Report: Hawks Players Don't Think RW is Black Enough

[HawkWow]

While imo overblown, racism occurs everywhere and teams are not immune to it. Comprised of guys from farms as well as guys from the cities, there is always going to be someone not liking someone else. Then you add the fact some are after the other's jobs and there will be tension. And that tension is a necessary component to the entire thing (competition).

The great thing about team sports is all of these personalities learn to co-exist for the betterment of team. That, in theory, will ultimately bring them closer and with the exception of the un-reachable, make the individual wiser and more tolerant of others.

I actually had to go the opposite way of most. I grew up and played sports in an almost exclusively black area. In high school, because of gangs etc, my dad moved us out of the inner city. It wasn't easy for me to co-exist with white players, even though I myself am white. They looked at me as different and I was not use to all these (very white) white people. But I did enjoy being light years ahead of my new team mates when it came to basketball. I'm not joking. Nor am I racist.

 

[volsunghawk]

First, a huge disclaimer: I'm going to proceed as if these reports are true, and as if they actually matter. The first assumption is whatever, but the second is a load and a laugher. In terms of the Hawks' performance (and performance moving forward) I seriously doubt any of this matters. A fair number of .net posters cackled and predicted imminent doom while 9ers fans were hearing reports of internal strife earlier this year. That was dumb. It would be dumb to do the same with these reports, regardless of fandom. Again, even if true I seriously doubt if any of this matters re: the Hawks' on-field performance

Thoughts on the topic of RW dissension:


A) Although less salacious, that RW 1) is perceived as being too close to the suits and 2) won't internally take the blame for his mistakes (while presenting himself as St. Russell in the media) are much more telling about what (if anything) is going on.

B) While these claims can sometimes be true of QBs (the former in particular; the latter I've heard about Peyton, but you don't usually here it), they tend to be made about QBs who are the the unequivocal leaders of their respective teams. They're not only the face of the franchise, but the gameplan goes through them, and their stats are what drives victories. RW can't make any of those claims (yet), making him being "too close" to the suits or not taking blame a little bit more insidious of an accustation.

C) This report probably provides some insight into ADB's tweet about people presenting "fake" images in the media; St. Russell in the media doesn't match the behind the scenes guy who blames his WRs or OLine for his own mistakes.


Thoughts on the actual topic of the thread:


1. I don't know why SonicHawk is so inclined to keep on falling on his own sword (maybe he's just more optimistic than I), but people should listen to him. He's spot on in this thread over and over again. He's referenced possibly getting temp-banned for what he's posting, but that would be crazy. IMO he's showing a ton of patience actually answering the typical rhetorical bait-questions that are regularly used as a tool by some to prevent actuall discussion of these types of issues (see? I'm MUCH more pessimistic than him :lol: ).

2. As was said previously, simply reducing this to how RW speaks is entirely missing the point of the claim (which I'm not saying is a legitimate claim about RW or generally). It has much more to do with #1 and #2 (from above) than that. By way of example, Sherman grew up solidly middle class (albeit in a poor neighborhood), went to Stanford, and speaks textbook English as well as anybody. He's not getting accused of this, though. Rather than being "too close to the suits", he called out the NFL this summer for their tone deaf penalization of the "N" word b/n AA players on the field.* Long story short, seriously, this claim REALLY isn't about grammar and usage. It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more complicated than that.

3.

I'm entertained by the likelihood that most of the people playing the race card in this thread are white.

It's ALWAYS that way, just as it's ALWAYS the people who take the bait and respond seriously who are somehow treated as "politicizing" the thread and are at risk of getting warnings and bans.** It's as ridiculous as it is common.


*Like this, another conversation that's internal to the AA community which the vast majority of media and NFL fans are somehow mostly tone deaf too. It's a tension between the AA middle-upper and lower-working classes that's over 100 years old in the U.S. (e.g. the debates between W.E.B. Dubois and Booker T. Washington in the 19th century :lol: )

****Not saying here in particular, just saying across the Internet generally

And what do you suppose the race is of the people claiming that racism plays no role in this situation whatsoever?

Most likely multiple races.

 

[ZagHawk]

"Not black enough" May be a real thing but It is a term used only by the ignorant, the lazy, and the classless.

I don't know about lazy, but NFL locker rooms filled with guys in their early-mid 20s many from little towns or the hood who did nothing all through high school and college other than focus on football aren't exactly going to be the most racially sensitive and/or classy folks.

