Tom Cable

[hawknation2015]

One of the reasons I am trying not to panic too much is that most of our starting line is a known commodity. We know what Okung is. We've seen Bailey play in a lot of real games now. Same thing with LJP and Lewis. Sweezy is a 4th year vet. Justin Britt started 16 games last year.

Bailey, Sweezy, and Britt played poorly. But do we evaluate them based on 20+ snaps in a first preseason game, or on the multiple regular season starts we've seen out of them before? I don't think one preseason game should really change the way we look at those guys. It was just a really lousy game by them and that's all it was.

Of the OL with previous NFL starting experience, only Britt really concerns me, since we no longer have Zach Miller to glue to his hip.

What we know about Bailey as a starter is not that good. He's not physical. Sure, he has quick feet for a man his size, but he doesn't play the position like someone who likes to hit people. I have played against guys like that: 6'3, 320+ lbs ballerinas who move great, but don't play like they love the game. Once again, PFF awarded Bailey with the lowest run blocking grade on the team.

I worry about the level of physicality on the line of scrimmage when both Bailey and Jeanpierre are playing at the same time. On the Christine Michael fumble, for example, Bailey made little attempt to block anyone.

Keaven Milton was a breath of fresh air when he entered the game. He didn’t do anything spectacular, but he played hard and physical and earned my respect. His athleticism, as a former TE, was obvious. And so was his physicality; he is not a weak sister. Milton and Nowak opened up a massive hole for Christine Michael on his one nice run.

Based on what I saw on Friday, the best five are Okung, Milton, Nowak, Sweezy, and Britt. The best reserve is Glowinski, who has enough power and athleticism to play inside or outside, followed by Gilliam, Lewis, Jeanpierre, and Bailey.

In spite of the struggles by Bailey and Britt, Milton and Nowak showed enough promise to possibly hold this ship together. Bailey has enough athleticism, length, and versatility to help as a critical backup at multiple spots . . . but if he is starting a lot of games for us at left guard, I think we could be in trouble.

 

[EntiatHawk]

Hey I was disappointed as the everyone in our play last night. But we have suffered quite a bit of injury in our o-line. That is not an excuse but just what has happened. The thing with o-lines they need to play together to work as a unit and that takes time which we have not had in a few years. If we can get a few of these young guys to survive and hang together for a while then we can really start making better observations.

FYI Denver last night started 3 guys on the OLine who never played in an NFL game before. Stop with the excuses.

Yeah and when we had our first team D line in there what happened?

Who's we? Do you work for the Seahawks?

Those green O-Linemen played the entire first half and Denver didn't punt one time.

You are sure the snarky one. I get your frustration. The point was that our starting D line went out. Man get a grip. We all get the o-line is a work in progress and sucked in this game. But it is the preseason and it was one game.

Our sucky o-line has gotten us to the Superbowl two years in a row. Now I wish for the second coming of Walt and Hutch but this team is not built that way. We payed a premium for our Defense and a few weapons on the offense. The area we went cheap to make ends meet is the o-line.

I expect they will never be efficient in pass blocking this year but if they can mauls teams in the running game we most likely will be okay. It really is very early and I expect them to get much better throughout the preseason.

 

[bigDhawk]

The way I feel about Tom Cable is the way I felt about Jack Zdurenciek a few years ago. He had done some really cool things, and talked a good talk. But there were some nagging issues that would remain nagging issues year after year after year.

It's hard to expect Wilson to grow as a QB so long as his protection is among the worst in the league. I like Cable, but at some point I wonder if the team will have to choose between developing the passing game and keeping Tom Cable.

There is still time for Cable to prove this a false choice. But I think right now, things seem to be heading in that direction.

Great observation. I think that happens when Lynch retires.

 

[Anthony!]

FYI Denver last night started 3 guys on the OLine who never played in an NFL game before. Stop with the excuses.

Yeah and when we had our first team D line in there what happened?

Who's we? Do you work for the Seahawks?

Those green O-Linemen played the entire first half and Denver didn't punt one time.

You are sure the snarky one. I get your frustration. The point was that our starting D line went out. Man get a grip. We all get the o-line is a work in progress and sucked in this game. But it is the preseason and it was one game.

Our sucky o-line has gotten us to the Superbowl two years in a row. Now I wish for the second coming of Walt and Hutch but this team is not built that way. We payed a premium for our Defense and a few weapons on the offense. The area we went cheap to make ends meet is the o-line.

I expect they will never be efficient in pass blocking this year but if they can mauls teams in the running game we most likely will be okay. It really is very early and I expect them to get much better throughout the preseason.

Hmm good points and if their sucky pass blocking gets WIlson hurt and out for the season who cares. :sarcasm_off:

 

[jammerhawk]

There is no question that ultimately the responsibilty for the OLine devolves to Coach Cable. He often seems to get more credit than he deserves.

