Rumor: Seahawks talking to Giants about Kam trade

[HawkFan72]

Don't believe me? There was a big personnel move on principal/precedent before. We released Browner. That move ended up costing us a SB win. Because Browner was the one that blew up that play that resulted in the interception and it was the lack of healthy DBs that contributed heavily to Brady coming back in the SB against us.

So the organization "showed" Browner that they were tired of his crap, cut him, the Patriots grabbed him and then reamed us with him so we did not get to win. Now what was more important? Making a statement about what the team will tolerate or winning the SB?

We had Simon and Lane though, so of course hindsight is 20-20. The point stands that there are costs for taking a stand, and in this case - the Seahawks would probably be better off in the shortrun adjusting Kam's contract. Go look at that old Dallas Cowboys team where Emmitt was in a contract dispute until Haley put his helmet through the wall and screamed at the exec that they better "Pay Emmitt!". They did and they won the SB that year.

It is a situation you can come back from. But no, no Kam this year, I think, means the chances of a SB ring go way down.

Browner was a free agent who followed the biggest offer. He was no different than Maxwell this offseason.

 

[Exittium]

Umm.. Browner was suspended indefinitely which is why seattle cut him.. And coincidently once the Pats picked him up it was overturned..

 

[A-Dog]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Totally agree. If John Schneider wants to put a hold on this years Super Bowl run, then trade Kam and start anew. We have no one who can replace his talent. Period. But get a great player in return or at least a number 1 draft pick. No less. Otherwise you have failed us all (The Twelves). Sad to see this coming but hopefully John will show how great a GM he truly is and fix a problem that could end up being tantamount to the hurt feelings left with 26 seconds to go.

That's like saying if Kam had torn his ACL in camp we wouldn't have a chance this season.

There are fans who are willing to do whatever it takes to win in the current season. JS is looking at the future and the present.

I never said we wouldn't have a chance. I said it would significantly impact our chances. And we can't control injuries. We can control contracts.

Of course JS is looking at the future. But the Seahawks have ONE title in their 41 years of history. 41 years! These opportunities don't come along very often.

With the acquisition of Graham and the drafting of Frank Clark and Tyler Lockett, this is looking like a team that could be better than the title team, IF Kam is playing. The only real downgrades are Center and potentially RCB but we've managed changes at those positions in the past, and we have great coaches. We lose Kam and our chance at #2 takes a big hit. Maybe we don't get a bye in the first round. Maybe we don't play the NFC title game at Qwest. That is a big deal (as we found out in Atlanta), even if we have Kam come playoff time.

You have to give in a little. I don't care if it sets a precedent... the rest of the core is signed. Bennett holds out next year he sits and doesn't get paid. I completely agree that trading the player sets an even worse precedent - I don't care if we get offered a #1 pick for Kam. First of all, he's worth more than that. 2nd of all, it tells other players that there aren't repercussions if you hold out. Kam has HOF quality. Unless you are in that category, if you hold out you sit and don't get paid and you don't get traded. Everyone else on our team that is in that category (Marshawn, Russell, Earl, Sherm, Bobby) is already paid. Michael Bennett is not in that category, has a pretty solid contract anyway, and we have a replacement for him already.

 

[HawkFan72]

Umm.. Browner was suspended indefinitely which is why seattle cut him.. And coincidently once the Pats picked him up it was overturned..

No, Browner was a free agent with a 4 game suspension hanging over his head. And he served the 4 game suspension at the start of last year.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Nobody is saying that if Kam was injured this year we would not have a chance.

They might say we would have less of a chance. Great teams fail to win the SB all the time because of injuries, this would not be an odd thing.

If Kam got injured in the season and was out of the season, it is very possible we would move from the favorite to the #2 or #3 in the NFC slot.

Last year, without Kam we might not have beaten Carolina. So devaluing him is strange, unless all of this is an attempt at whistling past the graveyard.

If we honestly think that this is due to Kam being hurt and simply never being able to produce at reasonable levels again - by all means try to trade him. But if this is just an attempt to try to keep from setting a precedent, then if we trade him away we likely trade away our shot at a SB ring.

