Why no love for DK"

[NoGain]

Sorry I was actually looking for a post to hitch hike on

Wires crossed! I already gave you a thumbs up because you gave a good thoughtful post...and your post was fair yet favorable toward DK so I wouldn't be directing any angst your way...I was lazy and looking to hitch hike on any post mentioning drops...you weren't the origin...you just did an agreed...I had already responded to the post you were reacting to. Your post was fine...I was putting "drops" in perspective as a hitch hiker to your post...your content was fine which is why I'll leave you without responding to Tyreke Hill. My posts need better articulation it seems.

Stop being so civil. It's out of step with the zeitgeist of our times.

 

[TraderGary]

Well since your a long time fan I'll tip my hat to you with my own opinions. I appreciate you prefacing your comments with you having an open mind.

BA hands...too many drops......but BA no...the Rams game was a "hands" away from the body clutch catch with immediate pull in to keep control of it knowing Jalen Ramsey was draped all over him. Too many drops? Not a sharp argument from me...but Geno will be the first to act upon that by audible/check down...I haven't seen him cock his arm back looking at DK then suddenly target Tyler or Fant. He can be fan faulted for allowing too many passes caught into his body instead of a quick snatch of his hands.

With all due respect, I don't know that highlighting a single play in which DK made a nice catch makes a very strong argument. I could counter that with numerous drops in key situations.
Geno is going to stay with the play that's called a vast majority of the time, and I'm sure he trusts DK to make the play.

Fails to win his share (50/50). He looks like "Superman" but he's not...these are NFL corners.

Yes, but with his size advantage you would think he would win more of those. I haven't looked up any stats on 50/50 balls, but it seems to me just from personal recollection that he doesn't win many of those. I acknowledge I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

Sloppy/poor routes with rounding off...this is a common fan misstatement. Waldron and Sanjay Lal only...know the route assignment...what "keys" DK has been coached to look for and "alter" route...or even if DK is meant to be a decoy dragging his coverage away from the intended run play or pass target. Do you see Geno yelling in his ear on the sidelines? Probably a good clue...

We need Geno to be a leader, and I highly doubt he's going to yell at DK or anyone on the sidelines. I'd like to think he'd take it into the locker room where it belongs, away from the cameras and the fans. And why alienate one of your key weapons on offense by calling him out publicly?
As for the route running, I think it's gotten better over the years, but very much still a work in progress.

Fails to create separation...you have already acknowledged his large size...on "Go Balls" his speed gets him separation from 1rst defender...but you think the deeper set Free Safety isn't cheating toward DK's coverage? He is seldom left unbracketed in single coverage...opponents respect him...
For changing direction at the stem of the route...his size and speed takes several chopped (wasted)steps to downshift and plant his foot to redirect his motion. This is physics in motion...Tyler is lighter and quicker so his body can change direction "on a dime".

I think those are fair points.

Limited route tree...as a big body split end with speed...Go Routes and Deep Posts are typical to what "limited" implies...but he has added to his route tree with crossing/dig routes especially last year. Short area quickness is JSN's and Locket's forte...its not common in all WRs ...

Again, I think that's a fair point.

Immaturity/loses his cool...I would like to give him credit for improvement?

Maybe you've seen improvement but I'm not sure I have. It's too easy for a good corner to get into his head and bait him. Mark my words, it's going to cost the Hawks a key game one of these days. Sometimes I feel like he's a child in a man's body. He's gotten away with it many times from the refs, but it's going to catch up to him if he doesn't grow up.

Gets upset for lack of targets...a fiery competitive alpha male wants to know he has the QB's trust...Even Geno doesn't always see a WR suddenly break free...Tyler will just come back to the huddle and let Geno know his coverage is "biting" on some move Tyler has done...and DK who is often blanketed or drawing the opponents best man coverage guy...gets frustrated because its rare that he gets "busted" coverage. Geno handles it well...and fans can be ok with that...

I would rather he be more of a team player and not as concerned about his personal stats. I've never once seen Tyler get upset because he wasn't getting the ball enough.

Again glad to hear you're a long time fan...my claim only began in 2010. Sorry TraderGary...my original post was very snarky so I edited it to parse my response.

No apology necessary. I appreciate your respectful and well thought out response. I think we may agree on some points and disagree on others, and that's fine.

Couple people have mentioned that he's still young and I think that's a very fair point. But he's also the 6th highest paid WR in the league. That type of salary comes with higher expectations, and I would argue he's not meeting those expectations, at least not yet.

I don't hate DK. I want him to do well because that means he's helping my favorite team win. I just think he's overrated and overpaid, and I would be open to moving on from him if/when the opportunity presents itself.

 

[TraderGary]

DK is a weapon and love having him on the team. Not as dynamic as the top WRs and not real natural hands. He seems a real hard worker and is slowly adding to his game.

