Ultra Conservative Offense is killing me

[Schadie001]

I don't know about any of you. But this ultra conservative offensive approach is killing me to watch. We rarely throw the ball to intermediate receivers, we run the ball almost to a fault, and when we do throw it most of the throws are swing passes or bubble screens or bombs.

Just seems like an offense with little to no innovation. Run on 1st and 10, Run on 2nd and long, bubble screen on 3rd and 7, or draw on 3rd and long. Run, run and run some more. We have a short quick to intermediate passing game that shows up for a series or two every few games and works. Kills me that they throw that out for this run at all costs approach.

We will not be able to compete with offenses that put up points with this type of play calling. It kills me to watch and you see what a single xtra point miss can do as well.

 

[TreeRon]

I agree. I was disappointed to see this in OT. We came out as if we had 4 qtrs to score.We started the drive with the same types of conservative plays we'd been running all day. There seemed to be no sense of urgency knowing we had to get a TD, if not that a FG and if not that at least get out to around mid field so as to give SF poor field position.
Once we punted from deep in our own territory it was pretty much game over with Gould as SF's kicker.
If we were going to play like that we should have let SF have the ball first.

 

[Mad Dog]

Pouring Rain. Howling wind. Bad turf. What were you expecting?

It was weather tailor-made for this kind of offence. And it only got derailed by a seahawk record number of judgement call penalties. Otherwise we easily score 30 points.

You will not beat any team with 148yds in accepted penalty yards. Ever.

The offence is fine. It protects the defense, it scores enough points. It keeps the QB healthy.

 

[Atradees]

I would like to see more quick slants and wheel routes. That Is All.

 

[Mad Dog]

I would like to see more quick slants and wheel routes. That Is All.

Threw a nice wheel route to Mc Kissic on OT. Got called back by holding. Like pretty much every crucial play in the 4th quarter and OT.

 

[94Smith]

The offense was fine, you just can’t have holding penalties and get into third and long

 

[TreeRon]

Pouring Rain. Howling wind. Bad turf. What were you expecting?

It was weather tailor-made for this kind of offence. And it only got derailed by a seahawk record number of judgement call penalties. Otherwise we easily score 30 points.

You will not beat any team with 148yds in accepted penalty yards. Ever.

The offence is fine. It protects the defense, it scores enough points. It keeps the QB healthy.

Someone needed to tell Mullins and Shannahan.

Two running plays that got little, as SF was ready for them, and then a throw that was needed to bail out the negligible gains from plays one and two. That seemed to be our modus operandi
for most of the game.

I agree that there was too many penalty yards at key times.

 

[johnnyfever]

I think we are doing much better under schotty than bev, but our route trees are still way too vanilla. Even last night what they had kittle doing was awesome. Bringing him around the backside then shooting him out in the flat after our linebackers and db's were already committed was brilliant. He wasn't always open just because we didn't see him line up. He was open because they made our defense have to commit to other players as he appeared to be a non factor at the snap.

We tend to either have go routes from the LOS based on speed or an easily defendable screen from behind the LOS. We dont have to get real cute, just design plays that spread the defenders for a slightly delayed hot route once the zone clears.

And of course...MOD EDIT FOR LANGUAGE!!!

 

[mistaowen]

My biggest complaint is the simplicity of the passing game and complete disregard to utilize the middle of the field. Going run, run, 3rd and 6ish doesn't work often if the third down play call is always a safe deep throw down the sidelines. That coupled with the SAME exact play action max protection deep ball twice a game which hasn't worked since early in the season. They already don't call many passes and when you keep using the same play twice per game, defenses watch too much film and have too many metrics to know what is coming.

The emergence of the running game is awesome and clearly something to stick with, I just don't think the passing game is schematically good enough. Chiefs play makers are better but they also do a great job getting them into winnable situations and favorable match ups. Relying on safe go routes leads to a lot of punts if the running game can't get 3rd and 2's. Anytime they were backed up on 2nd down, the drive seemed to fall apart.

 

[FlyingGreg]

What is killing this offense is the lack of intermediate passing.

Where are the TE's in the passing game? They are using Dickson and Vannett a lot to block, but still - other teams have figured out how to have their TE's do both, and if our line is so improved, why are we constantly having to keep receiving capable TEs out of the patterns?

I was encouraged to see them with designed throws to the backs more yesterday. I still think McKissic should be more integrated at this point. Loved that play to him yesterday, and of course Pocic had to screw it up.