Don't believe me? There was a big personnel move on principal/precedent before. We released Browner. That move ended up costing us a SB win. Because Browner was the one that blew up that play that resulted in the interception and it was the lack of healthy DBs that contributed heavily to Brady coming back in the SB against us.

So the organization "showed" Browner that they were tired of his crap, cut him, the Patriots grabbed him and then reamed us with him so we did not get to win. Now what was more important? Making a statement about what the team will tolerate or winning the SB?

We had Simon and Lane though, so of course hindsight is 20-20. The point stands that there are costs for taking a stand, and in this case - the Seahawks would probably be better off in the shortrun adjusting Kam's contract. Go look at that old Dallas Cowboys team where Emmitt was in a contract dispute until Haley put his helmet through the wall and screamed at the exec that they better "Pay Emmitt!". They did and they won the SB that year.

It is a situation you can come back from. But no, no Kam this year, I think, means the chances of a SB ring go way down.

Good post, it's interesting to look at SB 49 in more depth...

If Lane doesn't get hurt we probably win as Simon got beat multiple times in the SB after Lane's injury.
If Avril doesn't get hurt we have a better chance to win.

Obviously the injuries to Earl, Sherm and Kam from previous games had an impact on the defense late in the game, and then there was the last play of the game...

Seems to me like a lot had to go in NE's favor for them to win that.

If our offense is even slightly better I still like our chances to go back to the superb owl, with or without Kam.

 

[Tical21]

If you want to set the precedent, you send his ass to Oakland. Anybody else want to hold out?

 

[A-Dog]

Good post, it's interesting to look at SB 49 in more depth...

If Lane doesn't get hurt we probably win as Simon got beat multiple times in the SB after Lane's injury.
If Avril doesn't get hurt we have a better chance to win.

Obviously the injuries to Earl, Sherm and Kam from previous games had an impact on the defense late in the game, and then there was the last play of the game...

Seems to me like a lot had to go in NE's favor for them to win that.

If our offense is even slightly better I still like our chances to go back to the superb owl, with or without Kam.

Yes but without the fact that we had a first round bye and HF advantage throughout the playoffs, the Patriots probably would have been playing Green Bay in that game. Look how close the Green Bay game was. Look how close the SF game was the year before. Look how close the Atlanta game was the year before that. All three games came down to the final play. You don't think playing the NFC Championship game at home, in front of the 12's, makes a difference? We play 10 games without Kam and having that critical advantage is highly unlikely.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

I would not trade him unless it's a first round draft choice period. Kam is the best SS in the game he is a game changer on defense and has made a ton of huge plays for Seattle. So if they don't adjust his contract there rolling the dice on a potential Super Bowl this year plain and simple. Is it possible the defense just keeps on going and doesn't miss Kam much yes. It's also possible they will need him more than ever this year. Seattle has a real shot to make it back, so the question is do you risk a potential Super Bowl appearance over a couple million I say hell no.

 

[Exittium]

Umm.. Browner was suspended indefinitely which is why seattle cut him.. And coincidently once the Pats picked him up it was overturned..

No, Browner was a free agent with a 4 game suspension hanging over his head. And he served the 4 game suspension at the start of last year.

Okay so he wasnt cut but
http://nesn.com/2014/03/brandon-browners-four-game-suspension-stems-from-missing-drug-tests/2

Then he became a free agent and had a 4 game suspension after he threatened to sue regardless im sure is he didnt do stupid shit he would still he in seattle.. "Shrug" i could careless either way. He's not a hawk now

 

[WilsonMVP]

I would also recommend to those who are fine with Kam not being on this team to watch this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000439229/NFL-Turning-Point-Kam-Chancellor-film-study

Kam's ability to diagnose and react, the work he puts in watching film, the way he sets the tone, the synergy he has with the rest of the LOB, and the way he inspires the entire defense are not replaceable.

