Trading Bobby Wagner

[Fade]

Normally, I wouldn't consider trading a player of Bobby's caliber.

But with the defense being as bad as it's been, all possibilities must be explored in the off-season. And JS will do just that anyway so no need to take my word for it.

It doesn't mean they're going to give him away, but it wouldn't be a bad Idea to clear some cap, gain some picks, and infuse the defense with some younger talent, especially on the D-Line. They're 32nd, everything needs to be on the table at this juncture of all junctures.

If he keeps playing like he did in the SF game though, deal's off. ; )

 

[jamescasey1124]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

 

[Uncle Si]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

It would be one thing to explore this option with BW if his replacement was waiting in the wings. I do not think that is the case.

The team cant play with the roster like it's Madden, and a player like BW, who may net some assets to help in other areas, cannot be lost simply for hopeful gains elsewhere.

The hard part, as with Lewis and Urlacher, is you know near the end you are paying them for what they did, not what they are doing. Both players slowed down at the end of the careers. When that happens, well, that's just the NFL.

 

[Fade]

It would be one thing to explore this option with BW if his replacement was waiting in the wings. I do not think that is the case.

The team cant play with the roster like it's Madden, and a player like BW, who may net some assets to help in other areas, cannot be lost simply for hopeful gains elsewhere.

The hard part, as with Lewis and Urlacher, is you know near the end you are paying them for what they did, not what they are doing. Both players slowed down at the end of the careers. When that happens, well, that's just the NFL.

What about Jordyn Brooks? They spent a 1st rounder on him, and his college coach who also had Bobby comp'd them.

 

[toffee]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

Walsh traded Montana, Lott, and Rice.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[bigskydoc]

Khalil Mack - Oakland to Chicago for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a 6th.

Richard Seymour - New England to Oakland for a 1st

Jared Allen - KC to Min for a 1st and two 3rds

Darrelle Revis - NYJ to Tampa Bay for a 1st and a 4th

So, yes, it happens, and it has been a successful strategy for teams that aren't the Jets.

 

[rcaido]

Brett Favre to the Jets was another big one...

I just hate to see him walk for free just like Thomas & Sherman.

 

[toffee]

Brett Favre to the Jets was another big one...

I just hate to see him walk for free just like Thomas & Sherman.

Bingo, when it comes to trading aging stars, one year too early is better than one year too late.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[jlwaters1]

I think the Ray lewis comment is Wagner is rarely making Game altering plays-- Picks, FF, Sacks. Certainly part of that is the scheme.

He certainly came alive last week against the 49ers, I would LOVE to see him unleashed more to make more of these impactful plays.

 

[jamescasey1124]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

It would be one thing to explore this option with BW if his replacement was waiting in the wings. I do not think that is the case.

The team cant play with the roster like it's Madden, and a player like BW, who may net some assets to help in other areas, cannot be lost simply for hopeful gains elsewhere.

The hard part, as with Lewis and Urlacher, is you know near the end you are paying them for what they did, not what they are doing. Both players slowed down at the end of the careers. When that happens, well, that's just the NFL.

Exactly. But when bobby is done we will know. Cuz just like lewis and urlacher they will tell us when they are no longer interested in playing.

 

[jamescasey1124]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

Walsh traded Montana, Lott, and Rice.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

True but 9ers werent competitive again for a while after.
They had to turn around and trade for a number of other stars around Steve young before they made it back to the bowl.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Khalil Mack - Oakland to Chicago for two 1sts, a 3rd, and a 6th.

Richard Seymour - New England to Oakland for a 1st

Jared Allen - KC to Min for a 1st and two 3rds

Darrelle Revis - NYJ to Tampa Bay for a 1st and a 4th

So, yes, it happens, and it has been a successful strategy for teams that aren't the Jets.

No no no sir...

Not one of these trades made these teams ultimately better. Maybe Seymour because the patriots are usually always competitive.

Oakland gained nothing from mack trade. Still not an playoff team. Getting better maybe.

Seymour to oakland did nothing for patriots except allow for someone to play in his absence. Seymour fizzled out in oakland.

Allen to minnesota was a long time ago also. At the time KC and vikings were not competing. Kc just won a bowl and Vikings still have not.

Revise trade-again didnt benefit either team cuz it didnt materialize into wins or wins in the playoffs.

 

[rcaido]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

Walsh traded Montana, Lott, and Rice.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

True but 9ers werent competitive again for a while after.
They had to turn around and trade for a number of other stars around Steve young before they made it back to the bowl.

They traded Montana for 1st round pick. Ended up getting Stubblefield, who won defensive player of the year. Young became HOF player & they won a Superbow year after the tradel....

