Rigged Jets vs KC Game

[Ruminator]

I'd love for all calls to be made consistently and correctly despite mere mortal humans serving as referees who are required to make snap conclusions play after play in a game featuring a myriad of elements and fast-moving players, but I think we all know that this happening 100% of the time just isn't possible. It's when a ref seems to allow influences outside of the rulebook to affect the calls he makes that I find disturbing.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Every time an owner thinks they got screwed in a big game, here comes a new confusing subjective rule that no one knows how to implement or officiate.

illegal contact, PI, holding, roughing the passer, catch rules. Just to name a few that the league has messed with and made way more confusing then they need to be.

Cause Jerry Jones or some other spoiled brat owner didn't like the way a playoff game ended.

I think most of us just want the more obvious rules that have been around long enough to be enforced properly.

If you're pulling the jersey or have a firm grip on the opponent's pads to the point they can't go anywhere or move in a certain direction, that's a hold and you should call that Every. Single. Time. no matter WHO is doing it, even NFL's precious teams.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I think most of us just want the more obvious rules that have been around long enough to be enforced properly.

If you're pulling the jersey or have a firm grip on the opponent's pads to the point they can't go anywhere or move in a certain direction, that's a hold and you should call that Every. Single. Time. no matter WHO is doing it, even NFL's precious teams.

This isn't true though. Pulling and affecting rush or route running? Yes, that's holding.

But O-linemen and coaches are given specific guidelines as to how they can block and yes, hold. If it's inside the pad levels.

You're making my point, fans think it's obvious. But it's not.......and these refs are expected to be perfect every single down, or they're dragged in slow motion millions of times on Sportscenter and social media with fans crying bias.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

This isn't true though. Pulling and affecting rush or route running? Yes, that's holding.

But O-linemen and coaches are given specific guidelines as to how they can block and yes, hold. If it's inside the pad levels.

You're making my point, fans think it's obvious. But it's not.......and these refs are expected to be perfect every single down, or they're dragged in slow motion millions of times on Sportscenter and social media with fans crying bias.

I mean, to be fair that should be holding too...if you need to HOLD on to a player to keep them from doing what they're supposed to do, it's supposed to be a HOLDing call.

It's in the name...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I mean, to be fair that should be holding too...if you need to HOLD on to a player to keep them from doing what they're supposed to do, it's supposed to be a HOLDing call.

It's in the name...

Idk what we're discussing anymore.

If your insinuating that the league tells it's refs to steer games, then you should probably just stop watching sports. Why waste your time on something that's fixed?

Old dudes who make too many mistakes having to officiate confusing subjective rules. The end.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Idk what we're discussing anymore.

If your insinuating that the league tells it's refs to steer games, then you should probably just stop watching sports. Why waste your time on something that's fixed?

Old dudes who make too many mistakes having to officiate confusing subjective rules. The end.

I watch for the purpose of what the NFL is branded, entertainment. Sometimes you're not going to be entertained and see bullshit that upsets you but for the most part it is entertaining.

It's like watching a movie with a villain in it. You're not going to tell people who moan or get upset at a villain currently winning "Maybe you should stop watching movies with villains in it, why waste your time?"...They'll keep watching in hopes to see it corrected and/or the good guys win, and that's what I do.

Also, is your official opinion of refs that they don't steer games at all?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I watch for the purpose of what the NFL is branded, entertainment. Sometimes you're not going to be entertained and see bullshit that upsets you but for the most part it is entertaining.

It's like watching a movie with a villain in it. You're not going to tell people who moan or get upset at a villain currently winning "Maybe you should stop watching movies with villains in it, why waste your time?"...They'll keep watching in hopes to see it corrected and/or the good guys win, and that's what I do.

Also, is your official opinion of refs that they don't steer games at all?

I watch movies for the art and escapism. I watch sports because it's the only true competitive unscripted entertainment medium.

And yes, my "official" opinion if you're keeping score at home is that the refs don't steer games. Why would the NFL risk a multi-billion dollar money making empire by committing fraud on the people who pad everyone's bank accounts.......and more importantly why would the refs and players go along with it?

Makes no sense. Fans see what they want to see to fit their subjective confirmation biases about their emotional anger.

Now do they protect their stars? Sure. Every sport does that. They know where their bread is buttered. Thus all the new rules to protect QB's, WR's, etc. Do they secretly send out instructions on which games they want the refs to help one team win over the other?

