Random Thoughts™ on the Arizona game

[AgentDib]

I have no particular rooting interest in Bevell, and if the team decides they can do better this off season then they should replace him.

I referenced the Zach Miller soundbite as the game plan that I agreed with, and it looked to me like a good strategy that we just could not implement. The main problem I see with our current offense is that we have struggled to punish teams that play man coverage against us, and that allows them to key on our running game. I also thought that we had trouble on both sides of the line of scrimmage tonight against a very good team and that further hampered our running game.

Was it that wrong to follow the textbook and take shots against man coverage? It has worked for us in the past and led to our only TD today. We just didn't win those 1 on 1's and make enough plays. I know the popular thing around here is to talk about how many screens and bubble screens we should have run, but the Cards LBs brought it today too. Washington and Dansby were flying around the field and before the game I bet most people would have thought going after Shaunessy(SP?)/Cason sounded like a smarter option. I do agree with the crticisms to an extent that it did not look like we had much of a backup plan when their secondary was able to shut down our receivers.

 

[Hawkscanner]

Would also add that the lack of a Sweezy hurt some as well. Both in the run game and in continuity along the inside where the Cards were attacking.

To me, if I were to point to a single factor that was the root cause of our loss tonight ... the offensive line would be it. I hate to say it, but Sweezy's absence may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, as having McQuistan and Carpenter out there at the same time was just disastrous from what I could see. At the risk of vomiting, I'll go back and re-watch this debacle ... but to me, the guard play in particular is what cost Seattle the game.

Marshawn Lynch was really bottled up for the most part ... and Russell Wilson was under fire all night long. All of that has a central core -- the play of the offensive line. McQuistan and Carpenter are just so slow footed in their reactions -- Calais Campbell, Daryl Washington, and the rest of the Front 7 just had their way with those guys. And then you hear afterwards about Okung's toe was sore again after the game ... and couple that with Unger's nagging pectoral issue along with the bad guard play, that's just a recipe for disaster. The offensive line play is something that simply has got to improve.

 

[Hawkscanner]

BTW, the ball clearly hit the ground on that last interception. Not only the dirt flying in the air, but the physics of how it bounced made it very obvious. That has to be one of the worst replay decisions of the entire NFL season, when factoring the magnitude of it especially. I also think Pete's lost challenge on a fumble was a poor officiating decision too. From one angle you could see the runner lying on top of a seahawk, his knees did not touch early, and his arm did not touch early either, then on the other angle you can see the ball come out when he's 18 inches off the ground. I'm a little more forgiving of that one, but that was a botched review as well. How rare to have two of those in against Seattle in the same game, in the same 4th quarter of a tight game.

Yeah, I was talking with a friend of mine after the game and he pointed out that exact fact. On the "interception" to Baldwin, you simply don't get that kind of bounce off of someone's arm. Only the ground can do that. The physics of that is painfully obvious. That said, the ball was really under-thrown. It was a bad throw by Wilson -- one of many on the day.

On the Michael Bennett non-fumble that actually was one ... again, I don't know how you can botch that one either. What you're saying is exactly right.

 

[AgentDib]

To me, if I were to point to a single factor that was the root cause of our loss tonight ... the offensive line would be it. I hate to say it, but Sweezy's absence may have been the straw that broke the camel's back, as having McQuistan and Carpenter out there at the same time was just disastrous from what I could see. At the risk of vomiting, I'll go back and re-watch this debacle ... but to me, the guard play in particular is what cost Seattle the game.

Do you have a feeling for how much Bowie played and how effective he was? From my seats it felt like they were getting a lot of interior pressure but I have a terrible angle on the line.

 

[The Outfield]

I love you, Kearly. The only thing I want to say is that I believe it's very, very unlikely that Carroll restricted Bevell in any way. Carroll's a defensive guy. Did we see Carroll in Bevell's face, or holding up the offensive play card speaking into his mic while we were on offense? No.

Carroll's absolutely responsible for Bevell overall, but I can't really imagine a way to put today's offensive play calling on Carroll more than a very small amount at most.

In fact, Pete typically takes his mic off completely when we transition from defense to offense.

 

[Anthony!]

I dunno, the defense had to to all the work, the entire game. If it was a back and forth battle I'd be more inclined to say something about the D. Today, they were the only thing keeping us in the game. Offense gave them no time to rest, and no margin for error.

A defense talked about being one of the best of all time, boasting 2 DPY candidates should be able to stop a team form marching down 80 yards with a lead in the 4th qtr. That's what SB caliber defenses do, and this is not the first time they have failed like this either, it is a pattern.