May be true...but If I had to choose to lose one of Wagner, Kam, Thomas or Sherman...it would be Kam. We all saw what losing Wagner did last year too

 

[WilsonMVP]

People are underrating Kam's value. When he's not hurt he has a Ronnie Lott / Kenny Easley / Sean Taylor kind of impact on the game.

It's going to be really difficult to win a title this year without Kam. Not as difficult as it would be without Marshawn, but if he's not on the team I'd estimate our odds of a title drop by about 50%.

Other players can hold out if they want, and if they do they can sit or get traded. Even Bennett, who is Pro-Bowl level, I would put in that category, especially with what Frank Clark is showing.

What would have the 49ers done without Ronnie Lott?

Totally agree. If John Schneider wants to put a hold on this years Super Bowl run, then trade Kam and start anew. We have no one who can replace his talent. Period. But get a great player in return or at least a number 1 draft pick. No less. Otherwise you have failed us all (The Twelves). Sad to see this coming but hopefully John will show how great a GM he truly is and fix a problem that could end up being tantamount to the hurt feelings left with 26 seconds to go.

How is this Johns fault to begin with.. This is ENTIRELY on Kam and his greed. He signed an extension 2 years ago and was happy as can be. He was paid BEFORE Sherman, BEFORE Wilson, BEFORE Wager, Before Thomas. They all get paid and now hes not happy...please...He is an awesome player but this holdout is rediculous with 3!!!!!! years left.

 

[A-Dog]

I would also recommend to those who are fine with Kam not being on this team to watch this:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000439229/NFL-Turning-Point-Kam-Chancellor-film-study

Kam's ability to diagnose and react, the work he puts in watching film, the way he sets the tone, the synergy he has with the rest of the LOB, and the way he inspires the entire defense are not replaceable.

May be true...but If I had to choose to lose one of Wagner, Kam, Thomas or Sherman...it would be Kam. We all saw what losing Wagner did last year too

We have a pretty promising backup for Wagner now (he'd be a starter on many teams according to BW himself)... not so much with Kam. Anyway, those other guys are all paid.

 

[TwistedHusky]

This team wins on defense.

We have already seen what a historically great offense does against a historically great defense. The data for many of those matchups show, even with the rules tilted massively in favor of the offense, defense wins.

So hoping for the "We don't need Kam because our offense is going to be better" route is hilarious. We are not going to make up for the dissolution of likely the all time greatest secondary in the NFL (not due to longevity but just results & measurables) by adding a few receivers. And we still have Bevell calling the game, so you could give that guy Barry Sanders in his prime, Joe Montana throwing to Rice & Largent with Shannon Sharpe at TE - and he would still find a way to screw it up.

Hoping the offense will be better just doesn't track with the data.

If the defense cannot produce, this team is nowhere near as dangerous. And the linchpin for the defense is the collection of safeties. You might even argue that since Kam plays nearer the LOS and gets more in the run game - Kam might be more slightly more important than even Earl.

At this point, this is all spinning in circles and handwringing. We will know the effect of losing Kam once the real games start. I think it is going to be painful and I do not believe the slightly better DL is, and a few extra receivers is going to make up for that. But I wouldn't mind being wrong.

For now, it is an argument that won't be won until the 1st game is over. And even then, who wants to "win" the argument? I would rather have Kam back. I would just be pissed off if we traded him for anything, even a flying robot dinosaur that shoots lasers.

(Part of this fanbase still undervalues Kam, always has, remember all the people upset when we signed him the first time? Now you have people convinced we could get rid of him and "be just fine". No.)

Kam and Browner MADE the LOB. Losing Browner lost us a SB. I do not want losing Kam to do the same to us again.

 

[WilsonMVP]

Umm.. Browner was suspended indefinitely which is why seattle cut him.. And coincidently once the Pats picked him up it was overturned..

Browner can (insert insult here) ...its HIS fault he isnt on the Sehawks..and his alone. If he wasnt so concerned about smoking weed he could of played in the superbowl WITH US and most likely would of been a 2 time superbowl champion WITH US

 

[A-Dog]

How is this Johns fault to begin with.. This is ENTIRELY on Kam and his greed. He signed an extension 2 years ago and was happy as can be. He was paid BEFORE Sherman, BEFORE Wilson, BEFORE Wager, Before Thomas. They all get paid and now hes not happy...please...He is an awesome player but this holdout is rediculous with 3!!!!!! years left.