Why is the only throw ever to Moore something along the sideline? Apparently, he has route running issues - have you ever seen him catch anything other than a straight go route or something on the boundary? You never see him over the middle (or anyone else, other than Lockett or Baldwin).

It's feast or famine. Our offense is run, run, then try to get a deep chunk to Lockett or hope Baldwin gets open. There are rarely designed chain movers (short to intermediate). Teams have figured it out and are taking away that counter action deep pass now. Wilson seems laser focused on ONLY looking downfield and ignores wide open receivers right in front of him routinely, because they are not "big enough" plays. That rollout play yesterday was a classic example - he had at least 3 receiving options and could of run for it as well and yet he gets brain freeze.

Brown has 12 catches ALL SEASON; Moore has 23. The passing game is let's hope Lockett gets deep, Baldwin comes through with some magic, or Wilson scrambling for his life on a breakdown play and hoping for the best.

It's frustrating.

 

[Silver Hawk]

Pouring Rain. Howling wind. Bad turf. What were you expecting?

It was weather tailor-made for this kind of offence. And it only got derailed by a seahawk record number of judgement call penalties. Otherwise we easily score 30 points.

You will not beat any team with 148yds in accepted penalty yards. Ever.

The offence is fine. It protects the defense, it scores enough points. It keeps the QB healthy.

What is even worse, is that the 148 yards only includes the actual penalty yardage. If you add in the yards that were gained on several Seahawk plays that got wiped out (like McKissic's 32 yard reception) - you're over 200 yards of lost yardage. That is unreal.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

What is killing this offense is the lack of intermediate passing.

Where are the TE's in the passing game? They are using Dickson and Vannett a lot to block, but still - other teams have figured out how to have their TE's do both, and if our line is so improved, why are we constantly having to keep receiving capable TEs out of the patterns?.

How can you have a passing TE game with the majority of your formations involving two blocking TE's (Dickson and Fant), and only having one barely receiving TE on the roster (Vannett).

Dissly was starting to flash, but that was about it for any of our TE's. Vannett is pedestrian at best, and easily covered by most safeties and LB's.

I agree on the intermediate passing game, but you can't criticize our TE receiving play when we don't have any athletic fast receiving TE's on the roster.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Pouring Rain. Howling wind. Bad turf. What were you expecting?

It was weather tailor-made for this kind of offence. And it only got derailed by a seahawk record number of judgement call penalties. Otherwise we easily score 30 points.

You will not beat any team with 148yds in accepted penalty yards. Ever.

The offence is fine. It protects the defense, it scores enough points. It keeps the QB healthy.

What is even worse, is that the 148 yards only includes the actual penalty yardage. If you add in the yards that were gained on several Seahawk plays that got wiped out (like McKissic's 32 yard reception) - you're over 200 yards of lost yardage. That is unreal.

Yep, the yardage gained that is wiped out needs to be included in penalty stats.
It tells a TRUER picture how penaltys effect games.

 

[semiahmoo]

Pouring Rain. Howling wind. Bad turf. What were you expecting?

It was weather tailor-made for this kind of offence. And it only got derailed by a seahawk record number of judgement call penalties. Otherwise we easily score 30 points.

You will not beat any team with 148yds in accepted penalty yards. Ever.

The offence is fine. It protects the defense, it scores enough points. It keeps the QB healthy.

YUP - possibly the best possible offense given the talent on hand so much credit for Schotty putting it together.

Fact is you're absolutely correct - 148 yards in penalties is very hard for any team to overcome no matter how high-powered the offense or defense might be.

Pete's teams have always struggled with the penalties but the 49's game was really bad even by PC standards...

 

[Uncle Si]

And again...

 

[semiahmoo]

Pouring Rain. Howling wind. Bad turf. What were you expecting?

It was weather tailor-made for this kind of offence. And it only got derailed by a seahawk record number of judgement call penalties. Otherwise we easily score 30 points.

You will not beat any team with 148yds in accepted penalty yards. Ever.

The offence is fine. It protects the defense, it scores enough points. It keeps the QB healthy.

What is even worse, is that the 148 yards only includes the actual penalty yardage. If you add in the yards that were gained on several Seahawk plays that got wiped out (like McKissic's 32 yard reception) - you're over 200 yards of lost yardage. That is unreal.

Yep, the yardage gained that is wiped out needs to be included in penalty stats.
It tells a TRUER picture how penaltys effect games.

That's a good observation. 200 yards of lost yardage!? OUCH.

 

[FlyingGreg]

What is killing this offense is the lack of intermediate passing.