 

[Tical21]

I thought the playcalling was pretty good. They blitzed, left one on one, and we had a really dinged up WR core. Still, our guys won their routes and got open down the field. And Russell, uncharacteristically, didn't give them a chance to make plays. I would have liked to have seen more slants, but with Kearse hobbled and Tate having a bad hand, who are you going to throw the slant to? So instead, we took shots. We just didn't connect on any of them.

I think Lynch is done. To me, he hasn't looked right all year. He doesn't run into piles of bodies at full steam with the confidence that he is going to come out the other side. He started doing the "skip". Watch when he gets the ball. He does a skip, trying to find a hole, before he hits it. He used to hit it and think later. Now, he very well could get it up for a few games in the playoffs, but I'm convinced he's hit the RB wall.

Now we get the Rams. The team that pressed and blitz at will against us last time. 7 sacks. We're going to have to hit the slant, and we're going to have to hit the fade. Time to see if we've improved and learned from the lesson they taught us last time.

 

[Anthony!]

What were your thoughts about the first half?

Russell's not blameless. I'd say for our offensive woes in the first half, I'd put about 15% on Russell, 20% on the O-line, 25% on the receivers, and the remaining 40% on Bevell. In the 2nd half, Bevell's at least 70% at fault, IMO. Not changing our offensive game plan considering how the first half went is inexcusable. It absolutely cannot be ignored or written off as "bad execution", though we definitely had a fair bit of that, too.

I agree

 

[Anthony!]

I thought the playcalling was pretty good. They blitzed, left one on one, and we had a really dinged up WR core. Still, our guys won their routes and got open down the field. And Russell, uncharacteristically, didn't give them a chance to make plays. I would have liked to have seen more slants, but with Kearse hobbled and Tate having a bad hand, who are you going to throw the slant to? So instead, we took shots. We just didn't connect on any of them.

I think Lynch is done. To me, he hasn't looked right all year. He doesn't run into piles of bodies at full steam with the confidence that he is going to come out the other side. He started doing the "skip". Watch when he gets the ball. He does a skip, trying to find a hole, before he hits it. He used to hit it and think later. Now, he very well could get it up for a few games in the playoffs, but I'm convinced he's hit the RB wall.

Now we get the Rams. The team that pressed and blitz at will against us last time. 7 sacks. We're going to have to hit the slant, and we're going to have to hit the fade. Time to see if we've improved and learned from the lesson they taught us last time.

Dude I was at the game, I was listening to WM, our Wr were not winning any battles at all. Warren Moon (WM) said the same thing our WR were not winning any battles or getting any seperation at all. Rw gave them chances to make plays they failed, Baldwin had 2 and dropped them, Kearse had 1 dropped, Tate 1 dropped. As to other plays, well Wr screens, ML in the pass game, Te, there were options, options our OC did not use. The 1 drive that the OC let Rw be Rw we scored a TD on and then right back to the same stuff that was not working.

 

[Evil_Shenanigans]

Let me start by saying that I am not one to damn a team or individual for a single poor outing. Last night’s game was not an easy one to watch without yelling at the TV more than a few times. So with that being said I will start by saying that our Defense was actually pretty solid tonight against an obviously talented opponent. 4 interceptions and holding a team to 307 total yards of offense would on any other day have been reason for praise. That they did so after being on the field for nearly 38 minutes and only giving up 17 points is testament to a solid squad! The run defense gave up 139 yards though so that is one area for them to get to work! Even though he got beat on that last TD Byron Maxwell did about as good a job as you could possibly ask and I think he has shown that he can be a legitimate starting corner for this team! I can’t help but wonder what would have happened with the Cards running game were KJ there last night!

Special teams was uncharacteristically off last night and at a time when we really needed them most they were beset on all sides by mistakes that they just don’t typically make. If you were to tell me that Hauschka would bang two kicks off the goal posts in a single game at any time this year I would have called you a nutter. If you were to tell me that Robert Turbin would fumble two successive kick returns in the same game I would also have called you crazy. Suffice it to say that the ST squad in general had its worst outing in a long time and has work to do today.

The offensive scheme was always going to be about getting Marshawn going. And in the first half he was actually doing the deed thanks to a few decent runs and some hard fought short ones. I think he had something like 60 yards in the first half. I need to re-watch the game to see if we just de-emphasized him or if the Cards just adjusted to him in the second half. What is becoming more and more clear, is the need for a legitimate #2 running back. The Drop off between Turbin and Lynch is too great to ignore for much longer. The balance between Mendenahll and Ellington was not lost on me during yesterday’s game and most of the big time Defensive teams we face now have a potent 1-2 running combo. We need to do better than 2- 3rd down conversions! I know, I know we have Harvin waiting in the wings!

