So NBA player Jason Collins is gay.

[ClumsyLurk]

Wingspan is important for the bears, too short of arms eliminates the reach around.

 

[Spokane]

Seems like the only way it "creates a tough spot" is for people who are uncomfortable around homosexuality. That's on them, isn't it?

I can see what you are saying but not in real life. The owners have so much money, power and people loving up on them for all the good they do...the LAST thing anyone of them wants is their named dragged through the mud. That is why companies have so many different levels of managment however only one guy at the top is really in charge.

Church and Golf
The owners have so much cash and so little time left in life that all they want to do is give and play!
This topic will be laughed at the club house and questioned at church (even though nobody should judge)
These two areas can be everything to these owners! They are unwilling to have one pawn create a joke at the owners expense in the locker room at the club house....aint going to happen!

Clemons said it was bad for the team, in real time it puts one guy above the rest (Think Tebow). He knows and lives through it. We can't question someone who is walking in his shoes without looking blind.

Sales will go down. Jokes will go up. Nobody wants to be the butt of a joke...the team who picks up a gay is DONE!
Fans are no joke, they will bring the heat to the whole team. ALL DAY, would you want that? Nobody wants to deal with other people's crap. You think the locker room will be a sweet place for him after getting the team cussed out everytime they walk out?

Like Clemons said, its selfish to "come out" and I think the gays understand that - so they don't.

 

[jkitsune]

I strongly disagree with your perception, Spokane, but you've taken pains to present it in a reasonable light so I'll try my best to respond in a reasonable light.

Clearly there is going to be some difficulty for the first gay player and the first team with an openly gay player. In my opinion, this is absolutely no different than the first black player and the first team with a black player. Was that 'selfish' because race was brought into the sport? Or was that a wholly positive thing for the sport in the long run? I would argue the latter. Fear and hatred of homosexuality in the public at large should not be a reason for players to feel they need to hide the fact that they're gay, and while I don't think that a player's homosexuality should be newsworthy, it currently is. And it won't stop being newsworthy until we stop making the same heteronormative assumptions.

So while I agree that it will cause some difficulties in the short run, that doesn't mean that in the long run this isn't a battle worth having. I'm glad he's out. I hope he lands on a team, because this is a fight worth having.

 

[TwilightError]

Having the first black player was a big issue, so is the first openly gay player. I hope Collins gets signed. That way the step has truly been taken and we are a lot closer to the goal, which is the point where this will be a non-issue. Collins will be remembered as an important man, and rightly so.

 

[AbsolutNET]

Seems like the only way it "creates a tough spot" is for people who are uncomfortable around homosexuality. That's on them, isn't it?

I can see what you are saying but not in real life...

So a gay athlete should pretend to be straight until he is out of the league? He isn't allowed to engage in an open romantic relationship while playing?

 

[Spokane]

I strongly disagree with your perception, Spokane, but you've taken pains to present it in a reasonable light so I'll try my best to respond in a reasonable light.

Clearly there is going to be some difficulty for the first gay player and the first team with an openly gay player. In my opinion, this is absolutely no different than the first black player and the first team with a black player. Was that 'selfish' because race was brought into the sport? Or was that a wholly positive thing for the sport in the long run? I would argue the latter. Fear and hatred of homosexuality in the public at large should not be a reason for players to feel they need to hide the fact that they're gay, and while I don't think that a player's homosexuality should be newsworthy, it currently is. And it won't stop being newsworthy until we stop making the same heteronormative assumptions.

So while I agree that it will cause some difficulties in the short run, that doesn't mean that in the long run this isn't a battle worth having. I'm glad he's out. I hope he lands on a team, because this is a fight worth having.

Yes the first of anything is tough and controversial! The key to this whole topic is that the media wants this to happen not the sports world. Everybody and their dog are hush hush on this topic from the teams, but ESPN is pulling up statements from a free agent. The teams know that this would be a bad thing, or else why not talk about it?

The BIG idea out there is the moment that a team says yes to a gay, they are forcing the fans to pick between the Bible and supporting that players actions. If the concern is true the owners know It will be a ghost city in the stands. That idea may seem like a small issue to you but I believe the owners have done the research and put the muzzle on!

 

[AbsolutNET]

Seems like the only way it "creates a tough spot" is for people who are uncomfortable around homosexuality. That's on them, isn't it?

I can see what you are saying but not in real life. The owners have so much money, power and people loving up on them for all the good they do...the LAST thing anyone of them wants is their named dragged through the mud. That is why companies have so many different levels of managment however only one guy at the top is really in charge.