 

[Popeyejones]

Nice post HawkAround, although I think concluding that it ultimately begins and ends with PH is a tad convenient. (On the other hand, as already stated, that if true any of this ultimately matters to the team and their performance is even more questionable IMO).

HawkPower -- in my post you quoted see my my mention of "rhetorical bait-questions." If you've got something to say go for it, but in my experience cat-and-mousing with rhetorical questions is unproductive and distracting.

 

[theincrediblesok]

I would be labeled a Cornball Asian. Like HawkWow, I've lived in predominately black, and white neighborhoods. Also went to predominately black, and white schools. Culturally, I'm not too Asian enough. I listen to Rap/RnB. In highschool I got along with everybody, even goths, even though I was labeled a thug. I'm now in my 30's and my wife is white, and I have two kids that will one day be going through this. The only thing I can tell them is, be yourself. The experiences I had will shape how they respect others.

 

[HawkWow]

I would be labeled a Cornball Asian. Like HawkWow, I've lived in predominately black, and white neighborhoods. Also went to predominately black, and white schools. Culturally, I'm not too Asian enough. I listen to Rap/RnB. In highschool I got along with everybody, even goths, even though I was labeled a thug. I'm now in my 30's and my wife is white, and I have two kids that will one day be going through this. The only thing I can tell them is, be yourself. The experiences I had will shape how they respect others.

That's excellent advice bro. I'm sure you're way more well rounded than most for the experience. My pops was a pro boxer and apparently none too good. lol. We lived close to the gyms as he also trained fighters. This made me kind of a marked guy (on top of being pigment challenged). Now my parents are quite well off and my mom will go into some crying jag about how sorry she is for the way, and places, I grew up. She's out of her mind. I wouldn't trade my life for anyone's.

I have some wealthy buddies here so afraid of their own shadows they become their own worst enemies, cultivating their deepest fears. "Bro, are you sure it's cool for us to be here"?

Bad guys pick up on that and next thing you know, yep, they're victimized. You and I don't get victimized. ; )

 

[sekiuHAWK]

Can't read much more than the title on this one. Certain people like to talk about racism, then these same individuals turn around and deficate words like these from there food munchers. Some people need to look in the mirror... Complete garbage that should say a lot about those who are writing or saying this crap.

 

[theincrediblesok]

Yup, I feel the same way. I wouldn't trade it for anything, the way I grew up made me who I am today. Sometimes being street smart can help you with certain situations.

 

[Hawkpower]

First, a huge disclaimer: I'm going to proceed as if these reports are true, and as if they actually matter. The first assumption is whatever, but the second is a load and a laugher. In terms of the Hawks' performance (and performance moving forward) I seriously doubt any of this matters. A fair number of .net posters cackled and predicted imminent doom while 9ers fans were hearing reports of internal strife earlier this year. That was dumb. It would be dumb to do the same with these reports, regardless of fandom. Again, even if true I seriously doubt if any of this matters re: the Hawks' on-field performance

Thoughts on the topic of RW dissension:


A) Although less salacious, that RW 1) is perceived as being too close to the suits and 2) won't internally take the blame for his mistakes (while presenting himself as St. Russell in the media) are much more telling about what (if anything) is going on.

B) While these claims can sometimes be true of QBs (the former in particular; the latter I've heard about Peyton, but you don't usually here it), they tend to be made about QBs who are the the unequivocal leaders of their respective teams. They're not only the face of the franchise, but the gameplan goes through them, and their stats are what drives victories. RW can't make any of those claims (yet), making him being "too close" to the suits or not taking blame a little bit more insidious of an accustation.

C) This report probably provides some insight into ADB's tweet about people presenting "fake" images in the media; St. Russell in the media doesn't match the behind the scenes guy who blames his WRs or OLine for his own mistakes.


Thoughts on the actual topic of the thread:


1. I don't know why SonicHawk is so inclined to keep on falling on his own sword (maybe he's just more optimistic than I), but people should listen to him. He's spot on in this thread over and over again. He's referenced possibly getting temp-banned for what he's posting, but that would be crazy. IMO he's showing a ton of patience actually answering the typical rhetorical bait-questions that are regularly used as a tool by some to prevent actuall discussion of these types of issues (see? I'm MUCH more pessimistic than him :lol: ).