Where are the TE's in the passing game? They are using Dickson and Vannett a lot to block, but still - other teams have figured out how to have their TE's do both, and if our line is so improved, why are we constantly having to keep receiving capable TEs out of the patterns?.

How can you have a passing TE game with the majority of your formations involving two blocking TE's (Dickson and Fant), and only having one barely receiving TE on the roster (Vannett).

Dissly was starting to flash, but that was about it for any of our TE's. Vannett is pedestrian at best, and easily covered by most safeties and LB's.

I agree on the intermediate passing game, but you can't criticize our TE receiving play when we don't have any athletic fast receiving TE's on the roster.

Understood. I didn't "criticize" it, I asked the question ("Where are the TEs")? But the TEs are just one piece of an intermediate passing game. You don't need "athletic fast" TEs to provide an outlet at 5-10 yards during a play for the QB to hit. That's why TEs are usually called security blankets.

More concerning than the TEs is the lack of intermediate targets in general, as I explained pretty clearly in the rest of my post.

 

[semiahmoo]

What is killing this offense is the lack of intermediate passing.

Where are the TE's in the passing game? They are using Dickson and Vannett a lot to block, but still - other teams have figured out how to have their TE's do both, and if our line is so improved, why are we constantly having to keep receiving capable TEs out of the patterns?.

How can you have a passing TE game with the majority of your formations involving two blocking TE's (Dickson and Fant), and only having one barely receiving TE on the roster (Vannett).

Dissly was starting to flash, but that was about it for any of our TE's. Vannett is pedestrian at best, and easily covered by most safeties and LB's.

I agree on the intermediate passing game, but you can't criticize our TE receiving play when we don't have any athletic fast receiving TE's on the roster.

Understood. I didn't "criticize" it, I asked the question ("Where are the TEs")? But the TEs are just one piece of an intermediate passing game. You don't need "athletic fast" TEs to provide an outlet at 5-10 yards during a play for the QB to hit. That's why TEs are usually called security blankets.

More concerning than the TEs is the lack of intermediate targets in general, as I explained pretty clearly in the rest of my post.

You did and I maintain it is at least partly to due to Wilson's lack of comfort in throwing into those areas due to inability to see over the line clearly. He's a small guy in a land of giants. The good news is he's getting much better pass protection and just another step back in the pocket and he'll likely see those passing lanes more easily, get more comfortable making those throws, and add yet another tool to his already impressive arsenal of offensive weapons.

I trust Schotty to expedite that learning curve.

 

[Uncle Si]

What is killing this offense is the lack of intermediate passing.

Where are the TE's in the passing game? They are using Dickson and Vannett a lot to block, but still - other teams have figured out how to have their TE's do both, and if our line is so improved, why are we constantly having to keep receiving capable TEs out of the patterns?.

How can you have a passing TE game with the majority of your formations involving two blocking TE's (Dickson and Fant), and only having one barely receiving TE on the roster (Vannett).

Dissly was starting to flash, but that was about it for any of our TE's. Vannett is pedestrian at best, and easily covered by most safeties and LB's.

I agree on the intermediate passing game, but you can't criticize our TE receiving play when we don't have any athletic fast receiving TE's on the roster.

Understood. I didn't "criticize" it, I asked the question ("Where are the TEs")? But the TEs are just one piece of an intermediate passing game. You don't need "athletic fast" TEs to provide an outlet at 5-10 yards during a play for the QB to hit. That's why TEs are usually called security blankets.

More concerning than the TEs is the lack of intermediate targets in general, as I explained pretty clearly in the rest of my post.

It was my frustration with yesterdays game. Felt like the 9ers were willing to allow quick to intermediate passes in their man coverage in an effort to play the run.

But i didnt see many of those play calls

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

My biggest complaint is the simplicity of the passing game and complete disregard to utilize the middle of the field. Going run, run, 3rd and 6ish doesn't work often if the third down play call is always a safe deep throw down the sidelines. That coupled with the SAME exact play action max protection deep ball twice a game which hasn't worked since early in the season. They already don't call many passes and when you keep using the same play twice per game, defenses watch too much film and have too many metrics to know what is coming.

The emergence of the running game is awesome and clearly something to stick with, I just don't think the passing game is schematically good enough. Chiefs play makers are better but they also do a great job getting them into winnable situations and favorable match ups. Relying on safe go routes leads to a lot of punts if the running game can't get 3rd and 2's. Anytime they were backed up on 2nd down, the drive seemed to fall apart.

One of my coworkers has been stating the reason why the middle of the field is always open and why it's seldom thrown that direction is cause Russ can't see behind the lineman. Lol.