To me Coach Cable is a good coach, perhaps even special if we believe all the press clippings, at least he's adequate for those who don't. To bring perspective, as otherwise mentioned, the most experienced Olineman on the team is going into his 5th season, and he's been hurt more than one season over that time. There appears to some pattern in play. The team has rolled the dice and could get burned this season if Cable can't develop this group into an adequate group. He seems to have accepted less basic drafted ability because of his belief he needs to re-teach all the technique to his players. Maybe this is an error or maybe it is reality in a league where being a starting quality Olineman is a rarely found qualityand those who are good are taught to be good, or naturally rare as heck.

I totally agree he's been made to look better by a rare exceptional RB who gains yardage despite being hit in the backfield a significant % of the time and by a QB who is an escape artist and a pretty good runner in his own right. However, I'm not of the belief that drafting Linemen who can play at a high level in the NFL is an easy thing to do. Drafting quality LTs seems to be a 1st Rd thing but a very high % of those drafted don't pan out despite being paid 1st Rd. money. Drafting starting quality OGs is equally hard. There is considerable risk involved and considerable luck too. Okung was a relative iron man in college, but is not so much as a pro. The Hawks to me have drafted only 2 high quality OGs in the whole 40 years of existence and fumbled away the best one.

There have been a few teams, including the Hawks, who have made do with barely adequate OLine play. IIRC both Seattle and Pittsburgh won Lombardi's with barely adequate OLine play. Possibly this is a conscious choice but it is risky.and concerning to those of us who watch. When a player like Unger starts to break down it is often better to let the player go instead of paying him. To me the trade with NO for Graham was masterful as it solved two personnel issues (the team needed a redzone threat, and Unger was starting to break down while being expensive to keep on IR), and the trade returned a potential All Pro TE and huge red zone threat to the team for a player who was playing less regularly than many may acknowledge. Maybe the team has chosen this approach and are prepared to workup a less talented group in return for less worry a and risk with more costly candidates.


I'm making no excuses for Coach Cable but it is early yet and almost every one of the guys drafted are high SPARQ players who have genuine potential to develop. Unfortunately that doesn't solve the 'now' issues. Despite how ugly things were on Friday night, and despite, to me at least, there were few positives to be taken from that OLine outing I suspect there will a player or two who will seize their opportunity; and if not the team may trade or work the roster cuts to find some guys who can play.

Let's wait and watch. Fretting about it is negative thought.

 

[Anthony!]

Perhaps this is the answer to the equation

"I'm not going to defend the Seahawks' pass blocking résumé. I'm not going to say that Russell deals well with pressure every time. But I am going to repose the question: If your QB is going to be facing pressure constantly anyways, because your team prioritizes run-blocking, which single mobile young QB do you want from the top of that list? The one with the highest passer rating and the most rushing yards? That's what I thought."

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/8/16/916 ... rs-whiskey

FYI the Answer is Wilson

 

[Chawker]

I believe the starting 5 from the broncos game was the wrong personal package for a reason....? Its was to get the youngers guys like Glonski,Poole and Lewis ect who came in mid way though the 2 quarter if not mistaken. Its all about gettting them as much playing as possible before the season starts. The OL will jell folks but, it takes time. Once all the big guys come together, you'll see the linemen flow on sweeps and screens. Meanwhile we'll have to sing "Don't worry be happy" cheers

 

[Grahamhawker]

It really is very early

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[Fade]

Our sucky o-line has gotten us to the Superbowl two years in a row. Now I wish for the second coming of Walt and Hutch but this team is not built that way. We payed a premium for our Defense and a few weapons on the offense. The area we went cheap to make ends meet is the o-line.

I expect they will never be efficient in pass blocking this year but if they can mauls teams in the running game we most likely will be okay. It really is very early and I expect them to get much better throughout the preseason.

1) LMAO, based on your logic (logic already refuted in this thread.) Brian Walters got us to the Superbowl. So no need to upgrade him.

2) My biggest beef with the offensive line is they sucked at run blocking Friday night. I gave up on them ever being able to pass block under Cable a season and a half ago.

3) It is only preseason game 1, but I saw a bunch of experienced guys look like they got worse not better. Meanwhile Denver trotted out guys who never played in the NFL before, and they looked like seasoned vets. That is coaching.

 

[Fade]

It really is very early

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That's what Mariners apologists said as well.

 

[Fade]

Who's we? Do you work for the Seahawks?

You have some decent points to make in this discussion, but don't go there.

I'm just trying to point out Kool-Aid is bad, at least try to be objective. It's hard to take someone's opinions serious when they start dropping "We".

 

[Happypuppy]

I worry about the level of physicality on the line of scrimmage when both Bailey and Jeanpierre are playing at the same time. On the Christine Michael fumble, for example, Bailey made little attempt to block anyone.

Keaven Milton was a breath of fresh air when he entered the game. He didn’t do anything spectacular, but he played hard and physical and earned my respect. His athleticism, as a former TE, was obvious. And so was his physicality; he is not a weak sister. Milton and Nowak opened up a massive hole for Christine Michael on his one nice run.

Based on what I saw on Friday, the best five are Okung, Milton, Nowak, Sweezy, and Britt. The best reserve is Glowinski, who has enough power and athleticism to play inside or outside, followed by Gilliam, Lewis, Jeanpierre, and Bailey.

Yes I agree. I like the way you think it's what I see as well.

