Seahawks Secondary vs Patriots Secondary

[Grahamhawker]

Man, whoever said Browner is better than Maxwell is delusional. I'd pick Maxwell over Browner any day. I like Browner, but just not over Maxwell. Sorry dude.

:13:

And I loved Browner in the LOB. His jamming, his tackling, his 'tude. But Maxwell is a much better corner.

 

[50yrpatsfan]

If I were rating/comparing DB personnel:
- Sherman's great, but Revis is a better all around corner
- I'm not sold on Browner's penchant for penalties, I'd probably take Maxwell
- you'll scream about this, but I'm not trading Devin McCourty for Earl Thomas, no way no how
- Chancellor gets the nod over Patrick Chung
- nickel: Arrington's really good, but I know Lane is good too. Toss up.

On pure man to man talent, a small edge to Seattle probably. But for disguising coverages and confusing QB's, the Pats have the edge there.

Whoa man, is that stuff legal in Maine? imp:

Two of the four guys in the best backfield (statistically, eye test, whatever) in the league you'd take other guys over? This Seahawks defense is talked about in the same breaths as the '85 Bears, the Steel Curtain, the Purple People Eaters, and with good reason. It ain't because of the linebackers, and it sure ain't because of the defensive line.

Earl Thomas is a perennial Pro Bowler and straight up better than any other safety out there. Sherman is absolutely better than Revis, statistically and otherwise. You say it's because Sherman "can't" play both sides of the field, but you misspelled "doesn't". He can and has before matched up with #1 receivers man on man and has shut them down. The Seahawks do this only rarely, when a team has a clear #1 and a huge drop-off at receiver after that. Otherwise it's better scheme-wise for him to just take one half of the field away from the opposing quarterback's options and let the rest of the defense play on a smaller field.

If I were building a defensive backfield for the Patriots from this combined talent, it would consist of Revis, Sherman, Chancellor, and McCourty. I think McCourty's more well rounded than Thomas but that's just me.

Sherman is not straight up better than Revis, at best it's a discussion and if you polled experts around the NFL I think Revis would win that vote. If he hadn't disappeared for a year and a half with his knee injury, this wouldn't even be a discussion, it would be straight up Revis. He's a 1st ballot Hall of Famer, and Sherman has not attained that status yet.

I'd also add that if this conversation occurred a year ago, it would be a different conversation because the Hawks did look like the 85 Bears then. But not now, not after the way Green Bay moved the ball the other day. It makes you wonder if the stats they rang up down the stretch this year were because of the poor QB's they faced. The injuries and fatigue may have caught up with the Hawks a little bit, it's not easy to repeat.

 

[bigtrain21]

If I were rating/comparing DB personnel:
- Sherman's great, but Revis is a better all around corner
- I'm not sold on Browner's penchant for penalties, I'd probably take Maxwell
- you'll scream about this, but I'm not trading Devin McCourty for Earl Thomas, no way no how
- Chancellor gets the nod over Patrick Chung
- nickel: Arrington's really good, but I know Lane is good too. Toss up.

On pure man to man talent, a small edge to Seattle probably. But for disguising coverages and confusing QB's, the Pats have the edge there.

Whoa man, is that stuff legal in Maine? imp:

Two of the four guys in the best backfield (statistically, eye test, whatever) in the league you'd take other guys over? This Seahawks defense is talked about in the same breaths as the '85 Bears, the Steel Curtain, the Purple People Eaters, and with good reason. It ain't because of the linebackers, and it sure ain't because of the defensive line.

Earl Thomas is a perennial Pro Bowler and straight up better than any other safety out there. Sherman is absolutely better than Revis, statistically and otherwise. You say it's because Sherman "can't" play both sides of the field, but you misspelled "doesn't". He can and has before matched up with #1 receivers man on man and has shut them down. The Seahawks do this only rarely, when a team has a clear #1 and a huge drop-off at receiver after that. Otherwise it's better scheme-wise for him to just take one half of the field away from the opposing quarterback's options and let the rest of the defense play on a smaller field.

If I were building a defensive backfield for the Patriots from this combined talent, it would consist of Revis, Sherman, Chancellor, and McCourty. I think McCourty's more well rounded than Thomas but that's just me.

Sherman is not straight up better than Revis, at best it's a discussion and if you polled experts around the NFL I think Revis would win that vote. If he hadn't disappeared for a year and a half with his knee injury, this wouldn't even be a discussion, it would be straight up Revis. He's a 1st ballot Hall of Famer, and Sherman has not attained that status yet.