2. As was said previously, simply reducing this to how RW speaks is entirely missing the point of the claim (which I'm not saying is a legitimate claim about RW or generally). It has much more to do with #1 and #2 (from above) than that. By way of example, Sherman grew up solidly middle class (albeit in a poor neighborhood), went to Stanford, and speaks textbook English as well as anybody. He's not getting accused of this, though. Rather than being "too close to the suits", he called out the NFL this summer for their tone deaf penalization of the "N" word b/n AA players on the field.* Long story short, seriously, this claim REALLY isn't about grammar and usage. It is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more complicated than that.

3.

I'm entertained by the likelihood that most of the people playing the race card in this thread are white.

It's ALWAYS that way, just as it's ALWAYS the people who take the bait and respond seriously who are somehow treated as "politicizing" the thread and are at risk of getting warnings and bans.** It's as ridiculous as it is common.


*Like this, another conversation that's internal to the AA community which the vast majority of media and NFL fans are somehow mostly tone deaf too. It's a tension between the AA middle-upper and lower-working classes that's over 100 years old in the U.S. (e.g. the debates between W.E.B. Dubois and Booker T. Washington in the 19th century :lol: )

****Not saying here in particular, just saying across the Internet generally

And what do you suppose the race is of the people claiming that racism plays no role in this situation whatsoever?

Most likely multiple races.

Just like its likely multiple races that are claiming that racism does play a role, despite what the quoted post declared.

 

[bsuhawk]

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me. The only problem with the Seahawks is losing two games in a row. Now everyone with an audience is trying to psychoanalyze the team and claiming they have the inside scoop as to what's wrong.

There are no attitude problems on the team. How do I know? Because anyone with an attitude is catching the next train out of Seattle. I mean let's think about this for a minute. THEY FRICKIN TRADED PERCY HARVIN FOR ALMOST NOTHING BECAUSE OF HIS ATTITUDE. No one on this team is safe.

If you don't drink the Pete Carroll kool-aid then your days as a Seahawk are numbered. Don't believe me? Ask Percy Harvin.

 

[HawkWow]

This sounds like a bunch of BS to me. The only problem with the Seahawks is losing two games in a row. Now everyone with an audience is trying to psychoanalyze the team and claiming they have the inside scoop as to what's wrong.

There are no attitude problems on the team. How do I know? Because anyone with an attitude is catching the next train out of Seattle. I mean let's think about this for a minute. THEY FRICKIN TRADED PERCY HARVIN FOR ALMOST NOTHING BECAUSE OF HIS ATTITUDE. No one on this team is safe.

If you don't drink the Pete Carroll kool-aid then your days as a Seahawk are numbered. Don't believe me? Ask Percy Harvin.

PM me Harvin's number and I'll call him now. If he asks me where I got it, I will just say I got it from Mr. Kool-Aid himself.

 

[themunn]

Racism is killing someone for their skin color. Firing someone, or refusing to hire them for their skin color. Not allowing your children play with other children because of skin color. That's racism.

This is very much the problem with racism in America in that racism runs so deep that unless it's outrightly negative or disparaging from one race to another, you don't recognise it as racism. Until the country gets over that hurdle it's going to exist as a massive problem.

The "Russell Wilson isn't black enough" narrative actually has *nothing* to do with his skin colour. When "people" are suggesting that "he's not black enough" we all can read between the lines and work out that what is meant is that he is too well-spoken, well-dressed etc - the problem is that that negatively suggests that by being black, we expect "less" from him.

If I interviewed a somebody and turned them down for the job because they was "too black" for the job, I'd be rightly hung drawn and quartered for it. If I say I interviewed a candidate and I turned them down because their mannerism, speech patterns and appearance made them look inappropriate for the job... well you don't actually have any inkling as to skintone do you? He could be white, he could be black. He could be a woman. Literally none of these things are relevant to the role, and nor should colour be considered as it is absolutely irrelevant to everything in the real world (except ability to cope with UV sunlight).

The reality is that any correlation between skin colour and an assumption is racism though - America is just so so far behind much of the rest of the world that they don't realise it. Something as simple as saying "Oh, you don't like hip-hop? That's strange, I thought you would because you are black" - you are automatically making an assumption about somebody based purely on their skin colour and nothing else. It's racism, you just don't realise it because you've witnessed so much worse, and it is wholly unfortunate for such a great country to be plagued by such misunderstanding.

