Some head scratching decisions by our front office

[pehawk]

Hans, you're kind of missing the point. Alex Smith, specifically, hit's TE's. You know why? Because he takes what's there and his arm isn't the greatest. Ask Vernon Davis. Ask John Carlson why Seneca got him a contract he never deserved. Michael Vick should still be receiving a percentage of Carlester Crumpler's one big contract.

McGrath wouldn't have matched that production here. He just wouldn't have. It's negligent to make the case he would, by using KC's offense as evidence.

 

[kearly]

I thought the McGrath decision was a head scratcher but it's not because he's got 15 catches in KC. If Pete thought McGrath was waiver wire safe he was a fool, and if he thought we could get through an entire season with our double TE offense with just two TEs on the roster, he's an even bigger fool. That said, McGrath is still the same guy. Decent receiver, bad blocker. Had we kept him, I doubt he'd have given us any more receiving help than Davis has. And Davis is a better blocker. I'm glad for McGrath, but I think everything worked out on the TE front. Now if Davis could just stop with the penalties...

 

[pehawk]

There's NOTHING wrong with Davis, actually. Peep's need to put aside the penalties, he's more than serviceable. We all forgive Sweezy and Willson's two "WTH?" plays a game, why not Davis?

Oh, I get it, its his last name. You racists.

 

[DavidSeven]

Personally, I think cutting McGrath was partially a gamble that didn't work (didn't pass through the wire) and also partially Cable, once again, getting a little too cute with personnel. They wanted to experiment by lining Mike Person up as the "TE." The Carolina game confirmed this wasn't going to work for our offense, and they swiftly dropped him after Week 1. If they could do it all over again, I'm quite sure they would have kept McGrath instead.

 

[AgentDib]

if he thought we could get through an entire season with our double TE offense with just two TEs on the roster, he's an even bigger fool

I would say that Harvin's acquisition cuts way back on our usage of ?2 personnel. His ability out of the backfield obviates the need for a second TE blocking on third downs and will punish teams that get overzealous on the pass rush. We already see teams playing more conservative on the rush trying to keep Wilson penned in the pocket, and the potential for a screen to Harvin is only going to amplify their concerns.

I also differ from many here in thinking that lining Harvin up on the outside occasionally is going to open things up for the running game. He had success on dig/post routes in Minnesota with Ponder throwing him the ball. If Wilson rolls out in that direction once or twice on a play action, it will give defenses second and third thoughts about cheating towards the run even if they are sure it is coming.

 

[Subzero717]

There's NOTHING wrong with Davis, actually. Peep's need to put aside the penalties, he's more than serviceable. We all forgive Sweezy and Willson's two "WTH?" plays a game, why not Davis?

Oh, I get it, its his last name. You racists.

What does he do correctly?

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

I don't think Cable was trying to get cute.

The team or Cable likes 10 0-linemen on the roster. Cable said that in one of his interviews.

Most of us just thought the team would only keep 9 though.

The problem with Person is that he was kept , because Michael Bowie was injured. Once Bowie proved he was good to go, I think the week during the game vs San Fran. Person was cut.

If any TE3 was going to make the team, it wouldn't have been Mcgrath, who was a slow but quality pass-catcher and sub-par blocker, it would have been Cooper Helfet, who looked to be a more athletic receiver, even acrobatic, and at 20 pounds less was a better blocker than McGrath.

I don't think the team cared what happened to McGrath one bit, however I'm thinking they released both because they knew one would likely get picked up and one wouldn't. And it was the guy who had the better hands and quality route-running ability. Seahawks got the guy with the better potential although he may never see the field anytime soon because of his similarities to Luke Wilson.

Kellen Davis is also bigger, faster, stronger, and more athletic... not just over McGrath but Anthony McCoy. Davis possesses so-so pass catching ability but he's clutch at churning the catches he does make into first downs or TDs (from his time in Chicago). But he's a big strong body with a lot blocking experience, I am also not surprised to see him on the Seahawks because of it. But like any player who is going from team to team, it would be reasonable to believe that there is a adjusting period to build up chemistry and get comfortable within the offense which is probably a little different from anything he's seen in Chicago or Cleveland. With the ZBS, Russell Wilson, and all the different schemes and formations Bevell uses.