 

[Nunya]

All these percieved notions on how old a player is and money they make.

I'm just going to say this...

Did the ravens trade ray lewis? Did the bears trade urlacher? Did any other team trade away their greatest defense players before they actually choose to retire? No it doesnt happen. While it's nice to think of what we can get. It's best to keep the skill positions you have if money is there...regardless. Add players around. That is how you build a great team. Im sure this post will disappear when we make it to the playoffs and then....I dont need to say the rest. Bobby is far from the problem. And cap doesnt matter to players who are a proven commodity. Cap raises every year to allow for inflation and high cost salary. We need to find commodities at the positions where we are weak. Not lb.

Walsh traded Montana, Lott, and Rice.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

True but 9ers werent competitive again for a while after.
They had to turn around and trade for a number of other stars around Steve young before they made it back to the bowl.

They traded Montana for 1st round pick. Ended up getting Stubblefield, who won defensive player of the year. Young became HOF player & they won a Superbow year after the tradel....

Including the Montana/Young situation into this discussion is really apples and oranges. Young had already shown he could replace Montana and the team did not need 2 starting QBs. One of them was going to leave the team. Since Montana was injured for his last 2 seasons in SF, he was the logical one to go. Young had already established himself as the heir apparent.

 

[toffee]

Walsh traded Montana, Lott, and Rice.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

True but 9ers werent competitive again for a while after.
They had to turn around and trade for a number of other stars around Steve young before they made it back to the bowl.

They traded Montana for 1st round pick. Ended up getting Stubblefield, who won defensive player of the year. Young became HOF player & they won a Superbow year after the tradel....

Including the Montana/Young situation into this discussion is really apples and oranges. Young had already shown he could replace Montana and the team did not need 2 starting QBs. One of them was going to leave the team. Since Montana was injured for his last 2 seasons in SF, he was the logical one to go. Young had already established himself as the heir apparent.

Walsh's philosophy:. Trade aging stars a year too early instead of a year too late.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

 

[jamescasey1124]

Walsh traded Montana, Lott, and Rice.

Sent from my IN2017 using Tapatalk

True but 9ers werent competitive again for a while after.
They had to turn around and trade for a number of other stars around Steve young before they made it back to the bowl.

They traded Montana for 1st round pick. Ended up getting Stubblefield, who won defensive player of the year. Young became HOF player & they won a Superbow year after the tradel....

Including the Montana/Young situation into this discussion is really apples and oranges. Young had already shown he could replace Montana and the team did not need 2 starting QBs. One of them was going to leave the team. Since Montana was injured for his last 2 seasons in SF, he was the logical one to go. Young had already established himself as the heir apparent.

Two years after trade they went back to the bowl. Even though young had been starting for a few years already. Young had been in the league years before he took over and didnt even start until thirty. They literally held on to Montana until they couldnt age 36 and got stubbfield who washed out a few years later. It's not apples and oranges. Montana was done. Wagner no where near.

 

[bigskydoc]

Oakland gained nothing from mack trade. Still not an playoff team. Getting better maybe.

Seymour to oakland did nothing for patriots except allow for someone to play in his absence. Seymour fizzled out in oakland.

Allen to minnesota was a long time ago also. At the time KC and vikings were not competing. Kc just won a bowl and Vikings still have not.

Revise trade-again didnt benefit either team cuz it didnt materialize into wins or wins in the playoffs.

It's too early to judge the full effect of the Mack trade, but the Raiders are trending upward, and filled a lot of holes.

The 1st the Patriots got for Seymour was certainly used to draft someone "to play in his absence." With the 17th pick of the 2011 draft, the Patriots took Nate Solder, perhaps you've heard of him. Starting left tackle, protecting Brady's blind side, for almost 6 years. Made 4 Super Bowl appearances, and won 2 rings. Left the Patriots to become the highest paid left tackle, at the time.

It also freed up picks that were ultimately moved around to bring in Chandler Jones, Shane Vereen, and Donta Hightower. It took 2 to 4 years for the full impact to be felt, but it proved to be a very good trade for the Pats.

The Chiefs turned the picks they got for Allen into another couple of players you may have heard of 6-season starting left tackle Branden Albert, and a pretty darn good running back, Jamaal Charles.

Revis trade didn't ultimately help the Jets, but that's because you could give the Jets the first five picks of two consecutive drafts, and they would still figure out a way to have a losing record for the next 10 years.

Who cares about the effect of these players on the teams they went to. That's a complete red herring.

The fact is, successful teams have dealt their prime of their career defensive superstars for picks. Obviously the best managed teams will get better return on their picks. I would like to believe that the Hawks are more on the Pats end of the spectrum than the Jets.