We should be able to expect to see Britt and Bailey look better at this point. Britt if anything looks like he has regressed. My expectations are higher each year.

Somehow some seem to forget that other DCs a across the NFL watching what we do and coming up with schemes against it. The game is not static. Doing the same thing year after year and expecting it to work is Foolish. They adapt we have to counter.

 

[Fade]

Fantasy Island Offensive Line

LT Okung
LG Vet Free Agent --> Evan Mathis 1yr deal
OC Nowak
RG Sweezy
RT Glowinski

Active Reserves
C/G Lem
OT Gilliam
OT Britt

Inactive
OG Sokoli

Practice Squad eligible / Cut - the remaining

 

[jammerhawk]

I like that fantasy OLine but wonder where the money will come from to pay Mathis as the team is getting pretty squeaky cap wise? All in all I'm not so sure the team hasn't given the idea of this move some consideration. Somehow though I suspect that acquisition won't happen.

At present the thought of RW playing the Rams DLine on the road to start the year behind that crew we saw on Friday night fills me with concern for his health. I wonder about a passing game against that pass rush? As to the ultimate question about Cable I suspect we need to watch and see if he can make this line adequate. If not then the questioning should begin in earnest as the vide nice that he is a guru seems exaggerated. All in all I've thought the OLine hasn't been that great in any phase for years but Friday night was a new level of ugly.

After a few seasons of watching Jeanpierre I doubt he's the answer at C as he isn't that special at making line calls or that physical at the POA and he rarely moves the pile. Britt looks to be playing the wrong position as he looked worse than Breno in his few moments as a matador on Friday. He looks too slow to play against a top level pass rusher as did Davis w/o significant help. Is there a legit swing T on the team b/c Gilliam doesn't look like it? I do think Sweezy can play but he sure didn't play well on Friday night, he made the guys around him look bad at times or was made to look bad by them. Nobody stepped up at LG all game and the heir apparent sure didn't look like one. The whole interior OLine run blocked poorly on Friday night and there was little cohesive play to be observed, they simply looked as if they weren't ready. The rookies looked like rookies and only Glowinski showed much if any promise in that outing. That reality is on Cable. Okung was mostly adequate on Friday but doesn't look like the #6 OA draft pick from his year or hasn't except rarely since being drafted, and is limited by his vulnerability to speed rushers his tenuous health and his predisposition to penalties. All of this points to how hard it is to develop a cohesive OLine but the numbers point to the reality that difficulty has been a reality for the Seahawks for quite a few seasons now.

Still think there is time but this OLine sure looks to be a weak spot on on a team that seems to have depth everywhere else. Is that on Cable, the FO, the scheme, the other coaching or what? Is it designed or simply far too early to fairly assess? Sure hope it's the latter b/c what we saw on Friday was freaking ugly in away we haven't seen as clearly for some time.

 

[justafan]

Everywhere he has coached he has had mediocre results at best.No sustain success anywhere.I cant even fathom JS giving him any say so in the draft room.His past work history hasnt proven he has talent in that dept.His past work history hasnt proven he is great at coaching.
He must be hell on wheels in the interviews.He or the coaching staff gets fired after a year or two and he gets a better job.

 

[themunn]

Lynch has low "yards before contact" because nearly every run of his is between the tackles on 1st or 2nd down into an 8 man box.

He is not like Jamaal Charles who'll take the ball to the outside shoulder of the tackle and break away a 40 yard run untouched, he will almost always be running directly into a crowd - you can have excellent blocking but unless you have 8 men doing it there's always going to be somebody free to try and make a tackle - Cable's job is to isolate those players and make sure that he's running into the weakest tacklers on the defense rather than the strongest.

There's no running back in the league that can flourish without good blocking and a solid system, Lynch included.

 

[Scottemojo]

Cable is likely the head coach in waiting. I dig the guy. And respect the new idea him and Pete are trying to implement.

 

[massari]

I will never talk bad about Cable behind his back.

He might find out and break my face.

Only females have to watch their words.

Cable is likely the head coach in waiting. I dig the guy. And respect the new idea him and Pete are trying to implement.

I'm hoping for Jon Gruden myself.

 

[massari]

Release Kearse and sign Mathis. They have 5 mill of cap space right now so make that 7 by releasing Kearse and give Mathis 5 mill.

Jake Long and Chris Myers could probably be signed for around the minimum I'd think.

 

[RiverDog]

Yet another horrible game from the oline and after the last few years of horrible play, is it time to criticize Cable as we do to Bevell??

I don't understand what these guys do in practice? Don't they practice against out dlineman? Shouldn't practicing against the fastest dline in the nfl actually help them in the pass rushing category?

what clearly seems like the worst pass-pro oline in the NFL, surely has to have a relation to the coaching and talent sensing deficiencies of Tom Cable.

Week after week, year after year, he puts the damn pathetic product on the field.

I agree. Our offensive line has sucked ever since Pete took over and has shown little if any improvement, at least in the passing game.

But it works. Over the past 3 years, we have an NFL best 36-12 regular season record, two SB appearances, and 1 Lombardi, so how can anyone complain about our overall strategy that would seem to assign a low priority to the offensive line?