McGrath wouldn't haven't been a productive asset here, merely because his blocking ability is adequately horrible from where it needed to be within our offense. McGrath would only be a slow plodder good at finding soft zones in the middle of defenses that Wilson will never see 75% of the time.

 

[BocciHawk]

I'm totally willing to give the FO a free pass on McGrath.

I do not expect them to hit on 10 out of 10 decisions.

9 out of 10 puts them light years ahead of the rest of the NFL.

6 out of 10 puts them ahead of pretty much every random forum poster...

They have to make decisions all the time with incomplete information and based on gut feel and what they think will happen. They'll be wrong periodically. It's how often that's the question, not if, but how much.

I'm perfectly satisfied with how often they are wrong. (Not often!)

 

[CANHawk]

McGrath was a nice player, but nothing altogether special. Pe hit the nail on the head about him being the biggest benneficiary of Alex "dink n dunk" Smith and the Andy Reid west coast offense. TE is always going to be a star under those circumstances.

I get what Pandion is saying about Davis, he totally looks the part, but I just haven't seen it on the field yet. He's either been invisible or looked like a liability out there. I'd rather see Cooper Helfet still on the team. That dude is a baller. Be nice if he had just a little more mass to really stick guys as a blocker. But really... and there's some people who might strongly disagree with this... but the offense is really missing Anthony McCoy right now. There's just something about that dude that makes him a perfect #2 TE in this offense.

 

[pehawk]

I miss McCoy simply because he didn't make Carpenter the slowest player on the team.

 

[Bigpumpkin]

I miss McCoy simply because he didn't make Carpenter the slowest player on the team.

Now...that's cruel!

 

[MontanaHawk05]

It's illogical to assume that McGrath would be catching 4 balls a game if he were still here. Maybe, maybe not. Our offense has a lot of other problems that KC doesn't.

 

[HansGruber]

I thought the McGrath decision was a head scratcher but it's not because he's got 15 catches in KC. If Pete thought McGrath was waiver wire safe he was a fool, and if he thought we could get through an entire season with our double TE offense with just two TEs on the roster, he's an even bigger fool. That said, McGrath is still the same guy. Decent receiver, bad blocker. Had we kept him, I doubt he'd have given us any more receiving help than Davis has. And Davis is a better blocker. I'm glad for McGrath, but I think everything worked out on the TE front. Now if Davis could just stop with the penalties...

Pete Carroll said on Brock and Danny that's exactly what they were hoping. Makes sense actually because was on the practice squad last season as well. But it was a poor decision because McGrath played great in the preseason and got his shot.

And I'm sorry, but where are you getting the stuff about his blocking? Andy Reid has been praising his skills as a blocker, and so did Pete Carroll when he mentioned him in the interview - said McGrath was very well-rounded and balanced, good hands and proficient blocking. Rob Rang said he was balanced and the best TE of our group. The only reports I've seen negative about his blocking were pre-draft. I've been watching every Chiefs game and have seen him blow up a number of DLs and LBs on blocking assignments. On one play, he knocked the hell out of a blitzing LB (literally knocked the dude on his butt) and then picked up 25 yards and a first down - on 2nd and long, about 15 I think. I'm starting to wonder if everyone here is basing their opinions of McGrath on his time as a Seahawk only.

And it's kinda silly to say he wouldn't be successful here. He'd be perfect for us. This guy has been playing like a maniac in KC and they're saying he'll probably be getting starting reps even when the regulars come back. Look at his catches. He's been getting a lot of short passes, about 10 yards from the LOS, and then picking up another 10-15 yards after the catch. I've seen him breaking tackles better than Miller and Willson by a significant margin. Willson's only had a couple plays where he was able to break tackles and pick up a difficult first. McGrath has already had like 5-6.

You can say, "well, that was a different QB." Doesn't matter. He has shown the ability to pick up difficult yards and convert short passes into long gains. That is a skill we could use right now. Unlike Rice last week, he has shown an ability to fight for the ball and come up with it. I watched a LB bounce off the guy when they were both going up for a pass, then McGrath came down with it and took off. The guy has talent, and would have that same talent no matter what team he played for. Just because Wilson is QB doesn't mean he wouldn't still be able to make difficult catches and pick up yards. Look at that catch he made in the preseason where he snagged a pass while sliding on both knees and picked up the TD. That would have been an incompletion with Miller or Willson.