Church and Golf
The owners have so much cash and so little time left in life that all they want to do is give and play!
This topic will be laughed at the club house and questioned at church (even though nobody should judge)
These two areas can be everything to these owners! They are unwilling to have one pawn create a joke at the owners expense in the locker room at the club house....aint going to happen!

Clemons said it was bad for the team, in real time it puts one guy above the rest (Think Tebow). He knows and lives through it. We can't question someone who is walking in his shoes without looking blind.

Sales will go down. Jokes will go up. Nobody wants to be the butt of a joke...the team who picks up a gay is DONE!
Fans are no joke, they will bring the heat to the whole team. ALL DAY, would you want that? Nobody wants to deal with other people's crap. You think the locker room will be a sweet place for him after getting the team cussed out everytime they walk out?

Like Clemons said, its selfish to "come out" and I think the gays understand that - so they don't.

You'd heckle a player for being gay?

 

[volsunghawk]

The BIG idea out there is the moment that a team says yes to a gay, they are forcing the fans to pick between the Bible and supporting that players actions. If the concern is true the owners know It will be a ghost city in the stands. That idea may seem like a small issue to you but I believe the owners have done the research and put the muzzle on!

This may be one of the stupidest things ever posted.

No, no one will force fans to pick between their dogma and supporting a team. Supporting a team doesn't mean supporting every single act committed or belief held by its players.

Do you support domestic violence and DUIs? Hope you weren't rooting for the Seahawks any time in the last few years, then. See how dumb that is?

The only people who will be truly affected by this are those folks who are small-minded. Everyone else should be able to handle it just fine.

By the way, Clemons' argument wasn't about the player being openly gay. It was about the media sensation around the coming out. That was the distraction he was talking about wanting to avoid. At least, that's how it read to me.

 

[SonicHawk]

It's not selfish for a gay player to come out. It's selfish of you to care that much about it.

This is how it should go:

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my boyfriend John"
You: "Hi, John, so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

You want to try it with a straight player?

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my girlfriend Shananay"
You: "Hi, Shanananananay? so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

 

[Uncle Si]

It's not selfish for a gay player to come out. It's selfish of you to care that much about it.

This is how it should go:

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my boyfriend John"
You: "Hi, John, so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

You want to try it with a straight player?

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my girlfriend Shananay"
You: "Hi, Shanananananay? so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

there is some merit to this (rather simple little hypothetical conversation)... while the ESPN generation (anyone over 30 to about 50 really) is consumed/concerned/falling over backwards to accept or reject the notion of a homosexual in sports, our children are growing up without the same reservations.
While Collins step up might be lauded (or criticized) by an aging adult generation, it seems the kids of today just dont care.
I may be off, but I just think that Collins stepped through a door that a decade from now wont even be something we look back on as "brave". That generation has already learned to accept it (popularly atleast).

Or am I off?

 

[Spokane]

Seems like the only way it "creates a tough spot" is for people who are uncomfortable around homosexuality. That's on them, isn't it?

I can see what you are saying but not in real life...

So a gay athlete should pretend to be straight until he is out of the league? He isn't allowed to engage in an open romantic relationship while playing?

Owners answer: Uh No.
Who else really matters?

 

[Sac]

It's not selfish for a gay player to come out. It's selfish of you to care that much about it.

This is how it should go:

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my boyfriend John"
You: "Hi, John, so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

You want to try it with a straight player?

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my girlfriend Shananay"
You: "Hi, Shanananananay? so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

This

 

[SonicHawk]

It's not selfish for a gay player to come out. It's selfish of you to care that much about it.

This is how it should go:

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my boyfriend John"
You: "Hi, John, so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

You want to try it with a straight player?

NFL Player: "Hi, this is my girlfriend Shananay"
You: "Hi, Shanananananay? so NFL Player, way to grab an interception for a TD last night!"

there is some merit to this (rather simple little hypothetical conversation)... while the ESPN generation (anyone over 30 to about 50 really) is consumed/concerned/falling over backwards to accept or reject the notion of a homosexual in sports, our children are growing up without the same reservations.
While Collins step up might be lauded (or criticized) by an aging adult generation, it seems the kids of today just dont care.
I may be off, but I just think that Collins stepped through a door that a decade from now wont even be something we look back on as "brave". That generation has already learned to accept it (popularly atleast).

Or am I off?

Each generation is generally more accepting, but only because the media takes steps to show all sexuality, genders and races as equal. The big story is when a major superstar comes out as gay. Not that there is necessarily one as there are only a few superstars it might not be for awhile.