If there is a big 3rd or 4th down, I am much more comfortable seeing that ball go to #16 or even a TE

That last statement you made is exactly the way I feel. Do you not see a problem with that given DK is 6th in salary for all NFL WR's?

 

[Hawkmode]

With all due respect, I don't know that highlighting a single play in which DK made a nice catch makes a very strong argument. I could counter that with numerous drops in key situations.
Geno is going to stay with the play that's called a vast majority of the time, and I'm sure he trusts DK to make the play.

Yes, but with his size advantage you would think he would win more of those. I haven't looked up any stats on 50/50 balls, but it seems to me just from personal recollection that he doesn't win many of those. I acknowledge I could be wrong, but I don't think I am.

We need Geno to be a leader, and I highly doubt he's going to yell at DK or anyone on the sidelines. I'd like to think he'd take it into the locker room where it belongs, away from the cameras and the fans. And why alienate one of your key weapons on offense by calling him out publicly?
As for the route running, I think it's gotten better over the years, but very much still a work in progress.

I think those are fair points.

Again, I think that's a fair point.

Maybe you've seen improvement but I'm not sure I have. It's too easy for a good corner to get into his head and bait him. Mark my words, it's going to cost the Hawks a key game one of these days. Sometimes I feel like he's a child in a man's body. He's gotten away with it many times from the refs, but it's going to catch up to him if he doesn't grow up.

I would rather he be more of a team player and not as concerned about his personal stats. I've never once seen Tyler get upset because he wasn't getting the ball enough.

No apology necessary. I appreciate your respectful and well thought out response. I think we may agree on some points and disagree on others, and that's fine.

Couple people have mentioned that he's still young and I think that's a very fair point. But he's also the 6th highest paid WR in the league. That type of salary comes with higher expectations, and I would argue he's not meeting those expectations, at least not yet.

I don't hate DK. I want him to do well because that means he's helping my favorite team win. I just think he's overrated and overpaid, and I would be open to moving on from him if/when the opportunity presents itself.

Your views cannot be "faulted" since many of our opinionated comments are just that. Fans are always tempted to make note of salary...but our GM is trusted and highly paid to handle financial/player contracts with having high cost "decisions" vetted by ownership. DK's "value" to the team also probably involved Pete/Shawn/Sanjay.

Both sides DK/CB1 "trash talk"...its a nuance of the game...recent memory seems not so much flying off the handle...very protective of Geno being hit hard by Jalen Ramsey as Geno was going out of bounds...he wasn't the only player who took exception. Pete allows some emotions stemming from physicality...and the players seem to show Pete proper respect.

Yes I only gave one example of him snatching pass with both hands before pulling it in to avoid giving the defender a chance at punching the ball loose...but it was a play most fans remember since it was very clutch and well covered. Red Zone targets offer the most opportunity for the defender to keep tight coverage.

 

[CallMeADawg]

Bunch of clowns. Let's see what he does this coming season. I bet a bunch of you will be standing in line for your serving of crow.

 

[Hawkmode]

Bunch of clowns. Let's see what he does this coming season. I bet a bunch of you will be standing in line for your serving of crow.

By and large he really has few detractors...but his real respect is among his coaches and team mates. He is one of the best athletes in interviews...never baited into talking about Russell or throwing any shade when questioned about past...even refused last year to get involved with the Geno/Lock competition based on some very pointed questions to reveal who he'd favor...you'd think as a fan base we'd be talking down other "better" WRs...he doesn't need heaps of accolades but he is deserving of some appreciation...even if only for the way his attention allows Lockett to be his best.

 

[chris98251]

I really hate this time of year, the nit picking of players that don't fit a profile depicted by posters ideals. 1000 yard plus receiver isn't good enough or dependable enough anymore. Yes he gets paid, but in two years it will be a bargain, also given he was only thrown to on go routes mostly by Wilson and still managed a large catch quantity, the yards are due to the type of routes however I expect a more diverse amount of receptions going forward which could round out his skill set.

 

[GemCity]

Sorry I was actually looking for a post to hitch hike on

Wires crossed! I already gave you a thumbs up because you gave a good thoughtful post...and your post was fair yet favorable toward DK so I wouldn't be directing any angst your way...I was lazy and looking to hitch hike on any post mentioning drops...you weren't the origin...you just did an agreed...I had already responded to the post you were reacting to. Your post was fine...I was putting "drops" in perspective as a hitch hiker to your post...your content was fine which is why I'll leave you without responding to Tyreke Hill. My posts need better articulation it seems.

You’re good man. I was just hoping that you’d see that I agree with your views on DK.

I know on paper there are “better” receivers. But, I’ll take DK all day.

I don’t think Hill is better…just was using it as a reference point.

 

[xray]

Physically , he has everything from the neck down to be a top 5 WR in the NFL . Unfortunately , he sometimes has a problem between his ears that will keep him from ever being elite . imo

 

[Hawkmode]

I agree with your analysis here. DK has the big contract--$72 million over 3 years, so expectations are very high.