From Carroll's interview, it really sounded like the team liked McGrath a lot. But he said they needed help on the DL due to all the injuries and suspensions so they had no choice. I'm really not understanding where everyone on the board is coming up with the idea that Seattle didn't like McGrath or cut him. They didn't. They waived him and were going to sign him back to the practice squad, per Pete Carroll himself in multiple interviews. Pete wasn't lying when he said they liked him and it was obvious. So I'm not getting where people are coming up with that.

 

[HansGruber]

I don't think the team cared what happened to McGrath one bit, however I'm thinking they released both because they knew one would likely get picked up and one wouldn't. And it was the guy who had the better hands and quality route-running ability. Seahawks got the guy with the better potential although he may never see the field anytime soon because of his similarities to Luke Wilson.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Why would another team's GM choose the less-talented available players? If your statements were accurate, McGrath wouldn't have been picked off the waiver wire within minutes of being waived. Especially not by a team like KC that already had strong talent at the position.

This board gets carried away with the homerism sometimes. And by the way, for the 40th time, McGrath wasn't released, he was waived. Because Carroll and Schneider were hoping to stash him on the practice squad. Carroll explicity said this to Brock and Danny on 710AM. They needed bodies on the defensive line and were hoping to stash McGrath on the practice squad the first few weeks of the season until they got some of the starters back at DE/DT.

And if McGrath is such a sub-par blocker and average receiver, why is Andy Reid saying in press conferences that he's been impressed with McGrath enough that he's going to continue to get starting reps even when Fasano comes back? And does anyone here even realize that McGrath blocks on a TON of downs for the Chiefs? Andy Reid sat there yapping about it last week after McGrath got his first TD, said the kid has done a phenomenal job picking up blocks for Smith and still making plays.

I'm done with this conversation. It's obvious to me that everyone on this board is just like fans of other teams. We only care about our own team, we make excuses for everything the coaches do, and if they make a mistake it's always the fault of the player. McGrath could go to the Hall of Fame and there'd still be people here saying Willson is a better fit for our system.
:roll:

It's just ludicrous to call McGrath's receiving skills "average". Just tells me whoever is saying that has not watched one single KC game this season. It's like the Panthers fans who were saying Russell Wilson is just a running QB and doesn't have an arm.

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Either way Hans, even if you have coaches saying this or that about McGrath, in my opinion from watching pre-season, is that McGrath was probably TE4 behind Zach Miller, Luke Willson, and Cooper Helfet.

Luke and Cooper were more dynamic, more athletic at receiver, and both despite being 10-20 pounds less looked to be quality blockers over McGrath.

So even if Carroll praised McGrath, still doesn't mean others on the team didn't look better.

If McGrath was such a stud like you're painting him out to be, the team would have found a way to keep him, period.

And the part where I said the team could care less about McGrath, is that the team cut both, we thought at least one of them would make it to practice squad. I don't think they cared which one. McGrath is probably the better player know with great hands and quality route-running but I still think Helfet has more potential as a WR, and if he can put some mass on, his blocking ability would be solid.

 

[lukerguy]

On a team needy for OL/TE depth, I cannot and will never understand the McGrath drop.

 

[lukerguy]

Either way Hans, even if you have coaches saying this or that about McGrath, in my opinion from watching pre-season, is that McGrath was probably TE4 behind Zach Miller, Luke Willson, and Cooper Helfet.

Luke and Cooper were more dynamic, more athletic at receiver, and both despite being 10-20 pounds less looked to be quality blockers over McGrath.

So even if Carroll praised McGrath, still doesn't mean others on the team didn't look better.

If McGrath was such a stud like you're painting him out to be, the team would have found a way to keep him, period.

And the part where I said the team could care less about McGrath, is that the team cut both, we thought at least one of them would make it to practice squad. I don't think they cared which one. McGrath is probably the better player know with great hands and quality route-running but I still think Helfet has more potential as a WR, and if he can put some mass on, his blocking ability would be solid.

zero chance McGrath was behind Helfet. Zero.

 

[lukerguy]

I don't think the team cared what happened to McGrath one bit, however I'm thinking they released both because they knew one would likely get picked up and one wouldn't. And it was the guy who had the better hands and quality route-running ability. Seahawks got the guy with the better potential although he may never see the field anytime soon because of his similarities to Luke Wilson.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Why would another team's GM choose the less-talented available players? If your statements were accurate, McGrath wouldn't have been picked off the waiver wire within minutes of being waived. Especially not by a team like KC that already had strong talent at the position.