 

[titan3131]

Racism is killing someone for their skin color. Firing someone, or refusing to hire them for their skin color. Not allowing your children play with other children because of skin color. That's racism.

This is very much the problem with racism in America in that racism runs so deep that unless it's outrightly negative or disparaging from one race to another, you don't recognise it as racism. Until the country gets over that hurdle it's going to exist as a massive problem.

The "Russell Wilson isn't black enough" narrative actually has *nothing* to do with his skin colour. When "people" are suggesting that "he's not black enough" we all can read between the lines and work out that what is meant is that he is too well-spoken, well-dressed etc - the problem is that that negatively suggests that by being black, we expect "less" from him.

If I interviewed a guy and turned him down for the job because he was "too black" for the job, I'd be rightly hung drawn and quartered for it. If I say I interviewed a candidate and I turned him down because his mannerism, speech patterns and appearance made him look inappropriate for the job... well you don't actually have any inkling as to skintone do you? And nor should you since it is absolutely irrelevant to everything in the real world (except ability to cope with UV sunlight).

The reality is that any correlation between skin colour and an assumption is racism though - America is just so so far behind much of the rest of the world that they don't realise it. Something as simple as saying "Oh, you don't like hip-hop? That's strange, I thought you would because you are black" - you are automatically making an assumption about somebody based purely on their skin colour and nothing else. It's racism, you just don't realise it because you've witnessed so much worse, and it is wholly unfortunate for such a great country to be plagued by such misunderstanding.

I agree with some of what you said.

But being prejudiced doesn't make u racist. Racism is a hatred of a race. Prejudice while not being right doesn't mean that u automatically hate that race.

The same thing goes with the n word, I have friends that use it and are ok with me using it. Because its a word, using a word doesn't make me a racist.

Americas entire cultural issue with racism stems from people fulling the stereotype. Minorities are more prejudice then the majority of people especially in seattle.

I don't see people in colors. But a hypothetical player calling someone not black enough? All that means is they don't see people, they see white people, black people red people. And that is a bigger problem imo.

As a American I consider myself that. But most minorities will say african American, hispanic, jew whatever. They choose their color as what defines them, guess what Russell is defined by his actions not the color of his parents.

I'm not saying don't be proud of ur heritage, but let who you are be ur choice not some racial stigma or cultural pressure.


Tldr
Haters gonna hate, and Russell is gonna get paid more then any color guy on the hawks... so jelly maybe u should use his model and see what happena.

 

[HawkWow]

One hurdle in the fight against racism is the PC crowd that is scared to death of the very words black and white. It really is ridiculous. Pussyfooting around such stuff just leads to discomfort. Discomfort leads to misunderstanding and misunderstanding leads to fighting.

I'm white, you're black, I'm glad we got that over with and why was this thought to be a problem in the 1st place?

That's how I've dealt with the situation my entire life. Honesty breeds respect and mutual respect = no racism.

 

[brimsalabim]

While I don't think that it ends with Percy I think it's pretty obvious it began with him. I'm glad he is gone. He will likely have more respect for Mike Vick since he has done time and fights Pitt bulls and fits the profile of what Percy believes a black man should be.

I just watched a segment on sports center a bout Russ not being black enough and it occurs to me that no one has defined what he is actually not black enough to do?

 

[SouthSoundHawk]

I'm curious if the idiots making these statements feel the same way about Richard Sherman..

Can't believe there are bonebags that actually think this...especially in Seattle's locker room.

 

[brimsalabim]

FWIW Stephen A Smith went off on this subject this morning on a Mike & Mike segment. He also said that he gets accused of the same almost every time he takes a position that is not popular with some in the black community. He pointed out that Tiger Woods, Muhammad Ali, and Michael Jordon among others have been accused of the same so Russell is in pretty good company,

 

[SonicHawk]

My posts get deleted? Are you kidding me?

 

[WendellWent]

My posts get deleted? Are you kidding me?

:snack:

 

[SonicHawk]

I'm curious if the idiots making these statements feel the same way about Richard Sherman..

Can't believe there are bonebags that actually think this...especially in Seattle's locker room.

Considering Sherman grew up in Compton, probably not. If you think being articulate is the issue with RW that is racism or at best ignorance.

I'm going to assume that it's plain ignorance on this issue. The best intentions with none of the context.