Should We Trade Michael Bennett?

[jblaze]

Ridiculous question, of course not.

Truth is that we got him at a steal for $7.125m/yr. It's his fault he agreed to these terms, now he has to live by them! You can't ask to redo a contract one year into a four year deal.

Standard pointless rhetoric by him, he'll be there for mandatory camps, no question.

 

[volsunghawk]

No, he should not be traded. Doing so would be asinine.

Bennett is important to this defense, more important than a lot of folks here want to admit. Plus, the team has all the leverage right now.

Trading your best pass-rush threat just because he's disgruntled over his contract is just a dumb, dumb idea.

 

[hawknation2015]

Bennett says he wants to be paid like a top 8 player at his position. That means he wants $11 million, which is what Calais Campbell makes. Bennett currently makes $7.125 million. Getting Bennett up to $11 million would make him the 3rd highest paid player on our roster after Sherman and Lynch. He would be getting paid more than Earl Thomas and Jimmy Graham.

Bennett is insane.

Bennett wants money.. how is that insane?

Unrealistic is probably a better word, given all the facts. He signed a long-term contract just one year ago and made $10 million last year, including his signing bonus. He is currently playing on a guaranteed year of his contract that he elected to sign worth $6 million. According to Spotrac, that is the 12th highest paid salary for a 4-3 DE in 2015. Bennett has never produced a double-digit sack season, while every DE with a higher average annual salary has had at a minimum 12 sacks in a season. All but Chris Long and Junior Galette have had 50+ tackle seasons; Galette has really been more of a 3-4 OLB to this point. Watt also probably does not belong on this list as a 3-4 DE/DT. Mario Williams is moving back to 3-4 OLB this year, etc.

1. JJ Watt -- $16,666,667 APY, 20.5-sack-and-81-tackle season on resume
2. Mario Williams -- $16,000,000 APY, 14-sack-and-59-tackle season on resume
3. Jason Pierre Paul -- $14,813,000 APY, 16.5-sack-and-86-tackle season on resume
4. Robert Quinn -- $14,253,724 APY, 19-sack-and-57-tackle season on resume
5. Charles Johnson -- $12,666,667 APY, 12.5-sack-and-41-tackle season on resume, also 62 tackles and 11.5 sacks
6. Chris Long -- $12,050,000 APY, 13-sack-and-37-tackle season on resume
7. Greg Hardy -- $11,311,600 APY (only around $3 million guaranteed), 15-sack-and-59-tackle season on resume
8. Junior Galette -- $10,375,000 APY, 12-sack-and-40-tackle season on resume
9. DeMarcus Ware -- $10,000,000 APY, 20-sack-and-84-tackle season on resume
10. Everson Griffen -- $8,500,000 APY, 12-sack-and-57-tackle season on resume
11. Cameron Wake -- $8,300,000 APY, 15-sack-and-53-tackle season on resume
11. Jared Allen -- $8,300,000 APY, 22-sack-and-66-tackle season on resume
13. Cliff Avril -- $7,125,000 APY, 11-sack-and-36-tackle season on resume
13. Michael Bennett -- $7,125,000 APY, 9-sack-and-41-tackle season on resume

Bennett has had only one 40+ tackle season in his career: 41 tackles and 9.0 sacks in his final year with Tampa Bay, but he generated so little free agency interest after that season that he ended up signing a one-year "prove it" deal with the Seahawks. His tackle and sack totals then declined to 31 and 8.5, respectively, in 2013. Bennett started 16 games last season -- for only the 2nd time in his career -- but his sack total actually declined once again to seven to go along with 38 tackles. Given these facts, pressuring the team into giving him more money for a preexisting duty would be an act of bad faith.

 

[Uncle Si]

I don't disagree that Michael Bennett may be over valuing himself. Guy wants more money. Fine. I just don't understand the comic vitriol behind it.

It's not a big deal until he misses something mandatory.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

No, we should tell him to get his yappy mouth into camp and play football, and stop with this nonsense cause he has ZERO leverage.