I'd also add that if this conversation occurred a year ago, it would be a different conversation because the Hawks did look like the 85 Bears then. But not now, not after the way Green Bay moved the ball the other day. It makes you wonder if the stats they rang up down the stretch this year were because of the poor QB's they faced. The injuries and fatigue may have caught up with the Hawks a little bit, it's not easy to repeat.

The Packers got 5 extra possessions and were only able to score 22 points.

 

[Grahamhawker]

In fact I'd take Revis and Vontae Davis over Sherman. All stats show Davis is the best CB in the game. So Sherman might not be in the top 2 or 3 best CB's in the game.

Please share these stats.

Sherman has way more tackles, way more passes defended, and twice as many picks as Davis the past 4 years.

 

[Hawkscanner]

If I were rating/comparing DB personnel:
- Sherman's great, but Revis is a better all around corner
- I'm not sold on Browner's penchant for penalties, I'd probably take Maxwell
- you'll scream about this, but I'm not trading Devin McCourty for Earl Thomas, no way no how
- Chancellor gets the nod over Patrick Chung
- nickel: Arrington's really good, but I know Lane is good too. Toss up.

On pure man to man talent, a small edge to Seattle probably. But for disguising coverages and confusing QB's, the Pats have the edge there.

Devin McCourty over Earl Thomas?!? LOL! WOW! Well you can keep McCourty ... because if (for some odd reason) the Seahawks decided to let Thomas go ... Hawks fans would storm in to the VMAC with torches like angry villagers and burn it down. Earl Thomas is THE key to the Seahawks defense in so many ways. No doubt about it -- he's the best FS in football -- bar none. I surmise that if you ask almost any expert out there, they will agree.

This past week, Ronnie Lott was interviewed on 950 KJR ... and said that he felt that Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor (the way they are playing) are sure fire Hall of Fame players. He compared their level of play right now to that of former Seahawks great Kenny Easley, whom Lott feels is the best safety to ever play the game.

Easley was also interviewed here on KJR recently ... and he called both Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor the premier safeties in the game. He also said he felt that they were Hall of Fame level players.

When former safeties the caliber of Ronnie Lott and Kenny Easley endorse someone, I sit up and pay attention.

 

[SmokinHawk]

If I were rating/comparing DB personnel:
- Sherman's great, but Revis is a better all around corner
- I'm not sold on Browner's penchant for penalties, I'd probably take Maxwell
- you'll scream about this, but I'm not trading Devin McCourty for Earl Thomas, no way no how
- Chancellor gets the nod over Patrick Chung
- nickel: Arrington's really good, but I know Lane is good too. Toss up.

On pure man to man talent, a small edge to Seattle probably. But for disguising coverages and confusing QB's, the Pats have the edge there.

Haha. Thomas and Sherman are so much better than McCourty and Revis. It's not even close. Sherman would never get toasted by 35 year old Steve Smith.

Disagree. Revis can play anywhere on the field, can shut down a primary weapon wherever he lines up. Patriots can scheme Sherman out of play by lining up their targets on the other side. Revis is also stickier and better at getting through traffic. Where Sherman is great is his length and ability to take away deep routes, but Pats don't throw deep.

I'm not saying McCourty is better than Thomas, but I prefer McCourty for us. They're a lot closer than you think. McCourty is a former CB, great tackler, great positional safety, doesn't drop INT's..

Arrington is a slot corner, actually our fastest CB, but not that great on the outside where he was forced to play the last time we faced you a few years back. But what I've seen of Lane, he's pretty good too.

Chancellor is the x factor, he makes a lot of big plays. Just not sure how he'll play into this game plan. He's 30 lbs lighter than Gronk and 2" shorter, and Gronkowski runs like a beast, so not the normal intimidation factor there. Edelman is too tricky to get hit hard by him, but God help Amendola if he runs into Kam.

A key guy for the Patriots is LaFell. I could see him being a tough cover for Maxwell. He's been dinged up but he'll be at full strength in 2 weeks. He's 6'3", fearless and physical.

Put the pipe down, son.

Revis finally had a good year, after several years of mediocrity and injury. Good for him. Prior to this season, he was failing to live up to his own hype. When he plays out of position, he gets burned. Based solely on the results of this season, I would say he is merely "good", but Sherman has been the best CB in the NFL since the first moment he stepped on the field during the 2011 season. The Seahawks' formula for success is to leave their corners in their respective positions without roaming the field much. The few times that Richard has shadowed a receiver, he has erased them. Until Revis can consistently perform at Sherman's level, it's ridiculous to think that Revis could be better in any imaginable capacity. Watch Sherm's INT in the Green Bay game. He runs the route better than the receiver and knows where the ball is going the entire time. He has the play so well diagnosed that he doesn't even bother to look at the receiver.

