there about his terrible recruiting. Kids were turned off. By Stanford. That is bad.

Carroll dominated college football for a decade. He put multiple quarterbacks in the first round, top 5 picks who couldn't even hack it in the nfl after leaving the USC program. Harbaugh had one Heisman. Carroll had so many Heismans and other trophies, USC had to build a new case to hold them all. Carroll's USC teams were so dominant that it literally caused the Pac-10 to reorganize. USC still ranks just based on its former glory. Harbaugh never even jumped and touched his ankles. Never moved past being a jealous little hater and into a peer.

Personally,I think it's a joke. I've actually laughed in a niners fans face for trying to bring up Stanford. B#yotch pleeeze. Boise state and Utah had longer runs.

Great read! :snack:

 

[FrankTheTank21]

I guess I have to write off 49er fans as delusional.

Case in point.

If you ask around here, people will pretty much unanimously agree that Jim Mora was a terrible coach, and not a good person, either, throwing players under the bus both during his tenure and after.

I think you'll also find that people will pretty much unanimously agree that Mike Holmgren was a great football coach, but a terrible evaluator of talent and he did a piss poor job in the front office.

How hard would it be to say, as a 49er fan, that Jim Harbaugh has some personality and behavior issues, but is apparently a good motivator and coach? Seems to me that this would be accurate, and not all that hard to say...

All this defending of Jim Harbaugh as some sort of ninth dimensional chess act like this to draw off the media type of deal is just delusional and makes the 49er fanbois look like, well, fanbois.

BTW, I agree with some of the other posters here as well, I think Jim runs away at the first sign of adversity... if the 49ers implode on the field, or there's some incident with the assistant coaches pushing back that leaks from the locker room, he's gone. If he gets an opportunity to go elsewhere, he will. I think ultimately he can't stand the heat, which is ironic, in that his public persona is that of a man who loves the biggest challenges. I think his great displays of frustration will ultimately be his undoing... that and his ridiculous hubris.

I don't think any 9er fans care about that stuff. Until his behavioral "problems" cost us in the locker room or on the field consistently, it's nothing more than pop psychology fare on message boards.

And I don't understand this "quitter" notion. When has he quit in his coaching career? Why would he go somewhere else when he's found a franchise QB?

With Wilson and Kaepernick under center, I think the Seahawks and 49ers are going to be really good for a long time.