Our D-line is already thin, and with Bruce more than likely leaving for free agency next year, it'll probably get thinner. So no, I don't think we should trade our best D-lineman who's locked up for another three years on a very team friendly contract just because he's unhappy.

If Bennett's unhappy, he has no one to blame but Rosenhaus and himself.

 

[Uncle Si]

.

Our D-line is already thin, and with Bruce more than likely leaving for free agency next year, it'll probably get thinner. So no, I don't think we should trade our best D-lineman who's locked up for another three years on a very team friendly contract just because he's unhappy.

this is exactly why he's asking for more money... his value to this team currently is far more than maybe people want to admit.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

.

Our D-line is already thin, and with Bruce more than likely leaving for free agency next year, it'll probably get thinner. So no, I don't think we should trade our best D-lineman who's locked up for another three years on a very team friendly contract just because he's unhappy.

this is exactly why he's asking for more money... his value to this team currently is far more than maybe people want to admit.

That is what he's saying, he said he role with the team is bigger than it was in 2013, and therefore = more money.

But again, if he and Rosenhaus didn't factor that into the negotiations in 2013 after they both knew damn well that the Hawk's weren't going to be able to keep guys like Clem and Big Red, then Rosenhaus is the worst agent of all time.

I'm all for players trying to leverage for more money, but that ship sailed for Bennett when he signed his deal. One year later is not the time to do this, which is why literally no one inside or outside the Hawk's camp is sympathizing with him.

 

[jammerhawk]

Ans: Nope.

Next question

 

[ivotuk]

Just because other teams foolishly overpay their defensive linemen doesn't mean the Seahawks should.

Most of those players (except for JJ Watt) are being overpaid by teams that will never go anywhere. He signed the contract and he got his guaranteed money. Time to put up and shut up.

What a lot of short-sighted players fail to see is that being on a Championship team has benefits outside of the contract that they sign. There are endorsements, talk show opportunities, financial benefits beyond their football career.

Just look at all the players from past Superbowl winners that are on TV in some capacity or other. Michael Bennett is perfect for that position, but if he gives himself a bad name, he won't be getting those opportunities in the future.

As to a trade? It depends on what is offered. A young, up and coming defensive lineman that Pete and John coveted from previous drafts, along with a relatively high draft pick would be worth the trade. Frank Clark is going to light it up, Bruce Irvin is in a contract year, Cliff Avril will be back, and we have some young, healthy and hungry players that started to come on last year.

It's a fun topic to discuss, but my guess is that Pete and John ignore the noise because nobody is going to give them enough compensation to make trading MB worth their while. And that has to be Bennett's goal, is to get traded. Why else make all this noise if it's not to see what the market will bear?

 

[brimsalabim]

Why do you guys keep saying that we have him on a bargain? Look at his actual stats from last season and then check where his pay ranks. He is paid about right and actually a bit high already. Statistically he wasn't even our best DE last season. I'm not saying that he isn't a very good player and I know there is more to this than stats but there are a lot of DL that could match the numbers he put up last season if backed up by the LOB.

 

[nanomoz]

Why do you guys keep saying that we have him on a bargain? Look at his actual stats from last season and then check where his pay ranks. He is paid about right and actually a bit high already. Statistically he wasn't even our best DE last season. I'm not saying that he isn't a very good player and I know there is more to this than stats but there are a lot of DL that could match the numbers he put up last season if backed up by the LOB.

I am looking at the stats. Good stats, not just sexy stats like sack numbers.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/23946/michael-bennett

Bennett is top-9 in tons of categories on FO. The only place he struggles (obviously) is with penalties. There's not a lot of players as good at everything as Bennett. That's why Frank Clark was valued so highly by this team, he has that kind of potential--valuable regardless of down and distance.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Why do you guys keep saying that we have him on a bargain? Look at his actual stats from last season and then check where his pay ranks. He is paid about right and actually a bit high already. Statistically he wasn't even our best DE last season. I'm not saying that he isn't a very good player and I know there is more to this than stats but there are a lot of DL that could match the numbers he put up last season if backed up by the LOB.