Why on earth would the owners agree with that? Especially the ones who'd be on the losing end of those directions.

 

[warden]

Definition of rigged is up to interpretation

Are they flat out fixing the games? Absolutely not.

Are they doing a lot of subtle things to get their desired outcome? Absolutely

Bring the refs into a room before the game with some film of the team they want to lose and show them some subjective penalties and tell them you have to call those. The refs all of a sudden become too focused on one team.

The refs have become to obvious about it

Does anybody here really think that the league didn’t tilt the field in Pittsburg’s favor in Super Bowl XL?

Never underestimate what levels people will take when greed is involved

 

[fire_marshall_bill]

It definitely reminds me of the NBA, especially the 90s NBA, in which the superstars get all the calls. I don't think it's really officially rigged, but there's an unwritten rule that guys like Mahomes should be babied.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Are they doing a lot of subtle things to get their desired outcome? Absolutely

Who determines the "desired outcome?"

Is there some secret owner society we don't know about that meet weekly like the Freemasons?

Is there an encrypted email sent out to all the owners asking which games they'd like the refs to cheat in?

I have so much to learn, please enlighten me.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

I watch movies for the art and escapism. I watch sports because it's the only true competitive unscripted entertainment medium.

And yes, my "official" opinion if you're keeping score at home is that the refs don't steer games. Why would the NFL risk a multi-billion dollar money making empire by committing fraud on the people who pad everyone's bank accounts.......and more importantly why would the refs and players go along with it?

Makes no sense. Fans see what they want to see to fit their subjective confirmation biases about their emotional anger.

Now do they protect their stars? Sure. Every sport does that. They know where their bread is buttered. Thus all the new rules to protect QB's, WR's, etc. Do they secretly send out instructions on which games they want the refs to help one team win over the other?

Why on earth would the owners agree with that? Especially the ones who'd be on the losing end of those directions.

I never asked you why you personally watch movies, I was using an example about how ridiculous it was for you to say "Then why even watch?"

I wish I had your naivety when it comes to opinions on the refs. There are way too many games where you'll see refs penalizing a team for a specific penalty but they won't do it in the same game against the other team when it's clear as day. You say why would the NFL risk a multi-billion dollar money making empire by committing fraud? Easy, MORE MONEY. Do you think people who have generational wealth ever stop and say "You know what, I have enough money. I think I'm going to stop making more" No. Also, they're getting away with it apparently when people like you see what's clearly in front of you and think "Nah, they wouldn't do that..."

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I never asked you why you personally watch movies, I was using an example about how ridiculous it was for you to say "Then why even watch?"

Ridiculous is thinking obvious fiction is the same as live sports.

You're grasping at comparisons because you don't have a good reason to watch something you contend is rigged. Because there wouldn't be a good reason.

My advice is to watch pro wrestling and leave the pro sports watching to us naive folk.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

Ridiculous is thinking obvious fiction is the same as live sports.

You're grasping at comparisons because you don't have a good reason to watch something you contend is rigged. Because there wouldn't be a good reason.

My advice is to watch pro wrestling and leave the pro sports watching to us naive folk.

I don't know what your obsession is with telling me what I can or can't watch. I already told you why I watch, because the season isn't over after one game and hopefully the right/deserving team wins in the end. I don't scold or belittle you for what you watch, why are you doing that to me? I'm trying to have a conversation with you and you're getting impatient with me, perhaps?

Ahhh but the NFL isn't just live sports, is it? The NFL is recognized as an "entertainment" business rather than a sport, and they can legally fix the outcome of games.

I'm not being extreme as to think everything is completely choreographed and staged, nah. But I do feel the refs have too much power and influence to make games swing just a little bit more this way instead of that. And it's so simple to persuade people who don't believe it by calling things early for the winning team and then calling things with bigger impact towards the end for the losing team so that people can say "Well, they flagged both teams so it's even". No, because there are very specific calls made that impact the game FAR GREATER than earlier calls.

I present you with one of the more extremely obvious examples of the Rams/Saints game. It couldn't be any more textbook DPI than that and they had all the evidence in the world but the call still stood. But what did people say? They EXCUSED it by saying "Well, Drew Brees had plenty of chances to win after that but he didn't." He shouldn't of HAD to!

