That was criminal.

[Spohawks]

You realize that in your scenario, other billionaires have to agree to be given the short stick and have their bottom line affected. It also requires that hundreds, if not thousands, of people have to have kept the secret for 30+ years. I am not a billionaire but have a hard time believing that any of them are willing to bear the brunt of a guided league and all the lost money that entails. It's beyond fantasyland to buy into this.

First, trust me that whatever level you believe in the NFL being real, I was at a higher level. It took years for me to come around...and its painful.
Point by point..
1) "Other owners would have to be cool with losing money.
A: 75%+ of money made in the NFL is shared money. If a dad buys nose bleed seats for his family at a Denver home game, the Seahawks get a cut of that ticket sell.

Now it boils down to creating the best story line across the league to create the most sells to distribute to all of the teams. Yes today's Seahawks loss sucks, but the seahawks will make a crap ton more with Brady in the playoffs due to viewership and sells...so are they really losing money? No.

2) "Millions of people would have to keep thier mouth shut for this rigged system to work".

A: Reasons to shut up about it...
1) Legally they have to. Players have said they signed contracts saying they can't speak about it being rigged. At least 1 player said he would talk about it but all costs would have to be covered.

2) Every player feels like a hero, why say to the world "The reason you think I am awesome is a total lie".

3) Any future employment through the NFL or broadcasting would no longer be available to that player/coach.

4) Football is genetic, many players create future players. If Archie Manning sold out the NFL back in the day, his boys wouldn't have been rich off the NFL. Why hurt your family?

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Conspiracy 101

 

[mrblitz]

They didn't lose this game because of officiating. They lost this game because they played like shit.

That was as poorly as they've played since week 2 when they lost 27-7 against SF.

the gashing the seahawks took in the run game, reminded me of earlier this season. and brady caught fire to 3 different wideouts... guys who had not previously been on the same page as brady, all 3 of them in the same game...

early on, the seahawks looked to be sleepwalking.. and with good reason, because kickoff was at 6:30am our time.

one positive to take from this, is that the seahawks almost came back; they never gave up.

but dang, overall that nfl highlight reel is a rough watch for a seahawks fan.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

First, trust me that whatever level you believe in the NFL being real, I was at a higher level. It took years for me to come around...and its painful.
Point by point..
1) "Other owners would have to be cool with losing money.
A: 75%+ of money made in the NFL is shared money. If a dad buys nose bleed seats for his family at a Denver home game, the Seahawks get a cut of that ticket sell.

Now it boils down to creating the best story line across the league to create the most sells to distribute to all of the teams. Yes today's Seahawks loss sucks, but the seahawks will make a crap ton more with Brady in the playoffs due to viewership and sells...so are they really losing money? No.

2) "Millions of people would have to keep thier mouth shut for this rigged system to work".

A: Reasons to shut up about it...
1) Legally they have to. Players have said they signed contracts saying they can't speak about it being rigged. At least 1 player said he would talk about it but all costs would have to be covered.

2) Every player feels like a hero, why say to the world "Why you think I am awesome is a total lie".

3) Any future employment through the NFL or broadcasting would no longer be available to that player/coach.

4) Football is genetic, many players create future players. If Archie Manning sold out the NFL back in the day, his boys wouldn't have been rich off the NFL. Why hurt your family?

Still makes zero sense. Reasons 2-4 for people being quiet only applies to a small percentage of players. But it’s not the players that are important. In fact they’re the least important links in the chain if they’re even aware of it at all. You need everyone involved at the upper (and some middle) levels of the NFL front office, all the refs, all the techs that setup and monitor communications, office workers and over the years hundreds or thousands of people whose legacy and/or family concerns are involved. Even then, as we see in other NDA situations, there are ALWAYS leaks. Always.

As for profit sharing, again, billionaires don’t like sharing. Does being screwed out of 1-3 home playoff games and all the additional monies that come along with having one of the top tier teams? Jersey and mercy sales, increased attendance and the ability to raise prices as sustained success increases demand.
It’s beyond ludicrous to believe this conspiracy can exist with all the possibilities for leaks or tell-alls. It’s pure fantasy that completely ignores human behavior. Using “there was one guy but he didn’t want to talk about it” as some kind of proof is barrly even worth mentioning.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

the gashing the seahawks took in the run game, reminded me of earlier this season. and brady caught fire to 3 different wideouts... guys who had not previously been on the same page as brady, all 3 of them in the same game...

early on, the seahawks looked to be sleepwalking.. and with good reason, because kickoff was at 6:30am our time.

one positive to take from this, is that the seahawks almost came back; they never gave up.

but dang, overall that nfl highlight reel is a rough watch for a seahawks fan.

The kickoff time isn’t a feasible excuse. They left on Wednesday, they had 3 full days to acclimate. Tampa had a 3 hour shorter adjustment to make, that’s a completely negligible advantage over the course of 72 hours.