Russell had his worst outing as a pro last night but that wasn’t entirely on him. Without sounding like a bunch of excuse making, he was simply reined in by the Cards last night. I am hoping that the coaching staff watches that game film last night and tries to help him out because every other team sure as hell will be watching it! His accuracy was off and he was ducking and running a lot, which killed his timing last night so that’s the stuff he can work on. I have watched every game of his the last 2 years and last night he simply never looked like Russell Wilson out there. He will respond accordingly of that I have no doubt! As it was I saw more than a few opportunities left on the field for a patented Russell Wilson run. C’est la Vie.

Our receiver’s all looked banged up out there last night or at least that’s the way it seemed. The inability to get any meaningful separation combined with our inability to run the ball the second half was just too much to overcome against a daunting Cardinals Defense. Hopefully none of the injuries is significant because we have a lack of depth at receiver at the moment and its all hands on deck from here on!

Penalties: I have complained (pointlessly?) for this entire season about the need to deal with the penalties. Now I grant you there were a few calls last night that I (likely a lot of us) don’t agree with. Most of us will never acknowledge a well officiated game. Last night was no exception. But the net result of all of those penalties is that we gave the Cards 102 yards and 6 first downs on penalties last night! That effectively erases our entire running game from the stats and gifts our opponents 6 highly coveted first downs when our defense was in need of a breather at least. Believe me I know that there is no way to simply get away from all the penalties and still play close defense. But the team as a whole needs to show more discipline in this regard!

Go Hawks!

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

IMO: The TEAM lost the game, not any one individual. A combination of "unfortunate events" made this a game that got away from the Seahawks late in the game, shit happens.

RW is charged by PC with "not turning the ball over, (as in interceptions)". Playing to not get intercepted can and has caused RW to be pretty conservative in his throws and he seldom throws into really tight windows. In a game where the receivers struggle to get open, with a leaky OL and further conservative play calling by the OC, against a top NFL defense & it's understandable that play execution suffers. Hopefully, the players and coaches figure out this coming week exactly what went wrong and how to correct it. We don't need a blueprint for other teams that shows them how to defend us.

The team as a whole wins games (12, so far), and the team as a whole loses games (3, so far). Many on this board at the start of the season were predicting a record of 12-4 at their very best. I have to believe that 13-3 is still one of the best records we've seen in years as fans (and that will happen next week against the Lambs). Go Hawks.

 

[Scottemojo]

Kip, I agree with you on most.

I will add my take.

Unger had a horrible day. He and Bowie screwed up a huge gain when both appeared to think the other guy was getting the only tackler in sight on a screen. Unger got his ass handed to him by Campbell more than once.

3rd and 12. We run play action. I simply don't get it. It appears to me that we call more play action in non play action situations when we have backup linemen. I think teams are sitting on play action, they don't respect our receivers all that much, and it isn't like we use the area behind the linebackers to throw to much anyway.

Both PI calls on Sherm were crap. As were the int off Baldwins arm and the non fumble.

Delay of game at the three yard line. No excuse for that.

Turbin should never be a kick returner. Not because he fumbled, that was the first of his career. No, he stinks at it. I think he tripped on a gnat on one return. His hips appear to be made of some wiggle free material.


All in all, it was the worst performance I have seen from the Hawks. Out coached, out muscled on the O-line, and it felt like a loss was pending for the entire second half.

I haven't felt that way in a long time.

 

[RolandDeschain]

I would have liked to have seen more slants, but with Kearse hobbled and Tate having a bad hand, who are you going to throw the slant to?

How about to the guy that we DID complete a slant to? Tate caught one slant. That's the only one I can recall from the whole game.

 

[Jville]

Dude I was at the game, I was listening to WM, our Wr were not winning any battles at all. Warren Moon (WM) said the same thing our WR were not winning any battles or getting any seperation at all. Rw gave them chances to make plays they failed, Baldwin had 2 and dropped them, Kearse had 1 dropped, Tate 1 dropped. As to other plays, well Wr screens, ML in the pass game, Te, there were options, options our OC did not use. The 1 drive that the OC let Rw be Rw we scored a TD on and then right back to the same stuff that was not working.

Thanks for posting Warren Moons observations. I thought, independantly, that Arizona successfuly contested Seattles red line receivers. The goal of red line receivers is to own the red line. They didn't do that against Arizona. This isn't the first game Seattle receivers have struggled because their ownership of the red line has been denied. I see it as a significant challenge going forward.

 

[muxpux]

as soon as this game ended, i turned to my buddy and said, "i hate to be a cliche fan, but the refs screwed us" we get a lot of flack for still bringing up XL, but this was bad. the fumble that was ruled down was a fumble, as Kearly mentioned, if you "combine" the views, the guy is clearly not down. and we all know about the incompletion to seal it. this game just had a bad vibe the whole time.

were still ok

 

[Largent80]

We got outplayed, outhustled, and the Cards wanted it more and needed it more than the Hawks, that is the game synopsis.

If Seattle doesn't pull it's head out of it's own ass, forget the super bowl.