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not being extreme as to think everything is completely choreographed and staged, nah. But I do feel the refs have too much power and influence to make games swing just a little bit more this way instead of that. And it's so simple to persuade people who don't believe it by calling things early for the winning team and then calling things with bigger impact towards the end for the losing team so that people can say "Well, they flagged both teams so it's even". No, because there are very specific calls made that impact the game FAR GREATER than earlier calls.

You still haven't answered my question, who decides the winning and losing teams on the weekly?

This is why I'm being sarcastic, cause you're making zero sense and have zero substance to your reasoning.

Fans expect perfection within an imperfect structure and officiated by imperfect human beings, and pass it off as biased or rigged.

So no, I'm not allowing you to just say "well you never know when my team's gonna beat these rigged refs all out to get them!" That's a cop out, and tells me you really don't believe what you're saying. Cause if you did you would have ditched watching pro sports a long time ago. Why on earth would someone invest so much time and energy into something that's fixed against their teams............and fixed for? Again, you and others haven't explained that part to me.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

You still haven't answered my question, who decides the winning and losing teams on the weekly?

This is why I'm being sarcastic, cause you're making zero sense and have zero substance to your reasoning.

Fans expect perfection within an imperfect structure and officiated by imperfect human beings, and pass it off as biased or rigged.

So no, I'm not allowing you to just say "well you never know when my team's gonna beat these rigged refs all out to get them!" That's a cop out, and tells me you really don't believe what you're saying. Cause if you did you would have ditched watching pro sports a long time ago. Why on earth would someone invest so much time and energy into something that's fixed against their teams............and fixed for? Again, you and others haven't explained that part to me.

I'm not quite sure whether it's the refs, Goodell, or a combination of both. I'm not even denying that the Seahawks have gotten favorable calls, I've seen LOTS of ticky tack calls in our favor and I point those out too whenever I can.

I personally don't expect perfection. What I expect is for the NFL to use THEIR TECHNOLOGY to STOP or REVERSE bs calls to swing a game but they clearly don't. They could do multiple things to actually change the game for the better and reduce penalties to swing a game but they don't. Why not? They clearly have the money to...Why don't you ask yourself that question? While you're at it, ask yourself why it's pretty much a CRIME to accuse refs for BS calls and whether it's a coach or a player they get fined for it?

I've answered your last question before, you must've skimmed through it or it just wasn't good enough for you? MONEY, and I'll even add maybe because of power.

There are times a team can be so good that it can tip the scales over BS penalties and no-calls, in those moments it makes me extremely happy and ENTERTAINED.

Edit to add: I don't think teams are targetted to fail all season. That's something you're assuming. I think it's mostly based by game and not by season/team.

 

[Threedee]

Every time an owner thinks they got screwed in a big game, here comes a new confusing subjective rule that no one knows how to implement or officiate.

illegal contact, PI, holding, roughing the passer, catch rules. Just to name a few that the league has messed with and made way more confusing then they need to be.

Cause Jerry Jones or some other spoiled brat owner didn't like the way a playoff game ended.

I personally am one of those weirdos who wonders how we got from the forward pass being illegal to players having a natural right to receive forward passes unimpeded.

I say we turn the clock back on receivers rights to the 1970s.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm not quite sure whether it's the refs, Goodell, or a combination of both. I'm not even denying that the Seahawks have gotten favorable calls, I've seen LOTS of ticky tack calls in our favor and I point those out too whenever I can.

So they're just acting all rogue without the consent of the owners who pay their salaries? Not sure billionaires who run extremely successful businesses would be OK with that, their employees risking their billions and their teams being on the losing end of something they're not in complete control of.

See, this is where you conspiracy tin foilers lose your credibility. With the chain of conspiracy command.

Obviously there's no talking you out of this, so let's leave it at that. I guess continue to enjoy wasting your time on rigged sports games?

 

[MyrtleHawk]

So they're just acting all rogue without the consent of the owners who pay their salaries? Not sure billionaires who run extremely successful businesses would be OK with that, their employees risking their billions and their teams being on the losing end of something they're not in complete control of.

See, this is where you conspiracy tin foilers lose your credibility. With the chain of conspiracy command.

Obviously there's no talking you out of this, so let's leave it at that. I guess continue to enjoy wasting your time on rigged sports games?