I think most experts agreed that the Hawk's got a little hometown deal when Bennett signed his new deal, and he probably could have gotten a little more if he went to free agency. That's not a stretch.

But he knew that, and was fine with it.

A more interesting conversation would be to ask why did his mood and opinion of his own situation change in only 12 months? Was it because we didn't trade for his brother? Because Quinn left? Because we lost the SB and now he can't run around saying he's on the best defense of all time?

All of the above for me.

 

[hawknation2015]

Why do you guys keep saying that we have him on a bargain? Look at his actual stats from last season and then check where his pay ranks. He is paid about right and actually a bit high already. Statistically he wasn't even our best DE last season. I'm not saying that he isn't a very good player and I know there is more to this than stats but there are a lot of DL that could match the numbers he put up last season if backed up by the LOB.

I am looking at the stats. Good stats, not just sexy stats like sack numbers.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/player/23946/michael-bennett

Bennett is top-9 in tons of categories on FO. The only place he struggles (obviously) is with penalties. There's not a lot of players as good at everything as Bennett. That's why Frank Clark was valued so highly by this team, he has that kind of potential--valuable regardless of down and distance.

Apparently, the "sexy stats like sack (and tackle) numbers" are what determine market value because Bennett was ranked higher in 2013 in pretty much every category on the Football Outsiders page that you cite to. He chose to sign this agreement one year ago at this level of pay with the anticipation that he would move into the starting rotation full time. Nothing unforeseeable has occurred since the signing of this agreement.

No one is saying Bennett isn't a great player deserving of a large salary. $7 million APY is a large salary commanded by only the best 4-3 DEs of which Bennett is one.

 

[nanomoz]

Apparently, the "sexy stats like sack (and tackle) numbers" are what determine market value because Bennett was ranked higher in 2013 in pretty much every category on the Football Outsiders page that you cite to. He chose to sign this agreement one year ago at this level of pay with the anticipation that he would move into the starting rotation full time. Nothing unforeseeable has occurred since the signing of this agreement.

No one is saying Bennett isn't a great player deserving of a large salary. $7 million APY is a large salary commanded by only the best 4-3 DEs of which Bennett is one.

Unless they're dumb, agents/players/front offices use whatever stats and information help their case.

Bennett has no leverage, and he knows it. He's taking a shot in the dark that some team will make a huge offer for his services that includes a new contract. It's not going to happen, or, it's very unlikely.

But the contracts signed by Suh, Odrick, Dan Williams, Jared Hughes, and Greg Hardy upped the upper-echelon defensive lineman/contract landscape. Not a ton. But enough that the slight discount Bennett gave last year seems like more of discount now (to him, at least).

For me: all this noise signifies nothing. Bennett is a Seahawk. And will continue to be. Once things start to count, he'll be there, balling out. He's that kind of player, which is why he's such a good fit here.

 

[Exittium]

I wouldn't trade him so quickly. I would However give him a little extra or draw up his contract in a way that if he causes anymore offsides or anything like the crap show of last year then they have the right to terminate his contract and pay him less or dock him pay for every time he causes a penalty.

I don't know I'm tired of him. He's money hungry, which isn't bad, but I felt like last year all we got in return for the investment was him helping other teams down the field by jumping offsides and causing penalties. The NFL is going to need to be more serious with its punishments for people "holding out", they're under contract. They like to spew about how they put their body and lives at risk and talk about the game of football likes its a warzone and they need the money for their future generations of children etc etc. When in the end they're already getting millions to play a game they signed a contract to versus the kid who no one ever hears about who signed a contract for pennies to get blown up in a real warzone so that people can whine about his contract still not being high enough.

 

[Hawks46]

I don't disagree that Michael Bennett may be over valuing himself. Guy wants more money. Fine. I just don't understand the comic vitriol behind it.