Kam went from "good" to potential HOF'er since that contract was signed. Also, the salary cap got a lot bigger, contracts got a lot bigger, and with the way he put his body on the line every game it's natural for him to want more security - he know 3 years is a long time to wait for more guaranteed money. I can't blame him for worrying a little about his future. Sure, he's a millionaire and you can call him greedy, and I wish he would just report, but I can see his side of it.

 

[WilsonMVP]

How is this Johns fault to begin with.. This is ENTIRELY on Kam and his greed. He signed an extension 2 years ago and was happy as can be. He was paid BEFORE Sherman, BEFORE Wilson, BEFORE Wager, Before Thomas. They all get paid and now hes not happy...please...He is an awesome player but this holdout is rediculous with 3!!!!!! years left.

Kam went from "good" to potential HOF'er since that contract was signed. Also, the salary cap got a lot bigger, contracts got a lot bigger, and with the way he put his body on the line every game it's natural for him to want more security - he know 3 years is a long time to wait for more guaranteed money. I can't blame him for worrying a little about his future. Sure, he's a millionaire and you can call him greedy, and I wish he would just report, but I can see his side of it.

He could of played out his contract and hit FA if he wanted max money. He is also a SS and is one of the top contracts for SS in the NFL. Not like he is making peanuts here. For AVG salary he for all purposes is tied for highest paid SS in the game STILL. Thomas is the highest AVG salary for Safeties in general. We have 2 of the top 8 for safety pay in the nfl.

He is an elite player...but I do wonder how he would fare if say he went to the Raiders, Titans or some other scrub team without Thomas, Wagner AND Sherman to allow him to do his thing.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

Makes sense, he can get his new contract and we should be able to get about at least a 3rd round pick.

I think it'll cost the suitor a couple of high-round pick, plus having to eat this contract. Very costly and will involve heavy lifting to get a reworked deal in place. They gotta REALLY want him bad.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Kam is maybe the 5th or 6th most important player on defense, IMO. I'm glad Schneider is so far holding firm.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Umm.. Browner was suspended indefinitely which is why seattle cut him.. And coincidently once the Pats picked him up it was overturned..

Browner can (insert insult here) ...its HIS fault he isnt on the Sehawks..and his alone. If he wasnt so concerned about smoking weed he could of played in the superbowl WITH US and most likely would of been a 2 time superbowl champion WITH US

But he is a two time superbowl champion with and without us, he's the only one that can say that right now.

 

[HawKnPeppa]

And Michael Bennett immediately starts his holdout.

Well we have a pretty good replacement for him lined up who will have a year of NFL experience under his belt after this year. Bennett is not going to start a holdout now, and he is likely to hold our again next year anyway. If he refuses to report in 2016 there are a lot of teams that would give up quite a bit for him in a trade.

How do you know Bennett wouldn't hold out? From his perspective doing all the right things got him no where, While Kam held out, and got his way. Bennett would have to strongly consider holding out ASAP.

When Kuechly gets paid next off season whats to stop Wagner from holding out.

Sherm has another great season, and some other corner breaks the bank, Sherm decides to hold out.

Russell Wilson sees Luck break the bank decides to hold out.

You cannot open pandora's box.

Bennett's an open book, who's honest to a fault. That's why he's so damn funny some times. If he says "my professionalism trumps my unhappiness with the contract," I'm inclined to believe him. He's attended every mandatory event so far. I'm really disappointed with Kam in that regard. A beast on the field becomes a little girl when it comes to 'he's got more than me.' Wanna talk about outplaying a contract? RW only missed one OTA because of Jimmy's pseudo mother's funeral. He attended all other events, mandatory or not, That's part of leadership. I give Kam kudos for crisis management, but he gets no star on his forehead for what's happening now.