Revis is a closer comparison to Patrick Peterson than Richard Sherman.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I'd also add that if this conversation occurred a year ago, it would be a different conversation because the Hawks did look like the 85 Bears then. But not now, not after the way Green Bay moved the ball the other day. It makes you wonder if the stats they rang up down the stretch this year were because of the poor QB's they faced. The injuries and fatigue may have caught up with the Hawks a little bit, it's not easy to repeat.

After Green Bay moved the ball the other day? You mean how their league-leading #1 offense received FIVE turnovers, had an average starting position on the Seahawks' 49 yard line, and put up a whopping 306 total yards, a single touchdown, and a bunch of field goals? They were held under their offensive output across the board in that game, and by a large margin, even with the turnovers and field position.

 

[camdawg]

If Sherman and Thomas are not 100% for the Super Bowl then for the Super Bowl the Patriots will have a better secondary for that one game.

But with regards to depth the Patriots have the deepest secondary in the NFL...

CB's...
Revis
Browner
Arrington
Ryan
Butler

Safety's...
McCourty
Chung
Harmon
Wilson
Ebner

I'd take Revis over Sherman. Revis plays both sides of the field, he can play in the slot where ever. They put Revis on the other team's best WR and shadow him the entire game. Sherman only plays one side of the field, his strong side.

In fact I'd take Revis and Vontae Davis over Sherman. All stats show Davis is the best CB in the game. So Sherman might not be in the top 2 or 3 best CB's in the game.

We have the number 1 passing defense in the league. You have the number 17- Slightly below average. Nuff said, its not even an argument. You're not even close. We are the best and you are slightly below average. How can you even begin to try to make this argument?

That is due to the Seahawks playing in the NFC West against teams with no offenses this season. Two of the teams (Cardinals, Rams) lost their QB's.

The Pats play in a weak division too in the AFC East but they had to play the Chiefs, Bengals, Broncos, Bears, Colts, Lions, Packers, Chargers against high powered offenses. And yes, the Dolphins have a better offense than the Rams and Cardinals especially after they lost their QB's due to injury.

Dolphins...
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... a/2014.htm

Seahawks...
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... a/2014.htm

The Pats basically were on cruise control for the last 2 games of the season. They played half the game of the last game of the season because they already clinched the #1 seed so those season stats don't tell the whole story.

Seahawks...
Scored 394 points (24.6/g), 14th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 254 points (15.9/g), 1st.
Differential of 140 points (8.8/g), 3rd.

Patriots...
Scored 468 points (29.2/g), 4th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 313 points (19.6/g), 8th.
Differential of 155 points (9.7/g), 1st.

Overall the Pats are just a little more balanced.

You'd really take Vontae over Sherman? Why? Because of his 19 passes defensed? If you think that's special, Sherman in his rookie season, IN HALF A SEASON, had 17. Sherman matched Vontae's four picks this season while being the least targeted corner in the league.

I know why you want to make the "cruise control" argument, which is true for your last game. You want to excuse your garbage play against the Jets. Sorry, not gonna work. You can't knock the Seahawks opponents, even just their offenses, when the AWFUL Jets were no better.

You brought up your list of opponents. Guess what? We played a bunch of the same teams (AFC West and Packers). And our secondary still completely outplayed yours this season. LOL at building up the Bears. The "explosive" Bengals? Considering what they're billed to be, they were frauds. Take a closer look at the stats, Andy Dalton actually threw for LESS yards than Russell Wilson, on MORE attempts. Had MORE INTs, FEWER TDs, a QB rating ten points LESS than Russell's. If only our secondary got to play the Jets twice, who finished DEAD LAST in the league in passing yardage.

Overall, the Patsies are just inferior to the Seahawks.

 

[Pats fan1]

I'd also add that if this conversation occurred a year ago, it would be a different conversation because the Hawks did look like the 85 Bears then. But not now, not after the way Green Bay moved the ball the other day. It makes you wonder if the stats they rang up down the stretch this year were because of the poor QB's they faced. The injuries and fatigue may have caught up with the Hawks a little bit, it's not easy to repeat.

After Green Bay moved the ball the other day? You mean how their league-leading #1 offense received FIVE turnovers, had an average starting position on the Seahawks' 49 yard line, and put up a whopping 306 total yards, a single touchdown, and a bunch of field goals? They were held under their offensive output across the board in that game, and by a large margin, even with the turnovers and field position.

Yes, in Seattle in front of the 12th man the loudest crowd in the NFL in the hardest stadium to play in on turf where the Packers struggled all season on turf.

