Random thoughts on the Denver preseason game

[Anthony!]

I never said stats alone was all I use, by even in the eye test TJ was better

For sure. I think (most) of us would agree that Tjack is better.

Scotte's point is that you probably shouldn't rely on preseason stats to judge a QBs performance, but by the context of how he played and the kinds of plays he was making. In that sense, it's okay to credit a QB with a pass that should have been caught. He wasn't withholding credit from Tjack, in fact you can see him debating someone else in this thread where he says that Tjack is clearly better than Pryor.

I watched a preseason game last year where Nick Foles faced Carolina and left the game with a 60 passer rating. But I knew he was going to have a great season, because he passed at will against a young, elite defense (a single bad pass tanked his rating in a small sample size). I think Foles surprised a lot of people because they didn't watch him actually play. Pryor is not good yet, but when you break down what he does you see why Seattle likes him.

As I said the ye test he was not better. Forget the bad pass for INT, or the screen that was not a great pass but could have been caught, it is what he missed. On the int had he thrown it 1 second sooner there was a wide open guy right in front of him, he did not see him. on several runs he had open WR right in front of him but once he decides to run he is running done over. I saw little that said he was any different than he was in Oakland. I also saw very little progression in his reads. I agree he is not good, and so far its open and shut TJ is our backup. Now after game 2 that might change but not as of now.

 

[kearly]

Keary....this place needs your random thoughts posts, period. It's what a lot of posters, and lurkers like myself, look forward to. Not for your insight alone, but the others that piggyback off of these posts. The dude with Al Bundy as his avatar seems to only posts via replies, and he's a VERY smart and underrated poster.

Tical is one of the best, I agree.

 

[Anthony!]

Wow, he played through pain...I'm not impressed. He plays below average in a system that he has been in for 9 years. Being a great guy and being respected does not make him a good QB...if it did, he would be a good QB, but he's not a good QB. He has got to be the slowest decision maker that I have ever seen play the position. It seems to take him a full second longer to pull the trigger on a pass than it takes others. If he didn't have such a strong arm that bails him out of a few of his slow decisions, he wouldn't be in the league.

Pryor has every bit of the arm that Tarvaris has, but makes quicker decisions and can run if needed. Neither one of these guys are among the best decision makers. I already know what one of these guys can do and it isn't good. I'd rather rely on the unknown than I would go with what I know is just not very good.

You can talk about 9 years in the NFL, but in reality he's played 1 full season as an NFL QB (and another with 12 games in his sophmore year).

He's a bit like Josh McCown in that respect, who came in for the Bears and tossed 13 TDs to 1 INT in relief of Cutler, and helping them to win a few games in his absence. And before McCown came in last year for the Bears his career looked worse than Jackson's in almost every single facet of the game.

It's not so much the games played, it's that Tarvaris plays as bad as he does after being in the same system for all nine of his seasons. If Tarvaris could get anywhere near a 13/1 ratio, I would eat my words, but that will never happen for him as a backup. It took him a full season to get 14 touchdowns and he throws just as many ints when he plays more than mop up duty.

Pryor looked pretty good with two months in the system that Tarvaris has been in for nine years. The way I see it is that if Pryor can look just as good in only two months, and he offers as much potential as he does, it's a lot closer competition than the Tarvaris supporters want it to be.

I'm pulling for Pryor because I already know Tarvaris is awful.

Good for you I am not because Pryor is worse, and also a free agent next year who will bolt if he can any place for a chance to start, so why put so much work into a guy who will leave, its a waste of time and a roster spot. Unless they are hoping to do the stupidest thing there would be. I want a backup who I feel can win at least half of his games while in there, and Pryor is not that guy.

 

[kearly]

Kip. The PAT doesnt have to be automatic to be fair. Its due for a change probably because the league wants to replace the drama on special teams play..
Remember kickers are always among the top scorers on any given team. A serviceable kicker averages a million/year and pretty much stays on the periphery of a team. We made their jobs easier by moving kickoffs to the 35. By doing this we've just about eliminated the distance-kicking specialists and reduced the big kick return plays. The new rules may serve to create more exciting plays as many were lost following rule changes due to the concussion policy.

I like the angle you take, even though it doesn't change my mind. And again for the 30th time, I never said the new rule is unfair.

 

[scutterhawk]

Regarding Pryor, my amateur evaluation is that in college and in Oakland he was accustomed to just taking off and using his 4.3 speed when breaking out of the pocket. But in this game, he seemed to be running at 70% speed while keeping his eyes downfield, running parallel to the sideline. He seemed really uncomfortable doing this, and the shaky accuracy also hints at a lack of repetition in these situations.