 

[rcaido]

So are you going to just wait until he is done and get nothing in return? Do you think we should resign Wagner to his 3rd contract, he would probably be still be elite by the end of 2021. What about Jamal Adams contract & Metcalf coming at the same time. Then we have Russ the following year when he can opt out or his contract is going to be close to 40million.

Adams will mostly likely be close to 20million
Metcalf could be 25+million, Hopkins is getting 27million a year.
Wagner is already the 3rd highest, w/ 17million a year. Im guessing he will request 20+ too.
Wilson will be 37million & then 39million

That's over 100million for just 4 players. What about Lockett?

Again we are the bottom of the barrell in defense right now. If we win it all then yeah keep Wagner but if we lose because of the defense, i say blow it up and rebuild with Adams.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Oakland gained nothing from mack trade. Still not an playoff team. Getting better maybe.

Seymour to oakland did nothing for patriots except allow for someone to play in his absence. Seymour fizzled out in oakland.

Allen to minnesota was a long time ago also. At the time KC and vikings were not competing. Kc just won a bowl and Vikings still have not.

Revise trade-again didnt benefit either team cuz it didnt materialize into wins or wins in the playoffs.

It's too early to judge the full effect of the Mack trade, but the Raiders are trending upward, and filled a lot of holes.

The 1st the Patriots got for Seymour was certainly used to draft someone "to play in his absence." With the 17th pick of the 2011 draft, the Patriots took Nate Solder, perhaps you've heard of him. Starting left tackle, protecting Brady's blind side, for almost 6 years. Made 4 Super Bowl appearances, and won 2 rings. Left the Patriots to become the highest paid left tackle, at the time.

It also freed up picks that were ultimately moved around to bring in Chandler Jones, Shane Vereen, and Donta Hightower. It took 2 to 4 years for the full impact to be felt, but it proved to be a very good trade for the Pats.

The Chiefs turned the picks they got for Allen into another couple of players you may have heard of 6-season starting left tackle Branden Albert, and a pretty darn good running back, Jamaal Charles.

Revis trade didn't ultimately help the Jets, but that's because you could give the Jets the first five picks of two consecutive drafts, and they would still figure out a way to have a losing record for the next 10 years.

Who cares about the effect of these players on the teams they went to. That's a complete red herring.

The fact is, successful teams have dealt their prime of their career defensive superstars for picks. Obviously the best managed teams will get better return on their picks. I would like to believe that the Hawks are more on the Pats end of the spectrum than the Jets.

Again...none of those teams made superbowl appearances because of the trades. Patriots possibly but the year seymour was traded did nothing. We are looking at a playoff superbowl team and if you keep the members instead of disband it becomes a dynasty. Something we didnt do after 2014.

 

[jamescasey1124]

Oakland gained nothing from mack trade. Still not an playoff team. Getting better maybe.

Seymour to oakland did nothing for patriots except allow for someone to play in his absence. Seymour fizzled out in oakland.

Allen to minnesota was a long time ago also. At the time KC and vikings were not competing. Kc just won a bowl and Vikings still have not.

Revise trade-again didnt benefit either team cuz it didnt materialize into wins or wins in the playoffs.

It's too early to judge the full effect of the Mack trade, but the Raiders are trending upward, and filled a lot of holes.

The 1st the Patriots got for Seymour was certainly used to draft someone "to play in his absence." With the 17th pick of the 2011 draft, the Patriots took Nate Solder, perhaps you've heard of him. Starting left tackle, protecting Brady's blind side, for almost 6 years. Made 4 Super Bowl appearances, and won 2 rings. Left the Patriots to become the highest paid left tackle, at the time.

It also freed up picks that were ultimately moved around to bring in Chandler Jones, Shane Vereen, and Donta Hightower. It took 2 to 4 years for the full impact to be felt, but it proved to be a very good trade for the Pats.

The Chiefs turned the picks they got for Allen into another couple of players you may have heard of 6-season starting left tackle Branden Albert, and a pretty darn good running back, Jamaal Charles.

Revis trade didn't ultimately help the Jets, but that's because you could give the Jets the first five picks of two consecutive drafts, and they would still figure out a way to have a losing record for the next 10 years.

Who cares about the effect of these players on the teams they went to. That's a complete red herring.

The fact is, successful teams have dealt their prime of their career defensive superstars for picks. Obviously the best managed teams will get better return on their picks. I would like to believe that the Hawks are more on the Pats end of the spectrum than the Jets.

Again...none of those teams made superbowl appearances because of the trades. Patriots possibly but the year seymour was traded did nothing. We are looking at a playoff superbowl team and if you keep the members instead of disband it then it becomes a dynasty. Something we didnt do after 2014.