The Seahawks are on a neutral field now in the Super Bowl. And there's a possibility Sherman and Thomas won't be 100% for the game. Doesn't a sprained elbow and dislocated shoulder usually take 4 to 6 weeks ? Sherman has "injured elbow ligaments."

Richard Sherman's Injury Makes Patriots Super Bowl Favorites vs. Seahawks...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2338 ... s-seahawks

Quote: "Seattle's defense has been vulnerable in various spots this postseason, mostly against the run. The Panthers and Packers ran for a combined 267 yards in the two games."

 

[Pats fan1]

If Sherman and Thomas are not 100% for the Super Bowl then for the Super Bowl the Patriots will have a better secondary for that one game.

But with regards to depth the Patriots have the deepest secondary in the NFL...

CB's...
Revis
Browner
Arrington
Ryan
Butler

Safety's...
McCourty
Chung
Harmon
Wilson
Ebner

I'd take Revis over Sherman. Revis plays both sides of the field, he can play in the slot where ever. They put Revis on the other team's best WR and shadow him the entire game. Sherman only plays one side of the field, his strong side.

In fact I'd take Revis and Vontae Davis over Sherman. All stats show Davis is the best CB in the game. So Sherman might not be in the top 2 or 3 best CB's in the game.

We have the number 1 passing defense in the league. You have the number 17- Slightly below average. Nuff said, its not even an argument. You're not even close. We are the best and you are slightly below average. How can you even begin to try to make this argument?

That is due to the Seahawks playing in the NFC West against teams with no offenses this season. Two of the teams (Cardinals, Rams) lost their QB's.

The Pats play in a weak division too in the AFC East but they had to play the Chiefs, Bengals, Broncos, Bears, Colts, Lions, Packers, Chargers against high powered offenses. And yes, the Dolphins have a better offense than the Rams and Cardinals especially after they lost their QB's due to injury.

Dolphins...
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... a/2014.htm

Seahawks...
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/t ... a/2014.htm

The Pats basically were on cruise control for the last 2 games of the season. They played half the game of the last game of the season because they already clinched the #1 seed so those season stats don't tell the whole story.

Seahawks...
Scored 394 points (24.6/g), 14th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 254 points (15.9/g), 1st.
Differential of 140 points (8.8/g), 3rd.

Patriots...
Scored 468 points (29.2/g), 4th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 313 points (19.6/g), 8th.
Differential of 155 points (9.7/g), 1st.

Overall the Pats are just a little more balanced.

You'd really take Vontae over Sherman? Why? Because of his 19 passes defensed? If you think that's special, Sherman in his rookie season, IN HALF A SEASON, had 17. Sherman matched Vontae's four picks this season while being the least targeted corner in the league.

I know why you want to make the "cruise control" argument, which is true for your last game. You want to excuse your garbage play against the Jets. Sorry, not gonna work. You can't knock the Seahawks opponents, even just their offenses, when the AWFUL Jets were no better.

You brought up your list of opponents. Guess what? We played a bunch of the same teams (AFC West and Packers). And our secondary still completely outplayed yours this season. LOL at building up the Bears. The "explosive" Bengals? Considering what they're billed to be, they were frauds. Take a closer look at the stats, Andy Dalton actually threw for LESS yards than Russell Wilson, on MORE attempts. Had MORE INTs, FEWER TDs, a QB rating ten points LESS than Russell's. If only our secondary got to play the Jets twice, who finished DEAD LAST in the league in passing yardage.

Overall, the Patsies are just inferior to the Seahawks.

What's the health of Sherman and Thomas?

 

[SmokinHawk]

What's the health of Sherman and Thomas?

Status is probable, and their injuries were to their arms, not their legs. You better pray to all that is holy that your coach isn't scheming to exploit these injuries, because if he is, he will get burned badly. Richard's elbow is good enough to ruin your day. Tom Brady has played for several seasons with a shoulder injury. I think Earl Thomas will be just fine.

 

[Scottemojo]

Laugh out Loud. Yeah, I typed it out.
Revis is in decline. Everyone can see it. Still good, but in decline.
How anyone can watch Sherman bait Rodgers, then steal the pass, and thing Sherm isn't awesome, well that is how I separate the Joes from the Schmoes. Besides, whether Sherm is 1st or 3rd, Should Brady make a habit of trying to pass on him? Probably not.
Russ is 10-0 vs SB winning QBs. Now, clearly, Russ didn't go kick them all in the vaginas personally. The LOB did.
Truth is, I knew you were a fool when you said Earl<McCourty. You are, like most fans, trying to convince yourself you have a chance. Which you do. But your chance does not lie in "exposing" the LOB as lesser. It lies in somehow running for 2 hundie.