The final throw also hinted at lack of experience. The throw had perfect accuracy, if Lockette had not been defended. In that situation, a veteran QB would throw to the outside shoulder where only the receiver could get the ball, but Pryor did not have this awareness.

Tjack looked pretty crappy when he first came here, especially in that first lockout shortened preseason. Now he looks awesome. I think a lot of that had to do with him changing habits for the better and getting used to them.

It could just be that Pryor is a lost cause. But I'd be willing to give him a year and see what happens unless it means he's bumping a very good player off the 53 man. Watching Pryor I get the feeling there is something to him, unlike previous backups like CBJ. His preseason debut was a hell of a lot better than Tjack's in 2011 (Tjack was awful that preseason and awful early in the regular season). I think he's an intriguing player, even if he's not a player we need.

I think the Raiders saw Pryor as a more polished Quarterback than he actually was, but I think Bevel knew that he wasn't being coached in the right direction, and that maybe he could get him to tear down, and re-tool himself into a much better signal caller.
I think that that's why he looked so befuddled, and indecisive at times in this game.
I think he's worth the time investment, because if he finally does get "IT", he could be an outstanding backup Quarterback for us.

 

[kearly]

As I said the ye test he was not better. Forget the bad pass for INT, or the screen that was not a great pass but could have been caught, it is what he missed. On the int had he thrown it 1 second sooner there was a wide open guy right in front of him, he did not see him. on several runs he had open WR right in front of him but once he decides to run he is running done over. I saw little that said he was any different than he was in Oakland. I also saw very little progression in his reads. I agree he is not good, and so far its open and shut TJ is our backup. Now after game 2 that might change but not as of now.

I don't think anyone is saying that Pryor performance was stellar. It's just that we saw enough to understand why PC/JS wanted him as a project QB. You wouldn't expect Pryor to look too much different than his days in Oakland after just his first game with the Hawks.

People keep bringing up Pryor's FA status like it means something. Unless he gets promoted to starter and goes on a tear, the demand for his services next year will be very low. He'll be an easy player to sign back for the minimum or very close. It won't be an issue. Tjack is a better QB and free agency hasn't been an issue for keeping him either.

 

[bigskydoc]

Some of TP's failure to get the ball out on scrambles is because he didn't know if he was beyond the line of scrimmage or not.

You can see him make the read on an open guy, but then he look for the LOS and run out of room before he can get the pass off.

You would think that at this point in a running QB's career, knowing where the LOS is should be pretty automatic.

Perhaps it is the new system or ???

I wasn't hugely impressed with his body of work at Ohio State and barely paid any attention to him in Oakland. I did see some potential there against the Broncs scrubs and I hope to see him get some good second team reps against the Bears.

-bsd

 

[fenderbender123]

Late to this party but just wanted to chime in on the "Random Thoughts" issue. Kearly, I literally stay up late waiting for your write-ups. You have a following larger than you think I believe. Please reconsider.

Many thanks from this long time fan of your writing.

Another Montanian (Montanite?) that enjoys your Random Thoughts threads. I specifically sought it out when I logged in. I don't always agree, but you make good observations and you make me think, and that deserves a lot of kudos.

 

[Anthony!]

As I said the ye test he was not better. Forget the bad pass for INT, or the screen that was not a great pass but could have been caught, it is what he missed. On the int had he thrown it 1 second sooner there was a wide open guy right in front of him, he did not see him. on several runs he had open WR right in front of him but once he decides to run he is running done over. I saw little that said he was any different than he was in Oakland. I also saw very little progression in his reads. I agree he is not good, and so far its open and shut TJ is our backup. Now after game 2 that might change but not as of now.

I don't think anyone is saying that Pryor performance was stellar. It's just that we saw enough to understand why PC/JS wanted him as a project QB. You wouldn't expect Pryor to look too much different than his days in Oakland after just his first game with the Hawks.

People keep bringing up Pryor's FA status like it means something. Unless he gets promoted to starter and goes on a tear, the demand for his services next year will be very low. He'll be an easy player to sign back for the minimum or very close. It won't be an issue. Tjack is a better QB and free agency hasn't been an issue for keeping him either.

If he had another year after this on his contract I would agree, but he does not. Also I disagree with you I think teams will want Pryor, for one he is young, Some team who does not have their QB will give him real chance, one he really does not have hear he was never going to start over Rw. Add to that some team might think they can make him change positions something we have been un willing or unable to do. I would have expected Pryor a former starter in this league to look better against 3s and guys who might not even be in this league in a month than he did. I can see why PC got him, He is fast, He is big but he is not a QB.

 

[Anthony!]

Some of TP's failure to get the ball out on scrambles is because he didn't know if he was beyond the line of scrimmage or not.

You can see him make the read on an open guy, but then he look for the LOS and run out of room before he can get the pass off.