 

[Spohawks]

Still makes zero sense. Reasons 2-4 for people being quiet only applies to a small percentage of players. But it’s not the players that are important. In fact they’re the least important links in the chain if they’re even aware of it at all. You need everyone involved at the upper (and some middle) levels of the NFL front office, all the refs, all the techs that setup and monitor communications, office workers and over the years hundreds or thousands of people whose legacy and/or family concerns are involved. Even then, as we see in other NDA situations, there are ALWAYS leaks. Always.

As for profit sharing, again, billionaires don’t like sharing. Does being screwed out of 1-3 home playoff games and all the additional monies that come along with having one of the top tier teams? Jersey and mercy sales, increased attendance and the ability to raise prices as sustained success increases demand.
It’s beyond ludicrous to believe this conspiracy can exist with all the possibilities for leaks or tell-alls. It’s pure fantasy that completely ignores human behavior. Using “there was one guy but he didn’t want to talk about it” as some kind of proof is barrly even worth mentioning.

Would a couple of coaches saying its fake help you believe? The Clevland Browns and Miami head coach admitted it a couple of years back. So yeah, you are right there are leaks. Plus plenty of players have said its rigged.

Look into it, its worth the time.

 

[renofox]

I agree games are steered.

I don't agree that it's rigged.

Refs always seem to add a few points to their chosen team's score, but it is almost always possible to outplay the refs' influence.

The Seahawks were outplayed this game, and would have lost even without the refs helping TB/TB.

 

[keasley45]

From someone who was there, this game was about as frustrating to watch as our first superbowl. Not just the calls on the field, but the over the top hype of the bucs during the game.

From the stadium sound guys continually interrupting the Hawks fans chants... but letting the bucs go, to the refs ignoring blatant holds from both of tampa's lines...to the in house cameras featuring pretty much exclusively tampa fans... i get that it was supposed to be a 'home game' for tampa, but Jesus. It was over the top biased.

It's a shame that we didn't help ourselves in reverting to smaller fronts against the run, which allowed tampa to just gash us over and over again( although it shouldn't have been as bad as it was had the refs called the game even).
And Geno played well to close out the game, but seemed very apprehensive this game for some reason, holding the ball too long on a few occassions and not running for a key first in the 2nd qtr.

Shane didn't have his best game either. It's hard to be too critical because I think that against better run defenses, our interior line play isn't great. We just can't open up lanes inside. Well, they are there, but close quickly, and for all the great things Walker does,hitting that sliver of daylight the way Carson used to is not one of them. The stretch plays are great on occassion, but can't substitute a solid inside run game. Don't know what to do about it other than invest a high pick in a center next year, which is a shame, because from an xs and os perspective, Blythe is great.

But all that aside, and other than me having the occasional Ptsd attack in my seat for seeing all the red paint on the grass and Brady jerseys in the stands ( between neutral fans and a combined force of Tampa and NE fans supporting the Bucs) and the stadium sound and vid guys jobbing our fans, making our german, home field advantage was basically a draw, it really was a cool experience.

On the positive, I still think we had the better team. We just weren't good enough to overcome our few weaknesses, a poor strategy on O and D with the refs pulling for Team Brady. Hopefully it's a good wakeup call for the young guys going into the break. We will likely need to come close to running the table to keep ahead of the 9ers.

A Dub would have been nice though.

 

[StoneCold]

You realize that in your scenario, other billionaires have to agree to be given the short stick and have their bottom line affected. It also requires that hundreds, if not thousands, of people have to have kept the secret for 30+ years. I am not a billionaire but have a hard time believing that any of them are willing to bear the brunt of a guided league and all the lost money that entails. It's beyond fantasyland to buy into this.

Our country is in deep trouble.

 

[Spohawks]

I agree games are steered.

I don't agree that it's rigged.

Refs always seem to add a few points to their chosen team's score, but it is almost always possible to outplay the refs' influence.

The Seahawks were outplayed this game, and would have lost even without the refs helping TB/TB.

Any "Steering, influence, adding or taking away of anything" is rigging. The refs have bosses and those bosses have bosses. Once the refs doesn't do as they are told, they are fired...just like any other job.

 

[DarkVictory23]

I don't buy a grand conspiracy against us. I would believe, however, that it was emphasized to these officials about throwing as few discretionary flags as possible.

The penalties ignored at the LOS were multitude. It was one of the most lax officiating displays I've ever seen and Tampa sold out on pushing it as far as possible. They played the game as if holding wasn't a penalty in this league and the refs rewarded them for it.

I wish Seahawks would have adjusted as well.

 

[renofox]

Any "Steering, influence, adding or taking away of anything" is rigging. The refs have bosses and those bosses have bosses. Once the refs doesn't do as they are told, they are fired...just like any other job.

Semantics difference, I guess. imo "rigging" makes sure you CANNOT win, "steering" is when they make it really tough for you to win.