If it's not a big story to you, that's a good thing. But it is a big story and will be for awhile. Sexuality is something most of us don't understand. You don't necessarily see the differences in sexuality unless it's openly presented to you. I never remember watching Jason Collins and thinking he's gay however it was obvious he was black.

 

[jkitsune]

Yes the first of anything is tough and controversial! The key to this whole topic is that the media wants this to happen not the sports world. Everybody and their dog are hush hush on this topic from the teams, but ESPN is pulling up statements from a free agent. The teams know that this would be a bad thing, or else why not talk about it?

The BIG idea out there is the moment that a team says yes to a gay, they are forcing the fans to pick between the Bible and supporting that players actions. If the concern is true the owners know It will be a ghost city in the stands. That idea may seem like a small issue to you but I believe the owners have done the research and put the muzzle on!

I don't think it's at all true that the 'sports world' doesn't want this to happen. There's plenty of outspoken athletes and owners who have strong feelings on this. I don't think teams 'know' this would be a bad thing - that statement alone implies that, objectively, this is a 'bad' thing. I don't see how confronting bigotry is a 'bad' thing. It's a scary thing, sure, but those two words are not synonymous.

Someone else has already pointed out how bizarre the 'Bible or team' argument is, and if you honestly think a team will fail economically because a single player on it is gay, I think you're wildly over-estimating the percentage of people who are fervent enough in their anti-gay beliefs, particularly enough to REFUSE to support a team with a single player on it who does something they disagree with.

I also am not sure what 'research' you're talking about. I'm honestly not sure you know what you're talking about. There's no 'research' that the owners could have done. They haven't 'polled the audience.' People are afraid, and that makes sense.

I get the impression that you have very strong reservations about an openly gay athlete, and I respect that you're trying to present them in a well-reasoned way, but I honestly cannot comprehend the words you are saying. They don't make sense to me. They are laced with an assumption that, fundamentally, having an openly gay active athlete is bad or disruptive. I understand that you separate this from your belief of what a person should be allowed to do on their own time, and I respect that distinction. I think you're trying to communicate that you have misgivings about this issue but that you think gay people should be allowed to do whatever they want behind closed doors, which is different than being 'anti-gay,' and I respect that. But I'm not sure I really understand the logic in your argument.

Go Hawks.

 

[Sac]

Spokane doesn't want big name players coming out because he doesn't want to face the reality that one day he too will have to do the same.

 

[InSuarezWeTrust]

TL;DR Why is this thread 5 pages long?

 

[jkitsune]

TL;DR Why is this thread 5 pages long?

Thanks for contributing.

 

[BASF]

The bible angle is interesting in that the only place in the bible that openly states anything against homosexuality is Leviticus, which also forbids tattooing. If people were going to heckle a homosexual due to the bible, why not someone who has tattoos? It just seems that people pick and choose whatever from the bible that they think fits their belief and comfort level.

 

[TwilightError]

I find it disgusting when people use the bible to justify their own bigotry. They are so insecure about themselves that they have to hide behind a book in order to display their hate. What they in fact do is put the blame of being a small minded little person on an entire religion, which is just wrong towards the decent loving people of the same religion. But the fact of the matter is, those people use money too, and that can be an issue to an NBA owner, especially in certain parts of the country. Hopefully Collins gets signed and the glass ceiling will be broken.

Edit: And I don't mean any of the participants in this discussion by that. Everyone has seemed very analytical, not raging emotional at all, which in typical for the type I described.

 

[Spokane]

Spokane doesn't want big name players coming out because he doesn't want to face the reality that one day he too will have to do the same.

LOL - First the guy is not a player with a team, or he would be cut. (Its why they can't find a gay on any team in any major sport today)
Money is bigger to this guy then being gay (or He would have popped out before he was a street walker)
So he is not a an amazing person, he just sold out to the media while he could.

Nosachawk doesn't want transgender folks to make it out cause he is a little concerened about his womans deep voice!

Word on the street is you don't have to defend something that is good...yeah 5 pages is to much.

Really - some street walker makes a gay comment and we are 5 pages deep. Tools of the Media man, tools of the media!

You would be blind if you don't think the bible people(same as owners) will not play a role in this...where else does it say that being gay is wrong? So who else would block any gay rights stuff.

Give me a real player that comes out and I will give you a real post, until then these street clowns do nothing but show people to stay in the closet.
The ones that come out are done! Any word on any teams picking this guy or that one football player up yet? Nadda!