 

[bigtrain21]

I'd also add that if this conversation occurred a year ago, it would be a different conversation because the Hawks did look like the 85 Bears then. But not now, not after the way Green Bay moved the ball the other day. It makes you wonder if the stats they rang up down the stretch this year were because of the poor QB's they faced. The injuries and fatigue may have caught up with the Hawks a little bit, it's not easy to repeat.

After Green Bay moved the ball the other day? You mean how their league-leading #1 offense received FIVE turnovers, had an average starting position on the Seahawks' 49 yard line, and put up a whopping 306 total yards, a single touchdown, and a bunch of field goals? They were held under their offensive output across the board in that game, and by a large margin, even with the turnovers and field position.

Yes, in Seattle in front of the 12th man the loudest crowd in the NFL in the hardest stadium to play in on turf where the Packers struggled all season on turf.

The Seahawks are on a neutral field now in the Super Bowl. And there's a possibility Sherman and Thomas won't be 100% for the game. Doesn't a sprained elbow and dislocated shoulder usually take 4 to 6 weeks ? Sherman has "injured elbow ligaments."

Richard Sherman's Injury Makes Patriots Super Bowl Favorites vs. Seahawks...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2338 ... s-seahawks

Quote: "Seattle's defense has been vulnerable in various spots this postseason, mostly against the run. The Panthers and Packers ran for a combined 267 yards in the two games."

On 60 carries. Patriots gave up 219 on 47 carries which is more yards per carry to 2 significantly worse rushing offenses than the Seahawks faced.

 

[Who'sGotYoBack?]

Heard nothing about Thomas but so far so good for 25. He might just have to wear a brace which could limit him a little bit, but we all know it won't make that much of a difference, Hawks secondary all day. Kam can knock the wind out of someone twice his size so even if they have to bracket Gronk; as long as they stop him at the line and keep him from building momentum which is the key to his game, he can be minimized.



http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seahawks/ ... uper-bowl/

 

[Grahamhawker]

In fact I'd take Revis and Vontae Davis over Sherman. All stats show Davis is the best CB in the game. So Sherman might not be in the top 2 or 3 best CB's in the game.

Please share these stats.

Sherman has way more tackles, way more passes defended, and twice as many picks as Davis the past 4 years.

Having trouble coming up with those stats still, Pats Fan 1 ?

 

[Who'sGotYoBack?]

I hope to god Belichick gets Sean Peyton'ed. Lost draft picks, suspended for season.. throw the book at that asshole. Pat's need to stop cheating.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

I'd also add that if this conversation occurred a year ago, it would be a different conversation because the Hawks did look like the 85 Bears then. But not now, not after the way Green Bay moved the ball the other day. It makes you wonder if the stats they rang up down the stretch this year were because of the poor QB's they faced. The injuries and fatigue may have caught up with the Hawks a little bit, it's not easy to repeat.

After Green Bay moved the ball the other day? You mean how their league-leading #1 offense received FIVE turnovers, had an average starting position on the Seahawks' 49 yard line, and put up a whopping 306 total yards, a single touchdown, and a bunch of field goals? They were held under their offensive output across the board in that game, and by a large margin, even with the turnovers and field position.

Yes, in Seattle in front of the 12th man the loudest crowd in the NFL in the hardest stadium to play in on turf where the Packers struggled all season on turf.

The Seahawks are on a neutral field now in the Super Bowl. And there's a possibility Sherman and Thomas won't be 100% for the game. Doesn't a sprained elbow and dislocated shoulder usually take 4 to 6 weeks ? Sherman has "injured elbow ligaments."

Richard Sherman's Injury Makes Patriots Super Bowl Favorites vs. Seahawks...
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2338 ... s-seahawks

Quote: "Seattle's defense has been vulnerable in various spots this postseason, mostly against the run. The Panthers and Packers ran for a combined 267 yards in the two games."

Well, would you consider less than 180 yards passing, with a single touchdown and two picks a good outing for Tom Brady in the Super Bowl? Throw in 75 or so yards for your starting running back and say 60-ish from the rest of the ground game? Should "move the ball on Seattle" pretty well with those numbers.

 

[Exittium]

Ill take a 1 armed Sherman over a full healthy revis any day. I like BB but Maxwell plays smarter and has better technique.

PS send us folks in the PNW some of whatever the hell you pats fans have been smoking because clearly its better then whats over here.

 

[Smellyman]

I love Gronk and think he is a great player, but for what we do, I prefer Luke Willson and especially if Zach Miller was healthy.





















:thirishdrinkers:

 

[Foghawk]

Must be the over inflated balls