 

[EverydayImRusselin]

Funny I was thinking the same thing about the home record. That was the biggest let down of the game. As for the team "responding" since San Francisco. But they are going to need to respond for more than 1 game if the want to get to the big game. I'm really curious now how this is all going to play out. Even defensively, you had two end zone interceptions. What was scary for me is this could have been a lot worse, it was possible we could have got blown out.

Arizona had 300 yards passing plus the 100 we gave them in penalties. Mac strong said that penalties accounted for 8 of 15 or 16 first downs. Arizona has an amazing defense, but let's be honest, San Fran's defense is back to form, and Carolina has been good all season. We are going to have to figure this out.

The only thing I can think of offensively is the Seahawks wanted to do a Base vanilla offense in order to not "give anything away" for the playoffs, and it just backfired on them.

Arizona had 168 yards passing! Not to nitpick, but that is roughly half of what you said. This loss is in no way shape or form on the defense.

For the most part I agree except when we needed the stop the defense could not get it, as has been a pattern our defense gives up the lead late in the 4th qtr see, SF oss, see Indy loss. SO they do have culpability in this as well, does not matter how good you play in the first 45 minutes if you give it up in the final 15. Great defenses do not do that, they seal the deal when the offense gives them the lead. This team is built on defense not offense so it is on them too.

I look at it like this. The ultimate goal is to score/prevent points for the offense/defense. The defense faced 15 drives. 2 were end of half so toss those out. They allowed a score 4 times out of 13. The offense had 13 drives. They scored twice on those 13 drives. The defense was successful 9 times. The offense was successful twice.

Saying the defense didn't do it's job is like saying Romo blew it because he lost to Denver 51-48. Romo did great, the defense did terrible.

 

[hawkfan1975]

as soon as this game ended, i turned to my buddy and said, "i hate to be a cliche fan, but the refs screwed us" we get a lot of flack for still bringing up XL, but this was bad. the fumble that was ruled down was a fumble, as Kearly mentioned, if you "combine" the views, the guy is clearly not down. and we all know about the incompletion to seal it. this game just had a bad vibe the whole time.

were still ok

ah...no man. "show beyond a reasonable doubt to overturn". Even Pete said he looked as if he was down.
And same with the "ball hits arm or turf".

These items (refs, calls, etc.) are NOT why we lost. We lost because we did NOT convert any turnovers to TD's (offense).

Sorry.

 

[muxpux]

as soon as this game ended, i turned to my buddy and said, "i hate to be a cliche fan, but the refs screwed us" we get a lot of flack for still bringing up XL, but this was bad. the fumble that was ruled down was a fumble, as Kearly mentioned, if you "combine" the views, the guy is clearly not down. and we all know about the incompletion to seal it. this game just had a bad vibe the whole time.

were still ok

ah...no man. "show beyond a reasonable doubt to overturn". Even Pete said he looked as if he was down.
And same with the "ball hits arm or turf".

These items (refs, calls, etc.) are NOT why we lost. We lost because we did NOT convert any turnovers to TD's (offense).

Sorry.

its not an outright excuse obviously, but they were questionable. the fumble, it wasnt clear on any 1 angle, but putting the 2 together it was obvious. i guess yall are seeing something im not. and turf/arm?? i could swear if any part of the ball touches the ground before being caught its an incompletion... the rule states that the ball can touch the ground as long as it also touches a body part at the same time?

 

[Polaris]

as soon as this game ended, i turned to my buddy and said, "i hate to be a cliche fan, but the refs screwed us" we get a lot of flack for still bringing up XL, but this was bad. the fumble that was ruled down was a fumble, as Kearly mentioned, if you "combine" the views, the guy is clearly not down. and we all know about the incompletion to seal it. this game just had a bad vibe the whole time.

were still ok

ah...no man. "show beyond a reasonable doubt to overturn". Even Pete said he looked as if he was down.
And same with the "ball hits arm or turf".

These items (refs, calls, etc.) are NOT why we lost. We lost because we did NOT convert any turnovers to TD's (offense).

Sorry.

its not an outright excuse obviously, but they were questionable. the fumble, it wasnt clear on any 1 angle, but putting the 2 together it was obvious. i guess yall are seeing something im not. and turf/arm?? i could swear if any part of the ball touches the ground before being caught its an incompletion... the rule states that the ball can touch the ground as long as it also touches a body part at the same time?

Not only that but (regarding the psuedo-Int), it's a matter of simple physics. There is simply no way given the physical characteristics of human flesh, that a ball thrown at that angle could hit human tissue only and bounce the way it did. Just like I don't have to see a hammer fall after I drop it (in gravity) to know it's fallen, the same applies here.

What's more important on replay? The absolute technical letter of the law regarding replay or getting the darned call right?!