This board gets carried away with the homerism sometimes. And by the way, for the 40th time, McGrath wasn't released, he was waived. Because Carroll and Schneider were hoping to stash him on the practice squad. Carroll explicity said this to Brock and Danny on 710AM. They needed bodies on the defensive line and were hoping to stash McGrath on the practice squad the first few weeks of the season until they got some of the starters back at DE/DT.

And if McGrath is such a sub-par blocker and average receiver, why is Andy Reid saying in press conferences that he's been impressed with McGrath enough that he's going to continue to get starting reps even when Fasano comes back? And does anyone here even realize that McGrath blocks on a TON of downs for the Chiefs? Andy Reid sat there yapping about it last week after McGrath got his first TD, said the kid has done a phenomenal job picking up blocks for Smith and still making plays.

I'm done with this conversation. It's obvious to me that everyone on this board is just like fans of other teams. We only care about our own team, we make excuses for everything the coaches do, and if they make a mistake it's always the fault of the player. McGrath could go to the Hall of Fame and there'd still be people here saying Willson is a better fit for our system.
:roll:

It's just ludicrous to call McGrath's receiving skills "average". Just tells me whoever is saying that has not watched one single KC game this season. It's like the Panthers fans who were saying Russell Wilson is just a running QB and doesn't have an arm.

I'm with you here, man.

 

[SonicHawk]

I don't think the team cared what happened to McGrath one bit, however I'm thinking they released both because they knew one would likely get picked up and one wouldn't. And it was the guy who had the better hands and quality route-running ability. Seahawks got the guy with the better potential although he may never see the field anytime soon because of his similarities to Luke Wilson.

I'm sorry, but this makes no sense. Why would another team's GM choose the less-talented available players? If your statements were accurate, McGrath wouldn't have been picked off the waiver wire within minutes of being waived. Especially not by a team like KC that already had strong talent at the position.

This board gets carried away with the homerism sometimes. And by the way, for the 40th time, McGrath wasn't released, he was waived. Because Carroll and Schneider were hoping to stash him on the practice squad. Carroll explicity said this to Brock and Danny on 710AM. They needed bodies on the defensive line and were hoping to stash McGrath on the practice squad the first few weeks of the season until they got some of the starters back at DE/DT.

And if McGrath is such a sub-par blocker and average receiver, why is Andy Reid saying in press conferences that he's been impressed with McGrath enough that he's going to continue to get starting reps even when Fasano comes back? And does anyone here even realize that McGrath blocks on a TON of downs for the Chiefs? Andy Reid sat there yapping about it last week after McGrath got his first TD, said the kid has done a phenomenal job picking up blocks for Smith and still making plays.

I'm done with this conversation. It's obvious to me that everyone on this board is just like fans of other teams. We only care about our own team, we make excuses for everything the coaches do, and if they make a mistake it's always the fault of the player. McGrath could go to the Hall of Fame and there'd still be people here saying Willson is a better fit for our system.
:roll:

It's just ludicrous to call McGrath's receiving skills "average". Just tells me whoever is saying that has not watched one single KC game this season. It's like the Panthers fans who were saying Russell Wilson is just a running QB and doesn't have an arm.

So, Hans... knowing why they waived McGrath, how would you ahve handled it differently?

 

[SeaTown81]

The Hawks front office hits big because they swing for the fences. They don't play it safe. A home run hitter also strikes out a lot because he's going for the fences. Same is going to happen when you make bold moves like the Hawks do.

You're not going to get the massive finds like Wilson and Sherman without some whiffs like Chris Harper or EJ Wilson. And it's not just the draft. The same goes for cuts and roster construction. You can't ask to have it both ways.

You can't want your front office to be bold and original, also while not doing anything that could remotely backfire on them. As a fan, you need to be willing to expect and understand this. Otherwise you're asking for your front office to play it safe and make Tim Ruskell-like selections.

I'm sorry if I'm crapping over the premise of this entire thread. And I'm not saying we can't make comments like, "Too bad we cut McGrath". But it's silly to go too far in nit-picking fringe roster moves when the overall product and team building is working as well as it is.