It's not a big deal until he misses something mandatory.

Totally agree. It's common place for NFL players to miss voluntary stuff to make a contract statement. He also won't miss a significant portion of TC because the fines are too punitive.

Thing is, Bennett has zero leverage and most posters have hit on every reason. I also wonder if he's trying to get some money forwarded like Lynch did. Here's what I see:

Bennett is 30 years old. This is probably his last big pay day.
The Seahawks drafted Frank Clark. He's a faster, quicker Bennett with longer arms. If he starts performing, Bennett has even less leverage as Clark is on a cheaper 4 year rookie deal, and he's younger.

I can't remember much, maybe some folks can help me....but it seems like we didn't hear a whole lot of squeaking about money out of Bennett until after the draft.

 

[brimsalabim]

The "sexy" stats from 2014 that I am looking at are:

31 tackles and 7 sacks in 16 regular season games, 5 tackles in three playoff games, & 27th in QB pressures after getting his new contract, which according to Spotrac paid him 10 million dollars for the above performance.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... nnMi99.htm

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... ries/2014/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... nsive-end/

Oh and according to spottrac he is already an 8 million dollar cap hit this season:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap ... nsive-end/

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I don't disagree that Michael Bennett may be over valuing himself. Guy wants more money. Fine. I just don't understand the comic vitriol behind it.

It's not a big deal until he misses something mandatory.

Totally agree. It's common place for NFL players to miss voluntary stuff to make a contract statement. He also won't miss a significant portion of TC because the fines are too punitive.

I've participated in all of the Michael Bennett threads, and I wouldn't classify any of the comments about Bennett as "vitriol."

People are annoyed cause the dude talks too much, that's all.

We still love Bennett and what he means to this team, just annoyed.

 

[nanomoz]

The "sexy" stats from 2014 that I am looking at are:

31 tackles and 7 sacks in 16 regular season games, 5 tackles in three playoff games, & 27th in QB pressures after getting his new contract, which according to Spotrac paid him 10 million dollars for the above performance.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... nnMi99.htm

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... ries/2014/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... nsive-end/

Oh and according to spottrac he is already an 8 million dollar cap hit this season:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap ... nsive-end/

Dude, at least compare apples to apples and look at the numbers closely.

Eleven of the people aren't even defensive lineman. They're 34 OLB's. Totally different position.

If you take them off, and account for ties, Bennett is (I think, I didn't spend more than a minute or so looking at the list) 7th in QB hurries. And there's only a handful of people that play inside and outside on that list, which makes Bennett more valuable (in his opinion, at least )

 

[hawknation2015]

The "sexy" stats from 2014 that I am looking at are:

31 tackles and 7 sacks in 16 regular season games, 5 tackles in three playoff games, & 27th in QB pressures after getting his new contract, which according to Spotrac paid him 10 million dollars for the above performance.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... nnMi99.htm

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nfl/stats ... ries/2014/

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/201 ... nsive-end/

Oh and according to spottrac he is already an 8 million dollar cap hit this season:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/cap ... nsive-end/

To be fair to Bennett, the Sporting Charts' figure of just 14 hurries for Bennett seems way off. I recall games where Bennett had five or more hurries, including the Super Bowl. Per Pro Football Focus's tracking, Michael Bennett's 53 quarterback hurries sat behind only J.J. Watt and Justin Houston (54). Bennett's quarterback pressures total (72) -- which is combined sacks, hurries and hits -- was best among 4-3 defensive ends and behind only Watt (119) and Houston (85) in the entire league. The reality is probably somewhere in between these two sources, depending on how one identifies a hurry, but the PFF figure looks far more accurate to me.

Bennett is a great player, and our secondary complements his skill set really well by giving him more time to get into the backfield. At the same time, the market clearly favors those players who actually finish off plays with sacks and tackles for loss. $7 million APY is the value the free agency market placed for his services. Unless he puts up a 12+ sack season, I doubt his market value will improve much with age.