 

[Spohawks]

Semantics difference, I guess. imo "rigging" makes sure you CANNOT win, "steering" is when they make it really tough for you to win.

I get what you are saying. What is the use of impacting a game without a goal in mind?

Vegas isn't cashing in on games that were close to what they bet on, they need a specific number or a win. IMO, its rigged and those spacific numbers/wins/stats are hit on a regular basis.

Also remember the profit sharing. If Brady makes it to the Playoffs, it will pay out more to the Hawks than 1 single win by the Seahawks. Hawks ownership wants to lose.

Imagine being an owner of a rigged game. Its not your kid out there, there is no emotions involved, just a ton of cash to be made. As Jerry Jones said "I have had a lot of talks with myself in the mirror".

The whole thing can be confusing but profit is why they own the team. Most emotions from ownership is fake. Actors get paid to act and so do owners.

 

[cymatica]

. You need everyone involved at the upper (and some middle) levels of the NFL front office, all the refs, all the techs that setup and monitor communications, office workers and over the years hundreds or thousands of people whose legacy and/or family concerns are involved. Even then, as we see in other NDA situations, there are ALWAYS leaks. Always.

That's a false assumption that skeptics always apply to anything conspiratorial. You only need a relatively small number of people in certain positions to be in on it. This applies to business and government. The few leakers who may have proof can easily be shut up or coerced by various methods. This is an indisputable fact of world history.

Most people don't want to risk their livelihood or reputation that may be on the line by standing up to the machine, that is human nature.

 

[AubHawk71]

The owners have an incentive to put a Good Product on the field, so part of the guise of "parity" is that the refs may or may not keep the game close depending on the sales and marketing algorithms. The Seahawks, lost this one fair and square for the NFL, but unless you had $100 on the Hawks, you have no reason to complain. The fact that the NFL is aggressively promoting betting on the games when it's obvious that they have a certain amount of control on the outcome should be a red flag for anyone who has been around the block. Keep betting and complaining though, it won't make the rich richer!

 

[keasley45]

It's not difficult to tilt a game toward a more 'competitive' and entertaining outcome. The NFL knows that a immobile Brady who is afforded a little time to work his magic via an overlooked hold or two results in a far more entertaining game for the fans than one that is lopsided and sees #12 on his back and throwing ducks up for grabs.

 

[AubHawk71]

It's not difficult to tilt a game toward a more 'competitive' and entertaining outcome. The NFL knows that a immobile Brady who is afforded a little time to work his magic via an overlooked hold or two results in a far more entertaining game for the fans than one that is lopsided and sees #12 on his back and throwing ducks up for grabs.

And the twice-tried throw to Brady for a TD was a made for TV/highlight reel/handies all around obvious play. So dumb.

I can take an insult on my intelligence for entertainment purposes, but not against my team.

 

[keasley45]

The kickoff time isn’t a feasible excuse. They left on Wednesday, they had 3 full days to acclimate. Tampa had a 3 hour shorter adjustment to make, that’s a completely negligible advantage over the course of 72 hours.

Mmmm. I don't think that's true. I've made the trip back abd forth between the US and Germany too many times to count. Sometimes, my body acclimates well and I'm able to function near 100% at work right away. And other times (like this August), I maintained close to the same routine, but I was still exhausted going into my second week. And I'm just a design guy. The early start can absolutley mess with your body rhythm. And even if you do the right things in transitioning zones, if you haven't gotten adequate rest in the days prior to leaving or don't get adequate rest when you arrive for a da or two, it can take a lot longer than 4 days to adjust. Add to that, to play in this lesgue, these guys are expected to have their body and mind functioning at an extremely high level... little room for error.

Getting in country 3 days in advance isn't the great elixir it seems.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

Would a couple of coaches saying its fake help you believe? The Clevland Browns and Miami head coach admitted it a couple of years back. So yeah, you are right there are leaks. Plus plenty of players have said its rigged.

Look into it, its worth the time.

You talking about Flowers? That’s not remotely comparable. That’s a single team interested in deliberately losing games, allegedly. Has nothing to do with a conspiracy from above to control the success of all teams for a pre-determined narrative.

 

[FattyKnuckle]

Mmmm. I don't think that's true. I've made the trip back abd forth between the US and Germany too many times to count. Sometimes, my body acclimates well and I'm able to function near 100% at work right away. And other times (like this August), I maintained close to the same routine, but I was still exhausted going into my second week. And I'm just a design guy. The early start can absolutley mess with your body rhythm. And even if you do the right things in transitioning zones, if you haven't gotten adequate rest in the days prior to leaving or don't get adequate rest when you arrive for a da or two, it can take a lot longer than 4 days to adjust. Add to that, to play in this lesgue, these guys are expected to have their body and mind functioning at an extremely high level... little room for error.

Getting in country 3 days in advance isn't the great elixir it seems.

I was more speaking to the idea that Tampa had an advantage over us because their adjustment was 3 hours shorter.