You would think that at this point in a running QB's career, knowing where the LOS is should be pretty automatic.

Perhaps it is the new system or ???

I wasn't hugely impressed with his body of work at Ohio State and barely paid any attention to him in Oakland. I did see some potential there against the Broncs scrubs and I hope to see him get some good second team reps against the Bears.

-bsd

So wait a QB in his 2nd year and former starter has no awareness of were he is on the field? really and you want him as your backup QB, I mean he played college ball, the same rules this is his 2nd year in the NFL, he played HS ball and after all that still no awareness were he is on the field. Hmm that is a huge problem

 

[Pandion Haliaetus]

Pages 4 and 5 have been mildly amusing.

rideaducti- Thinks Tarvaris Jackson is worthless and horrible coming off analysis based on his play in 2011 and before.

Yet, since that time and after being traded in 2012 then coming back in 2013, Jackson has looked incredibly poised in the System and has looked more relaxed since accepting a back-up role behind Wilson. Jackson made $1 mil last year and signed a 1 yr, 1.5 mil guaranteed contract this year. If anyone thinks that is expensive (even compared to Pryor) needs to look at what teams gave to Clipboard Jesus, Kellen Clemons, Michael Vick, and Mark Sanchez among others.

Anthony!- has been campaigning that Terrell Pryor has essentially sucked and doesn't belong. He then goes on to say that Pryor might be good enough for teams to give him a starting opportunity and I would like to know who those teams are because dissecting every team, you only have the Texans that seem realistic and Pryor will be competing with some decent guys who can be better stop-gaps. So, realistically if Pryor makes the team and likes where he's at and doesn't see a 100% bonafide opportunity, he very well can just re-sign and learn to maximize his abilities through Wilson and the Coaching staff.

Lastly, I don't believe there is an either or competition between Jackson and Pryor.

I think the smartest of us believe that as long as Jackson continues to perform like he has that plus experience in this system and his contract insures he'll be the 2nd QB behind Wilson.

Pryor is more or less competing with Daniels and others to try and make a statement that he's good enough to keep. And in the end I think the Seahawks keep 3 QBs.

Like others have stated, no more emergency QB Michael Robinson and Kam Chanchellor is just coming back from surgery.

You release Pryor and certainly San Fran picks him up because he's a poor, poor mans Kaepernick and since they were interested in trading for him even after sending a 6th rounder for Gabbert.. Then you hope BJ Daniels can survive long enough to the PS, when every team that plays the Seahawks will realize he's the perfect QB to scout Wilson.

It just makes logical sense the Seahawks will keep 3 QBs, unless as Kearly said their is a must keep player that has more value to the team.

 

[Skansi82]

To echo what many have said Random Thoughts is my favorite thing to read on this board. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the game of football, but have learned a lot from your posts......particularly in regards to the play of the interior linemen on both sides of the ball. Keep up the good work......

 

[rideaducati]

Pages 4 and 5 have been mildly amusing.

rideaducti- Thinks Tarvaris Jackson is worthless and horrible coming off analysis based on his play in 2011 and before.

Yet, since that time and after being traded in 2012 then coming back in 2013, Jackson has looked incredibly poised in the System and has looked more relaxed since accepting a back-up role behind Wilson. Jackson made $1 mil last year and signed a 1 yr, 1.5 mil guaranteed contract this year. If anyone thinks that is expensive (even compared to Pryor) needs to look at what teams gave to Clipboard Jesus, Kellen Clemons, Michael Vick, and Mark Sanchez among others.

Anthony!- has been campaigning that Terrell Pryor has essentially sucked and doesn't belong. He then goes on to say that Pryor might be good enough for teams to give him a starting opportunity and I would like to know who those teams are because dissecting every team, you only have the Texans that seem realistic and Pryor will be competing with some decent guys who can be better stop-gaps. So, realistically if Pryor makes the team and likes where he's at and doesn't see a 100% bonafide opportunity, he very well can just re-sign and learn to maximize his abilities through Wilson and the Coaching staff.

Lastly, I don't believe there is an either or competition between Jackson and Pryor.

I think the smartest of us believe that as long as Jackson continues to perform like he has that plus experience in this system and his contract insures he'll be the 2nd QB behind Wilson.

Pryor is more or less competing with Daniels and others to try and make a statement that he's good enough to keep. And in the end I think the Seahawks keep 3 QBs.

Like others have stated, no more emergency QB Michael Robinson and Kam Chanchellor is just coming back from surgery.

You release Pryor and certainly San Fran picks him up because he's a poor, poor mans Kaepernick and since they were interested in trading for him even after sending a 6th rounder for Gabbert.. Then you hope BJ Daniels can survive long enough to the PS, when every team that plays the Seahawks will realize he's the perfect QB to scout Wilson.