The NFL can tell all those billionaires "Oh the refs aren't perfect, they made a mistake and it won't happen again" while STILL refusing to hire full-time refs that can focus 100% on THEIR JOBS, which is maintaining the rules of play. And just like YOU, you believe it and accept it.

As long as there are people like you who excuse this behavior of "Everyone expects perfection from refs who aren't perfect", it will continue happening. And this is why they keep doing it, is because they can always rely on Sgt Largent types to belittle and dismiss legitimate factors that people bring up as "tin foilers".

Why don't they have full time refs, Sgt? They can clearly afford it being a multi-billion dollar money making empire, right?

These are LEGITIMATE factors that should even make YOU question the integrity of the game. But no, you won't because that's just a tad bit too "tin foiler" for you.

Obviously there's no talking you out of this, so let's leave it at that. I guess continue to enjoy wasting your time defending this shitty ref behavior?

I've answered all of your questions, why can't you answer a single question of mine?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The NFL can tell all those billionaires "Oh the refs aren't perfect, they made a mistake and it won't happen again" while STILL refusing to hire full-time refs that can focus 100% on THEIR JOBS, which is maintaining the rules of play. And just like YOU, you believe it and accept it.

As long as there are people like you who excuse this behavior of "Everyone expects perfection from refs who aren't perfect", it will continue happening. And this is why they keep doing it, is because they can always rely on Sgt Largent types to belittle and dismiss legitimate factors that people bring up as "tin foilers".

Why don't they have full time refs, Sgt? They can clearly afford it being a multi-billion dollar money making empire, right?

These are LEGITIMATE factors that should even make YOU question the integrity of the game. But no, you won't because that's just a tad bit too "tin foiler" for you.

Obviously there's no talking you out of this, so let's leave it at that. I guess continue to enjoy wasting your time defending this shitty ref behavior?

I've answered all of your questions, why can't you answer a single question of mine?

I have no idea why the refs aren't full time. Cause their job is cyclical and they'd rather not sit on their asses all off season not making money at their other successful businesses and jobs?

THIS is why you think the games are rigged? Cause the refs are part time? What sense does that make.

So yeah, there's no talking me out of this because you've had what, four pages to convince me and you've failed. I do think the owners are corrupt when it comes to protecting their own asses. Things like protecting scumbags like Dan Snyder, collusion with Kaepernick, making sure Kraft doesn't get popped for being a pervert, Deflategate.

Yep, all plausible cause there's concrete evidence to support those things. Goodell and the refs unilaterally steering and rigging games cause they think that's what the owners want when the ramifications from the players, fans and advertisers who pay billions per year would evaporate overnight if any of this was brought to light?

Err. No. Not plausible, or even makes sense from the owner's standpoint..........and that's the only standpoint that matters. They control the product.

 

[MyrtleHawk]

THIS is why you think the games are rigged? Cause the refs are part time? What sense does that make.

I've answered your questions multiple times and you keep saying things like this.

Goodell and the refs unilaterally steering and rigging games cause they think that's what the owners want when the ramifications from the players, fans and advertisers who pay billions per year would evaporate overnight if any of this was brought to light?

And this. It's like you're not even listening to me while answering questions with sarcasm and other questions.

THE NFL CAN FIX BULLSHIT CALLS/NO-CALLS BUT WON'T.

-No full time refs. Your thinking: A ref makes a mistake? Whoopsie, they don't know any better/the rules keep changing/this is only their part time job/they're not perfect.
-Clear-cut video evidence of BS calls/no-calls. Your thinking: See above.
-NFL is more registered as sport ENTERTAINMENT rather than professional sport. I wonder why?
-Any player/coach that questions the integrity of refs get fined. Why? Don't want to shine a light on that? Sensitive subject?

You don't know the answers to these questions because you don't CARE to know. Ignorance is bliss, and you keep belittling and dismissing valid points multiple times instead of even humoring me to see I may or may not have a point (even though I'm doing the same for you by answering your questions). Will it ruin the game for you if you see it the way I see it?

But yeah, keep dismissing and belittling my valid points, it's working for the NFL and that's why they keep doing it. Why are you so adamant on excusing shitty ref behavior when ONCE AGAIN the NFL COULD clean things up but NAH, they won't because PEOPLE LIKE YOU KEEP DEFENDING IT. But I bet your next post will be "Whatever, [insert another insult or condescending comment here]"