DK's limitations are as advertised before the draft: doesn't get enough separation, no wiggle in his game, lack of awareness in space, not enough yards after the catch.

And yet, he remains a big weapon and with JSN on the scene, it may open things up a little more for DK.

Last year, DK had almost as productive a season as another person with a similar contract, AJ Brown. Brown had about the same number of catches, but almost 500 more yards and twice as many TDs. DK had a better year than another guy with a similar contract, Deebo Samuel, but Deebo missed 4 games to injury and he did a lot more in the 49ers run game.

If you are looking for a closer WR comp for DK for dropped passes...it would be the Bengals Jamarr Chase who is their Red Zone target...only 12 games played yet 10 drops.

 

[Hawkmode]

I really hate this time of year, the nit picking of players that don't fit a profile depicted by posters ideals. 1000 yard plus receiver isn't good enough or dependable enough anymore. Yes he gets paid, but in two years it will be a bargain, also given he was only thrown to on go routes mostly by Wilson and still managed a large catch quantity, the yards are due to the type of routes however I expect a more diverse amount of receptions going forward which could round out his skill set.

Nice job of keeping perspective. I'll add a quote from Drew Lock (*put those knives away*)..."Comparison is the destroyer of happiness". I prefer Abe Lincoln quotes myself:

“Folks are usually about as happy as they make their minds up to be.”
― Abraham Lincoln

“Those who look for the bad in people will surely find it.”
― Abraham Lincoln

“And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years.”
― Abraham Lincoln

 

[bileever]

I think we're all on the same page here, actually. We all think DK's an excellent player. I mean the guy had 90 catches for 1000 yards last year--pretty great by any standard. We all love the guy.

Because DK's paid like a true superstar, he's going to be held to high standards and be scrutinized by everyone here. And given his physical attributes, I think some people feel that he could improve his game, and I think he will. He seems like a hard worker who is interested in getting better, like the great players do.

JSN's presence will likely help DK. I also hope the Waldron helps Dk by calling for more quick passes to him, which will necessitate more man coverage, which DK does great against. But you know what? Defenses played less man coverage against the Seahawks than most teams. I wonder if having JSN will change that.

Here is an interesting PFF chart on man coverage for the first 11 games last year (sorry the last couple teams got cut off):



Here is the link, but it may be behind a paywall:

Week 11 Man, Zone Rates: Vikings' zone collapses vs Cowboys; Rams ultimate gauge of Chiefs' gamelan-influence power | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF

• After brief week away, the Chiefs again top the league in most man coverage faced (41.6%).

www.pff.com

 

[FrodosFinger]

Because people look at his size without realizing that he’s balling out every year. He could have 1200 yards and 20 TD’s and a hater will be like “he had 2 drops 4 years ago”

 

[bmorepunk]

If Metcalf absolute murders everybody on the field and picks up 100/120 catches for 1600/1900 yards the next couple of seasons, the comparison to Johnson would have some weight.

DK is awesome, but he's not in Johnson's league at this point. Johnson had similar output as DK the first four years and was just wild to watch. DK could be that kind of special, but executing is different than potential. It won't be fair if he hits that next gear.

 

[Hawkmode]

If Metcalf absolute murders everybody on the field and picks up 100/120 catches for 1600/1900 yards the next couple of seasons, the comparison to Johnson would have some weight.

DK is awesome, but he's not in Johnson's league at this point. Johnson had similar output as DK the first four years and was just wild to watch. DK could be that kind of special, but executing is different than potential. It won't be fair if he hits that next gear.

How are we even comparing DK to Megatron? Body size and elite speed? QB option from DK...Tyler. Det QB option from Calvin Johnson...Nate Burleson. CJ targets 2011/2012/2013 was 158/204/156. DK had his highest last year 141...only because Tyler broke his hand in Game 16 (out)and was questionable for game 17 with only 2 targets.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Bunch of clowns. Let's see what he does this coming season. I bet a bunch of you will be standing in line for your serving of crow.

They won't. They'll dwell on something he did wrong, even if he's lighting it up in 2023.

 

[Hawkmode]

They won't. They'll dwell on something he did wrong, even if he's lighting it up in 2023.

"Comparison is the destroyer of happiness". It doesn't matter how DK "stacks up" when compared to others...his true value is how he plays within our own system. Does our QB trust DK as a "go to" WR when the "chips are on the table"? Does DK inspire his team mates to better themselves...or is he somehow a detractor? He does many things not seen in stats...how much focus does our opponent face on "shutting down" DK? Where are stats like well covered or constant double coverage? How about his willingness to even block for others. He plays very physical and enjoys contact...isn't that great to see in any football player in the NFL?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yep, can't imagine not being stoked he's a Hawk. But, to each his/her own.