It just makes logical sense the Seahawks will keep 3 QBs, unless as Kearly said their is a must keep player that has more value to the team.

That pretty much sums up my opinion of Tarvaris. The 39 snaps he has taken since 2011 in mop up duty with big leads in games hasn't swayed my opinion in the least amount. He still makes decisions that can be timed with a calendar before throwing the ball.

Does anyone else recall yelling "THROW THE DAMN BALL!" at their tv EVERY TIME Tarvaris dropped back to pass?

 

[themunn]

That pretty much sums up my opinion of Tarvaris. The 39 snaps he has taken since 2011 in mop up duty with big leads in games hasn't swayed my opinion in the least amount. He still makes decisions that can be timed with a calendar before throwing the ball.

Does anyone else recall yelling "THROW THE DAMN BALL!" at their tv EVERY TIME Tarvaris dropped back to pass?

Don't you think it's telling that Wilson holds the ball on average for longer than any other QB in the league?

Is it because Wilson takes so long to make a decision that it can be timed with a calendar?

Perhaps it has something to do with Pete's philosophy to not take risks, combined with the fact that our receivers have not been particularly great at getting separation for a long time.

 

[rastahawk]

Having haters is part of the game. Haters don't contribute they just hate. Your posts are one of the few I actually read in its entirety. The questions about your fandom is just pure stupidity. Its apparent that some people on this forum haven't experienced success at anything because to achieve it sometimes you go against the grain of logic. You know what, yeah I will find myself rooting for draft position, crap I even thought of walking away from football entirely. The time vested and emotional drain gets too much at times and believe it or not there is more to life than football. If that doesn't make me a " true " fan then so be it because I don't care what anybody thinks because in my heart of hearts I'm a fan and " I " know it. Don't need some jackass telling me what a fan is. When we named RW the starter in 2012 I looked at that schedule and said we're looking at a 5 win season while RW learns the ropes. But man you were so optimistic and kept saying how good he and that team was and to top it off you started talking about the SB. You were right. And we beat the mighty Pats and Packers along the way too! At the end of the 2012 season my confidence level was so high and I believed we finally had the team that can beat anybody. You always have sound analysis and offer valid insights about the different aspects of the team and the players. If you don't decide to continue then good on you. You'll have a lot more hours of your time back. If you do decide to continue a lot of us will be silently thankful

 

[Bigpumpkin]

To echo what many have said Random Thoughts is my favorite thing to read on this board. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the game of football, but have learned a lot from your posts......particularly in regards to the play of the interior linemen on both sides of the ball. Keep up the good work......

Whoa....Paul Skansi reads this board?

 

[rideaducati]

That pretty much sums up my opinion of Tarvaris. The 39 snaps he has taken since 2011 in mop up duty with big leads in games hasn't swayed my opinion in the least amount. He still makes decisions that can be timed with a calendar before throwing the ball.

Does anyone else recall yelling "THROW THE DAMN BALL!" at their tv EVERY TIME Tarvaris dropped back to pass?

Don't you think it's telling that Wilson holds the ball on average for longer than any other QB in the league?

Is it because Wilson takes so long to make a decision that it can be timed with a calendar?

Perhaps it has something to do with Pete's philosophy to not take risks, combined with the fact that our receivers have not been particularly great at getting separation for a long time.

Perhaps, but Russell has actually gotten better where Tarvaris hasn't. Russell has the ability to run and actually makes the decision to do so before being sacked...Tarvaris doesn't. Russell holds the ball and then throws it eventually for a completion... Tarvaris doesn't. Russell wins, Tarvaris doesn't.

We already know Tarvaris doesn't. Pryor might.

 

[Jville]

Seems to me the dominant question, with regards to Travis and Pryor, is .......... who looks to take care of the football best going into the regular season. I think the balance of the preseason will speak to that.

 

[Jville]

To echo what many have said Random Thoughts is my favorite thing to read on this board. I consider myself pretty knowledgeable about the game of football, but have learned a lot from your posts......particularly in regards to the play of the interior linemen on both sides of the ball. Keep up the good work......

You know what ....... kearly's posts have had an impact on me as well. I found myself going back thru the latest video frame-by-frame. I specifically watched the interior trio of Caylin Hauptmann, Lemuel Jeanpierre, and Stephen Schilling. I came away with a richer appreciation of the backup competition for what will probably be two roster spots.

thanks kearly

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Perhaps it has something to do with Pete's philosophy to not take risks, combined with the fact that our receivers have not been particularly great at getting separation for a long time.

You answered your own question.

Russell is perfectly fine with getting rid of the ball on time. When you see him hold onto it and/or scramble it's because no one's open.

So no it's not because he's being indecisive, it's because our WR's can't get separation on time.